Dragon Ball Z Speed Upgrades

[PaChi2]

"Wait.

You mean to say that Goku is FTL when he is barely stronger than Captain Ginyu?

When even Base Freeza's Death Ball is not that fast, even though he is miles ahead of either Goku or Ginyu at this point?"

Technically, frieza's death ball was beyond casual and against a planet were the one with the highest powerlevel was... Bardock at 10k?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't even have to state how faulty this is. There is literally no feat in Dragon Ball above Freeza's Supernova which is 0.250656257886914591c

Yes, 0.25c.

But isn't Freeza miles ahead of Raditz? Why is he only 0.25c?

Because feats matter more than upgrading people insanely through multipliers. This is literally calc stacking but with stated multipliers, to somehow manage to overhype a 0.14c calc all the way to 224c

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Wait.
You mean to say that Goku is FTL when he is barely stronger than Captain Ginyu?

When even Base Freeza's Death Ball is not that fast, even though he is miles ahead of either Goku or Ginyu at this point?"

Technically, frieza's death ball was beyond casual and against a planet were the one with the highest powerlevel was... Bardock at 10k?

I guess that means Bardock is High 5-A, yeah?

Freeza's Death Ball is casual but that is a lazy excuse. It is as fast as it is, and none of the Saiyans and Soldiers were capable of reacting to it. They were all literally frozen as it approached them.

Including Bardock who is >>>>>>>>>> Raditz.

Which shows how much feats matter more than scaling.

 

[Dark649]

Yes, i doubt what will happen if we use the same discussion for ap, which happened and Kep suggested for High 4-C Frieza.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Frankly I am open to just stop using Kaioken Multipliers anymore. People abuse it way too much.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yet when I say it, I'm annoying ovo jk.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also nobody is getting 5-A cause even with Kaioken multipliers you still get Kaioken x2 Goku being way above Ginyu (And by multiplying the quantifiable number we have, he is only >>>x8 Baseline planet level).

Then High 5-A with Freeza's first forms. Second and Third forms stay at High 5-A, though I am fine with Low 4-C final form.

 

[PaChi2]

"I guess that means Bardock is High 5-A, yeah?

That's not what I meant, I meant that Frieza didnt need to use his 530k power to destroy anything, anything beyond 50k would yield similar results (planet going kabuum and none capable of stopping it)

Freeza's Death Ball is casual but that is a lazy excuse. It is as fast as it is, and none of the Saiyans and Soldiers were capable of reacting to it. They were all literally frozen as it approached them.

That doesnt need to be because of speed, tho. Would you try to escape from a tsunami heading your way? That attack was 100% death to them even if the run because it would hit the planet

Including Bardock who is >>>>>>>>>> Raditz.

Which shows how much feats matter more than scaling."

Im not disagreeing with you, for the record. No need to be so condescendent.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I'm pretty sure there's a calc on NF that places the destruction of Namek at the very high end of High 5-A (Like, literally just below Low 4-C), which would scale to Final Form Frieza since he survived it while already mortally wounded to an almost hilarious degree.

So Low 4-C Final Form Frieza is fine.

 

[Antvasima]

We will likely need that somebody creates a calculation blog that explains this, so we have something to link to in the character profile speed ratings.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

He would only be receiving a small portion of the explosion given his surface area.

 

[PaChi2]

Im done with this.

Whatever the rest decide I will follow. Im tired of dragon ball.

 

[Antvasima]

In case it is used that is.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Just checking the wield for the First Form Freeza supernova calc, that value multiplied by x20 is 1.46138572e41. Which is barely Small Star level.

So that's where Final Form Freeza when not suppressed and Super Saiyan 1 Goku goes.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The thing about Kaioken multiplier scaling is this:

Use Kaiokens only to scale from quantifiable calc numbers. Not power levels.

 

[Kepekley23]

Goku already stated Freeza completely held back his power in fear of getting caught in the explosion. Blowing up Namek is not anywhere near his full destructive capacity.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The discussion was related to his durability as a mutilated corpse. While the feat is impressive, it's not nearly as much once you consider surface area.

 

[Kepekley23]

Using Kaioken with calc numbers is what I literally did, though. And I still got 114c.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You also used power levels and ignored the contradictions that you get when you disregard the numbers on Freeza's feat.

 

[Kepekley23]

When did I use power levels...? All I used was "Character A > Character B, therefore Character A = Character B in speed".

Okay, I admit, I did use power levels near the end, but ignoring that instance still yields 114c.

If you take Freeza's Supernova speed at face-value, you'd have to ignore everything else. Not good.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What isn't good is blatantly ignoring that the feats don't match up with the multipler stacking being done here, which ends up with things like Faster-than-light Ginyu and 114c Freeza.

It is a contradictory way of doing things.

 

[Dark649]

Matthew is right since Azathoth disagreed with the backward scaling if i remember, the only legit feat about Z which we can use are this:

- Piccolo Relativistic 5-B beam.

- Frieza High 5-A+ Supernova and speed.

- Shin High 4-C feat of creating celestial bodies.

- Super Perfect Cell 4-B feat.

That's it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

When does Shin state he can create Celestial bodies?

 

[Kepekley23]

What is wrong with FTL Ginyu? KKx4 Goku is already 2/3 of the SoL

I have done no multiplier stacking. Kaioken multipliers are within the rules.

 

[Dark649]

When does Shin state he can create Celestial bodies?

I heard that the Kaioshins are responsable for the creation of the celestial bodies in space.

 

[Kepekley23]

Anyway, FTL Freeza Saga is self-evident via calculations alone.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

FTL Ginyu is straight up a contradiction.

 

[Kepekley23]

Ginyu > Relativistic speeds at the very least

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with high-end Relativistic Ginyu.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Anyway, FTL Freeza Saga is self-evident via calculations alone.

There's no FTL calcs putting Frieza Saga, or anything in Z, at FTL that are in acceptance. Now I don't mind KK putting them here, as it's reasonable, and scaling works here, but showings of anything above .25c are nonexistent until Super.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I honestly was fine with Kaioken multipliers when Piccolo was Sub-Relativistic. It worked decently. But Relativistic Piccolo going through linear scaling creates a can of worms of problem.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Why can we not just use Kaioken to multiply the calcs we have? We are making this more difficult than it should be.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Oh, I should probably mention that I'm okay with BoZ Piccolo and co. being .14c and up. It's, as Matt said, KK that makes things problematic.

Thing is, if we did ditch KK, pretty sure a lot of speed ratings would be affected, with a lot of FTL characters not being that anymore.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Being problematic does not mean we should just axe it. We just have to simply sort things out.

 

[Kepekley23]

Anyway, FTL Freeza Saga is self-evident via calculations alone.

There's no FTL calcs putting Frieza Saga, or anything in Z, at FTL that are in acceptance. Now I don't mind KK putting them here, as it's reasonable, and scaling works here, but showings of anything above .25c are nonexistent until Super.

Pretty sure there is a calc putting Freeza at 10c.

 

[Dark649]

Pretty sure there is a calc putting Freeza at 10c.

Could have been an Toei anime one.

 

[Kepekley23]

Actually, the 10c is a Kaioken calc scaling from Freeza's Supernova. The problem is, both calcs are Kaioken multipliers of a pre-existing calc. If you use Piccolo's feat, you end up with 100c Freeza. If you use the Supernova, you end up with 10c.

Maybe we should do an average of both results, which results in 62c Freeza

OvO

 

[Dark649]

There will be two possible ways in the future:

- Keep the Kaioken multipliers, which will upgrade the higher tiered characters speed.

- Disgregard it, which will initially upgrade the Sub-Rela+ ones, but downgrade the higher tiered ones like FTL+ Frieza.