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Hi everyone. This is my first time posting a Revision thread on this website so please forgive and feel free to tell me if I do anything unorthodox. Still I’ll try my best to post what I found within the guidelines for vsbattles.
I may however need some help sorting out my tiers because I’m not overly familiar with the mathematical particulars involved. For now these are just wide guesses, they may be too high or too low, I’d very much like to discuss whether I’ve overestimated or underestimated anything.
Basically since Tohru and the Dragon Maid’s pages were last updated it seems a lot more has popped up in the story in terms of powers, progression and scale - in the main story and in the new game and in the character spinoffs. I’ve tried to collate as much of these as I found here. Mostly these will pertain to Tohru because if I had to list every power between every dragon I’d be here all week. Especially for Fafnir.
Preface: as we all know the humour in this series, is that the Dragons try to solve something using their outlandish powers but are convinced to do things the human way so they can fit-in better. As such if a dragon mentions an ability out of the blue that seems bizarre it’s usually because they can do this and are seriously suggesting this.
I’ll be sourcing scans from the Official English Translation, the Original Japanese Editions, and sometimes a fansub which is a much closer translation of the Japanese just for simplicity’s sake. Though if something is important I will translate from the Japanese myself.
Without further ado;
Lifting Strength:
(Upgrade to Class G+)
Tohru is not absolutely equal to Elma in physical strength, but she is consistently comparable to Elma and can overpower Elma physically via mana boost - as seen in the arm wrestling chapter and their various fights.
In a recent chapter Elma managed to grapple with the Harmony Faction matriarch Telne - who should be at least 5 times harder to grapple in strength than Kimun due to size alone and the nature of her power: Perception Control.
As seen here, Telne’s Dragon Form is 5x the size of Kimun’s (and easily as wide or wider when we see it). As we know applies to all the dragons: their physical strength and powers remain the same between their human and dragon shifted forms.
Telne’s specific power, perception control, allows Telne to focus her full strength across any distance and to an effect resembling, well, her perspective. It’s a really fun if fiddly mechanism.
It doesn’t just allow Telne to ignore distance between herself and her enemy, but to affect large swathes of cloud with a small finger and entire bodies with just her palms, and focus her strength through the visual perspective of her body. Amplifying both the scale of matter affected by her blows and possibly her own strength. This power is referred to as concept manipulation, granted to Telne from Gods who are the beings that created the Dragonmaid multiverse, but I’ll get more into that later. If all that makes any sense, lol.
To sum it up Telne’s got at least the equivalent strength of a giant Dragon 5x Kimun Kamui’s size, and Elma can grapple with the strength of a “giant” version of Telne. While Tohru can grapple with Elma.
Which, to my understanding, would probably upgrade to Class G for lifting strength.
Consolidating feat - Telne - Telne’s strength through this move is so vast that she can physically destroy Saitama; Japan, where the series is set, with a swipe of a single hand (Japanese) or a snap of her fingers (Official Eng). I’m not intricately sure how heavy Saitama is, even with it being an irl place, but being able to swipe it aside so easily through perspective control seems to line up with ‘the weight of largest man-made structures’, or possibly even heavier. If so, please tell me.
Another feat of Tohru’s is injuring Telne in a 1v1 fight. Tohru did not perform as well in their rematch because of the zoning power of Perspective Control keeping Tohru a distance away from her the entire fight, but this is also a display of Tohru’s striking strength in being able to injure Telne as such with her bare punches, which seems to confuse Telne how Tohru managed it
Consolidating feat - Elma can dive to a depth of 300km deep in the ocean as her idea of having fun (presumably on her world, since our oceans don’t even go that deep).
On its own living at depths isn’t lifting strength because your body is designed for that depth - much like we don’t technically lift the “weight” of our atmosphere whenever we move but we simply live squashed under it all the time. But being able to freely dive to that depth from the surface, move around in that pressure, and also return to the surface with no ill effects, can be seen as a display of lifting strength done as your body can operate the same at both pressures (https://vsbattles.com/threads/ocean-pressure.126476/).
In this above thread it’s postulated that doing such at the depth of the Mariana Trench would be indicative of Class K or M lifting strength.
The bottom of the Mariana Trench is a mere 16,000 PSI, whereas the pressure diving to a depth of 300km below water would be upwards of 436,770 PSI
Also Elma surviving reentry cause I thought it was cute
Higher (?) - Tohru can now block a punch from Lucoa, who has the equivalent strength of a dragon so large it is impossible to measure
Game profile (sourced from the guidebook) saying that the size of Lucoa’s Dragon Form is incalculable
Guidebook going on to say that Lucoa’s form deliberately never fits in view on any one side of the planet (her body, when shown, always stretches over the horizon or forms a mobius-strip-like shape so we can never see her from one end to the other).
In effect although we do not know Lucoa’s true size as it is incalculable it is likely that of a planetary-sized being given it always stretches at least over the curve of the earth.
We can observe that Lucoa easily dwarfs the size of many mountains, meaning by being able to hold and push-back against one of Lucoa’s blows Tohru may even surpass Class T strength by this feat
Note: unlike most Tohru feats this is an example of Tohru trying her absolute hardest. She famously has never been able to beat or harm Lucoa, and Tohru pushing back against Lucoa’s fist is narratively within the chapter an example of Tohru having become much stronger since the old times, a plot beat that’s very important in the story and brought up by Fafnir/Lucoa many times. Lucoa gives a monologue before this blow how Tohru needs to become stronger to handle future threats. Meaning this isn’t a fluke feat or the author forgetting scale but an example of Tohru’s growth - to be able to fight back on Lucoa’s level for the first time ever.
Speed:
(Upgrade to FTL)
Note: the story here is set early in the series before Fafnir is better acquainted with the human world and aware of human limits
In a story from his spinoff, while playing with Kanna/Saikawa, Fafnir is bored at their slow human speeds playing tag and tells Kanna to move faster than the speed of light so he can have fun catching her.
Notably in the original jap translation there is no “try moving”, Fafnir simply commands Kanna to move, which also seems to fit with the series staple of “dragon expects incredible dragon-like capabilities out of mundane human experiences” and quells the possibility he is only telling Kanna to try moving that fast rather than to actually move that fast.
Fafnir is by far one of the smartest dragons to the point Tohru consults him for wisdom, training and advice, Tohru of whom other dragons like Kanna/Ilulu consider a genius for being a self-taught expert on typically human/wizard magicks. This statement suggests Fafnir casually assumes Kanna can move this fast, that Fafnir knows he himself can move this fast, and that by comparison (as Tohru is faster than Fafnir by the guidebook):
(Fifth Stat Down)
Tohru can move Faster than Light as well
Consolidating feats - several times Tohru reacts to and dodges Kanna’s electric attacks, dodges lightning while flying within clouds and outspeeds lightning strikes as she fights
I may however need some help sorting out my tiers because I’m not overly familiar with the mathematical particulars involved. For now these are just wide guesses, they may be too high or too low, I’d very much like to discuss whether I’ve overestimated or underestimated anything.
Basically since Tohru and the Dragon Maid’s pages were last updated it seems a lot more has popped up in the story in terms of powers, progression and scale - in the main story and in the new game and in the character spinoffs. I’ve tried to collate as much of these as I found here. Mostly these will pertain to Tohru because if I had to list every power between every dragon I’d be here all week. Especially for Fafnir.
Preface: as we all know the humour in this series, is that the Dragons try to solve something using their outlandish powers but are convinced to do things the human way so they can fit-in better. As such if a dragon mentions an ability out of the blue that seems bizarre it’s usually because they can do this and are seriously suggesting this.
I’ll be sourcing scans from the Official English Translation, the Original Japanese Editions, and sometimes a fansub which is a much closer translation of the Japanese just for simplicity’s sake. Though if something is important I will translate from the Japanese myself.
Without further ado;
Lifting Strength:
(Upgrade to Class G+)
Tohru is not absolutely equal to Elma in physical strength, but she is consistently comparable to Elma and can overpower Elma physically via mana boost - as seen in the arm wrestling chapter and their various fights.
In a recent chapter Elma managed to grapple with the Harmony Faction matriarch Telne - who should be at least 5 times harder to grapple in strength than Kimun due to size alone and the nature of her power: Perception Control.
As seen here, Telne’s Dragon Form is 5x the size of Kimun’s (and easily as wide or wider when we see it). As we know applies to all the dragons: their physical strength and powers remain the same between their human and dragon shifted forms.
Telne’s specific power, perception control, allows Telne to focus her full strength across any distance and to an effect resembling, well, her perspective. It’s a really fun if fiddly mechanism.
It doesn’t just allow Telne to ignore distance between herself and her enemy, but to affect large swathes of cloud with a small finger and entire bodies with just her palms, and focus her strength through the visual perspective of her body. Amplifying both the scale of matter affected by her blows and possibly her own strength. This power is referred to as concept manipulation, granted to Telne from Gods who are the beings that created the Dragonmaid multiverse, but I’ll get more into that later. If all that makes any sense, lol.
To sum it up Telne’s got at least the equivalent strength of a giant Dragon 5x Kimun Kamui’s size, and Elma can grapple with the strength of a “giant” version of Telne. While Tohru can grapple with Elma.
Which, to my understanding, would probably upgrade to Class G for lifting strength.
Consolidating feat - Telne - Telne’s strength through this move is so vast that she can physically destroy Saitama; Japan, where the series is set, with a swipe of a single hand (Japanese) or a snap of her fingers (Official Eng). I’m not intricately sure how heavy Saitama is, even with it being an irl place, but being able to swipe it aside so easily through perspective control seems to line up with ‘the weight of largest man-made structures’, or possibly even heavier. If so, please tell me.
Another feat of Tohru’s is injuring Telne in a 1v1 fight. Tohru did not perform as well in their rematch because of the zoning power of Perspective Control keeping Tohru a distance away from her the entire fight, but this is also a display of Tohru’s striking strength in being able to injure Telne as such with her bare punches, which seems to confuse Telne how Tohru managed it
Consolidating feat - Elma can dive to a depth of 300km deep in the ocean as her idea of having fun (presumably on her world, since our oceans don’t even go that deep).
On its own living at depths isn’t lifting strength because your body is designed for that depth - much like we don’t technically lift the “weight” of our atmosphere whenever we move but we simply live squashed under it all the time. But being able to freely dive to that depth from the surface, move around in that pressure, and also return to the surface with no ill effects, can be seen as a display of lifting strength done as your body can operate the same at both pressures (https://vsbattles.com/threads/ocean-pressure.126476/).
In this above thread it’s postulated that doing such at the depth of the Mariana Trench would be indicative of Class K or M lifting strength.
The bottom of the Mariana Trench is a mere 16,000 PSI, whereas the pressure diving to a depth of 300km below water would be upwards of 436,770 PSI
Also Elma surviving reentry cause I thought it was cute
Higher (?) - Tohru can now block a punch from Lucoa, who has the equivalent strength of a dragon so large it is impossible to measure
Game profile (sourced from the guidebook) saying that the size of Lucoa’s Dragon Form is incalculable
Guidebook going on to say that Lucoa’s form deliberately never fits in view on any one side of the planet (her body, when shown, always stretches over the horizon or forms a mobius-strip-like shape so we can never see her from one end to the other).
In effect although we do not know Lucoa’s true size as it is incalculable it is likely that of a planetary-sized being given it always stretches at least over the curve of the earth.
We can observe that Lucoa easily dwarfs the size of many mountains, meaning by being able to hold and push-back against one of Lucoa’s blows Tohru may even surpass Class T strength by this feat
Note: unlike most Tohru feats this is an example of Tohru trying her absolute hardest. She famously has never been able to beat or harm Lucoa, and Tohru pushing back against Lucoa’s fist is narratively within the chapter an example of Tohru having become much stronger since the old times, a plot beat that’s very important in the story and brought up by Fafnir/Lucoa many times. Lucoa gives a monologue before this blow how Tohru needs to become stronger to handle future threats. Meaning this isn’t a fluke feat or the author forgetting scale but an example of Tohru’s growth - to be able to fight back on Lucoa’s level for the first time ever.
Speed:
(Upgrade to FTL)
Note: the story here is set early in the series before Fafnir is better acquainted with the human world and aware of human limits
In a story from his spinoff, while playing with Kanna/Saikawa, Fafnir is bored at their slow human speeds playing tag and tells Kanna to move faster than the speed of light so he can have fun catching her.
Notably in the original jap translation there is no “try moving”, Fafnir simply commands Kanna to move, which also seems to fit with the series staple of “dragon expects incredible dragon-like capabilities out of mundane human experiences” and quells the possibility he is only telling Kanna to try moving that fast rather than to actually move that fast.
Fafnir is by far one of the smartest dragons to the point Tohru consults him for wisdom, training and advice, Tohru of whom other dragons like Kanna/Ilulu consider a genius for being a self-taught expert on typically human/wizard magicks. This statement suggests Fafnir casually assumes Kanna can move this fast, that Fafnir knows he himself can move this fast, and that by comparison (as Tohru is faster than Fafnir by the guidebook):
(Fifth Stat Down)
Tohru can move Faster than Light as well
Consolidating feats - several times Tohru reacts to and dodges Kanna’s electric attacks, dodges lightning while flying within clouds and outspeeds lightning strikes as she fights
I appreciate the support you’ve all been showing me so far
