Dragon Ball Super. To be canon, or not to be?

[Nullflowerblush]

Dragon Ball Super exists in two separate, undoubtedly distinct iterations, both adapted from the general outlines cobbled together by Akira Toriyama, but interpreted and produced by two very different entities, being Toyotaro and Toei Animation, heads of the manga and the anime, respectively. Which iteration is canon? In the past, the anime was accepted as the main canon, hence why pages originating from the Z manga have keys originating from the Super anime, like Krillin, Piccolo, Frieza, etc., and why First Form Frieza is High 5-A. However, in recent years, the Super manga has been used as an example in discussions regarding the canon—cosmology threads come to mind immediately—and abilities originating from the manga have begun to latch onto characters dating as far as back as the original Dragon Ball. That begs the question, which version of Super exists in the main canon, which version trickles down into the original series?

Or, is this a BS "both versions are canon, despite their differences, and both versions trickle down" situation, because Toriyama happened to leave both entities with his notes?

 

[Hasty12345]

another example is manga (chou) benefiting from Toei products like GT and movies in terms of cosmology

 

[Nullflowerblush]

That is because the TV anime exists parallel to the canon through Dr. Slump and GT. And, as per the as of Super, outdated laws of time travel, each timeline apparently shares identical cosmology.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

They are both canonically follow ups to the original manga but separate canons from each other.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

So both versions of Broly are canon to the original series? And both versions of Super Hero? And the "Future" Trunks Saga? And Bardock?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

They are both canonically follow ups to the original manga but separate canons from each other.

I thought the anime was more canonically since the manga is just an adaptation of the anime lol

 

[Nullflowerblush]

the manga what now

 

[Hasty12345]

That is because the TV anime exists parallel to the canon through Dr. Slump and GT. And, as per the as of Super, outdated laws of time travel, each timeline apparently shares identical cosmology.

and why are we saying references make things canon?

 

[CloverDragon03]

They're both canon, taking place after the Buu Saga, but existing in their own separate canons

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

They're both canon, taking place after the Buu Saga, but existing in their own separate canons

Bro, what if the manga arcs are adapted for the anime, does the anime remain canon?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Bro, what if the manga arcs are adapted for the anime, does the anime remain canon?

The anime's canonicity would remain unchanged

 

[Nullflowerblush]

They're both canon, taking place after the Buu Saga, but existing in their own separate canons

Right, but which canon is the main canon?

and why are we saying references make things canon?

Idk ask the thread people

 

[CloverDragon03]

Right, but which canon is the main canon?

Neither

 

[Nullflowerblush]

So both are fair game? Definitively?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

They're both worth indexing, but indexing separate from each other. Original Manga and the DBS movies seem canon to both timelines though is more so advertised as follow ups to the Anime versions. Though I recall DBS Super Hero deviates from the manga given Vegeta is learning Ultra Instinct while DBS Manga has Vegeta learning Ultra Ego instead of Ultra Instinct.

I really don't get why this is so difficult to understand.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Vegeta is not learning Ultra Instinct in the movie, no. He's doing the same thing in both versions: trying to replicate Jiren's fighting style

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I really don't get why this is so difficult to understand.

Because Kid Goku has Blessed, mainly.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

And, like, the 2-C Universe 7 threads from earlier in the year that were founded nearly entirely upon Frieza training in a Room of Spirit and Time outside of the universe.

 

[Thelastmlg]

I think there is no “main canon” anymore, they are both just distinct official interpretations of a sequel to dbz, they are both canon to the main story but distinct ideas.

i think the idea behind them is that there is no “official sequel”, is up to the fans to choose which one they prefer, they share rhe main concept behind “super” but neither are more “super” then the other

honestly, they might as well be alternate timelines that share a similar past, with their future being slighty different.

for now is better for them to be treated completely distinct, whatever happens to the anime cosmology, doesn’t affect the manga, vice versa

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Honestly there should just be a separate tabber for abilities from "different canons". It's kinda BS we can't index this stuff due to some weird canon and that there's not enough differences to make another profile.

Because Kid Goku has Blessed, mainly.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

like the snydercut...?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

like the snydercut...?

Maybe? I guess something that could be optional to use in matches that would apply to all of his keys.

 

[Omegabronic]

both are equaly canon to the of db manga, but aren't canon to eachother

 

[StekFence]

Wasn’t there scenes from Kai in the super anime?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Wasn’t there scenes from Kai in the super anime?

Yes. Buuhan would be 2-C if Kai was used as the canon to super anime

 

[StekFence]

Ok, so how is Kai canon to super anime, but also the og manga also canon to it

 

[Omegabronic]

Ok, so how is Kai canon to super anime, but also the og manga also canon to it

No, currently kai is not considered canon to super, both dbs manga and anime are considered canon to the manga

 

[StekFence]

Huh. Can u link the thread when they accepted what’s canon?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Ok, so how is Kai canon to super anime, but also the og manga also canon to it

Kai isn't considered canon but I'm pretty sure it can be used as supporting evidence.

 

[Omegabronic]

Huh. Can u link the thread when they accepted what’s canon?

as @DarkDragonMedeus he is the guy i mostly hear this from every time someone brings this question up

Kai isn't considered canon but I'm pretty sure it can be used as supporting evidence.

iirc we treat it the same as we treat the otiginal toei anime, as in, not canon at all

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I find the concept of two valid canons of the same branch (OG manga) strange as they can't coexist at all, but if that's how this site considers things, then ok. Though if one were to be picked as "main canon", it'd clearly be the Anime and Movies.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Kai should be canon Dragon Ball Super. Not the manga.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Kai should be canon Dragon Ball Super. Not the manga.

I have the same idea about it, since Kai is a manga adaptation without filler or any special episode.

 

[Nierre]

Both equal, both canon, both valid

 

[Omegabronic]

I have the same idea about it, since Kai is a manga adaptation without filler or any special episode.

It has fillers

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Kai should be Canon so super, and it considered as such in several other forums

• Super has Kai flashbacks, even as gats as the ToP which should have been the nail on the coffin
• had Kai only characters like Gregory and frog Ginyu and anime only events like bulma-ginyu body switch which happened in Kai but not the Manga,

The only contradiction is a completely minor retcon on how hell looks like, which is easily passed as an outlier or even a retcon . DBS anime contradicts the manga far more than that anyway


The very fact that it uses Kai flashbacks in it's canon episodes should speak to the canonicity of kai

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Kai should be Canon so super, and it considered as such in several other forums

• Super has Kai flashbacks, even as gats as the ToP which should have been the nail on the coffin
• had Kai only characters like Gregory and frog Ginyu and anime only events like bulma-ginyu body switch which happened in Kai but not the Manga,

The only contradiction is a completely minor retcon on how hell looks like, which is easily passed as an outlier or even a retcon . DBS anime contradicts the manga far more than that anyway


The very fact that it uses Kai flashbacks in it's canon episodes should speak to the canonicity of kai

I think that a crt for this should soon be created

 

[Nierre]

had Kai only characters like Gregory and frog Ginyu and anime only events like bulma-ginyu body switch which happened in Kai but not the Manga,

GREGORY IS KAI ONLY????

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

GREGORY IS KAI ONLY????

No, he's from Z too, now he's part of super.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

GREGORY IS KAI ONLY????

Original Z and Kai yea, but the OG Z isn't really even taken into account when we are talking about this. It's however not in the manga,