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Dragon Ball Super speed upgrade.

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No need to reach me. I already gave my opinion. And I'm actually with Bruce. This isn't a speed feat. It's a range feat, and the fact that it's omnidirectional proves it. If he say, held his hand out and nullified a beam that would do the same thing, then yeah. That's a speed feat. But releasing a nullifying wave to cancel out another wave is a range and AP feat. Heck. This is the original feat that gave him Universal power
 
@Cal Preventing an explosion that can reach the universe almost immediately before it even reaches past Earth is a speed feat.

The explosion travelling in an omnidirectional path does now take away from the fact that it is capable of traveling a certain distance under a certain timeframe.

The fact that he reacted to explosion, performed an action and prevented it from accelerating throughout the universe would require speed to scale.

The issue is not that SSJRyu1's proposal isn't a speed feat, because it is. The issue is whether or not SSJ1Ryu's proposal actually happened. Which is what I am trying to bring up.
 
Let me illustrate my point one more time.

There are two possible interpretations for this scene:

1. Beerus started nullifying the energy right after the explosion detonated, resulting in SSJ1Ryu's calc being legitamate.

2. Beerus was already nullifying the energy prior to the detonation. Making this feat unquantifiable and vastly slower.

Which of these two options, after watching the scene and reading SSJRyu1's points do the staff view as more likely? This is what I am trying to ask.
 
I would also appreciate input regarding this.
 
I'd also like to state that we don't do this for any other franchise. Scaling an induced explosion speed to a character. Yeah, the digimon thing, but two wrongs don't make a right.

If we're gonna start doing this, then all of tier 2 should be immesurable due to their attacks destroying spacetime in one shot.
 
I agree about the two wrongs do not make a right point, but again, we need more input.
 
@Cal if you can say that different examples of us scaling this way, do not automatically legitimize the scaling of it in this case. Then it could also be said that different examples of us not scaling this way wouldn't automatically legitimize not scaling it in this case. Such as saying "we don't do this for other franchises."

The blast travels a certain distance in a certain timeframe. The explosion has a speed, regardless of the omnidirectional path it travels this distance at.

Beerus's speed exceeded that of the explosion in SSJRyu1's proposal. He reacted while the blast was accelerating. And performed an action to prevent its course before it could reach its intended destination. Or even billions of lightyears close to it for that matter.

So once again. SSJ1Ryu's proposal being a speed feat or not isn't the importatn question at hand. It's whether the proposal actually happened.
 
Ryu, I don't think I'm explaining the gravity of this well. We accept this, and every character in tier say 6 is at least MHS. Every tier 5 is in the relativistic range. Every character who can destroy a solar system is instantly FTL+-MFTL. Every MSS-Galaxy-Low MG character is instantly high end MFTL at least. Every character in the Mid/High MG to Univeral range is very high MFTL+. Every High 3-A character is infinite speed. Everyone above that is immesurable to omipresent to irrelevant. All because they see their attacks through. This goes through, and AP basically becomes speed. And considering we have subsonic low 2-C's, that becomes a problem.
 
This is not saying that Beerus is fast because he can make an attack that destroys the universe immediately. It's the fact that he outpaced, reacted to and directly exceeded the speed of an explosion that can travel the universe in such short timeframes. We have calcs of characters outrunning explosions and the such. This feat is much more comparable to that than what you are saying.
 
It's not really different, because he's reacting to what I just described. And the characters outrunning explosions are just normal explosions. Nothing different that bullets, lightning, or real light. This explosion fits into what I described above.
 
Hmm. That could become a very serious problem. In most fiction, attack potency and speed are kept separate.
 
If Beerus simply made an attack and the universe was immediately destroyed then yes this shouldn't scale to speed.

However that isn't quite what happens. There is an explosion that has repeatedly been stated capable of traveling the universe in a ludicrously short timeframe.

Beerus then reacts to this explosion as it is occuring, outpaces it and prevents its course. The fact that the explosion is on a grander scale or has some differences to a real life explosion, does not change the fact that this is a speed feat. And one akin to outrunning an explosion. Or dodging an explosive beam or energy attack.
 
Ryukama said:
Let me illustrate my point one more time.
There are two possible interpretations for this scene:

1. Beerus started nullifying the energy right after the explosion detonated, resulting in SSJ1Ryu's calc being legitamate.

2. Beerus was already nullifying the energy prior to the detonation. Making this feat unquantifiable and vastly slower.

Which of these two options, after watching the scene and reading SSJRyu1's points do the staff view as more likely? This is what I am trying to ask.
Click to expand...
What Ryu is proposing is the only way to truly decide if this feat is legit or not. I can't really say since either one of his intrupretation of this feat could be right.

All this argument back and forth isn't making much sense since this is obviously a speed feat not matter how you look at it.
 
Well, anyway, feel free to ask the other administrators, moderators, and calculation group members about weighing in, in their message walls.
 
Ryu. You're stating the effect to the cause of something that you just stated shouldn't be put to speed.

That's the thing. The calc does work on paper. It is technically a speed feat. Then again, a calc of Richard Watterso causing the collapse of the fabric universe in the time of a pizza delivery and his family reacting to it is technically a speed feat and would work on paper.
 
Cal, you're stating that a feat where someone outruns an explosion isn't an explosion outrunning feat. And said that a blast traveling a certain distance over time in a different path "proves" that it didn't cross a distance over a period of time.

Once again, this isn't Beerus makes an attack, universe immediately gets destroyed. Therefore speed.

This is Beerus outrunning and reacting to an explosion. Essentially he is dodging his own attack that possesses a certain speed.

This is not just scaling speed from AP and AoE.
 
Ok so Beerus manages to nullify an explosion before it was able to reach him (I guess). And I am assuming that he is like a Universe's length away from it. So the explosion is very fast, but Beerus still had to nullify it after it crossed a certain amount of distance (which means Beerus cannot be scaled to the explosions speed) you would need to do like explosion distance/speed it had to cross = timeframe Beerus had to nullify it and finally the amount of movement Beerus done/timeframe and that should be his speed. Since we are dealing with lightears and not meters it can make this speed feat not really seem like much of it at all.
 
@AMM, actually, Beerus is close to the initial explosion.

@Ryu. This isn't some normal, run-of-the-mill explosion that follows the formula. It's one that "immediately" destroys a universe. And it is scaling from AP and AoE. The attack was explicitly stated to destroy a universe, as people have been so kind to inform me. And Beerus has universal range (and AP), due to this very feat. What I'm understanding is that this is the equivalent of a bomb going off and raising hands in defense. Heck, we don't even see Beerus nullifying it, and the light clearly engulfs Earth.
 
Yeah I gotta agree with Ryu on that for sure, if you can outrun an explosion that can engulf the Universe in a short time, logically you are faster than it and it can scale.

For example if Beerus did not nullify the attack and just Universe busted, then it would be AP only, or if you reality warp a Universe away, that is AP only, but since he both unleashes a confirmed immediate Universe buster explosion, and then outpaces it nullifying the explosion before it can even reach Earth, he logically is faster than said explosion.
 
@Cal it's still an explosion that is capable of "engulfing the universe" almost immediately. Yes the explosion itself was caused by Beerus's massive strength, however that does not mean he didn't react to and outpace the explosion itself.

And I have no idea what you mean by "raising hands in defense." He reacted to the explosion, and directly stopped it before it could travel past the earth.
 
I agree with Ryu, I thought it was common knowledge that reacting to an explosion before/after it travels x distance is a speed feat.
 
I'm just saying it's the equivalent of it. He knew his and Goku's power, and when the result came, he nullified the energy somehow. We don't know how he did it at all. We next thing we see after the explosion and all the non-factors are done talking, Beerus is just standing there casually and Goku...isn't.
 
@Cal It doesn't matter how he nullified it. The fact that he was able to do that, process the thought of doing it, and using whatever means he did to do it, is at the very least a reactionary feat.
 
Here's an analogy. I'm going to not use DB characters, because it's DB.


A bomb is there. Everyone is freaking out and shoves it down our throats that it's about to destroy the universe. Although everyone gives their best efforts to stop it, the bomb goes off. However, a hero puts a forcefield around the bomb right after it goes off. Someone states that this is REALLY high end MFTL+. That's this situation right here, correct?
 
@Cal no. He reacted to the explosion and prevented it from traveling.

However it seems you are busy fabricating these new reasons that this feat invalid. Such as first stating it's a range feat only, then that it's scaling AP to speed, then that we don't know how he nullified it, and now that it isn't comparable to any other explosion outrunning feat.

Instead of focussing on and responding to other, far more legitimate criticisms people have towards this. Like me suspecting SSJRyu1 has a presumptuous interpretation of the scene. Or AMM saying that the calc itself is flawed and not that impressive.
 
Fabrication is strong and harsh, man. Uncalled for. Most of my points were interrelated up until the nullification. Regardless, considering how I'm getting nowhere, I'll drop this, because I don't wanna upset anyone. Sorry if I did. I'm just REALLY tired of all these DB upgrade threads, considering there have been like 5 in the past 2 weeks.

I'm not sure how to interpret all of the other criticisms.
 
@Cal By "fabricating" I merely meant "making" or "creating." However I am sorry you felt offended and admittedly I should have had the foresight to use a word with less negative connotations. My apologies.

I still appreciate your input anyways, even if I don't agree with it and think there are other more important points. I have no hard feelings and I sincerely hope you do not as well, as I do think you're a nice and helpful member.
 
No hard feelings, man. You're still in my top 5 users, sitting up there with Azzy and Mighty. Water under the bridge. By the way, by criticisms, I meant of the blog. Not of me. And thanks for the compliment.

Back to the discussion though. Like I stated before, the calc on paper is correct, but Ryu's point about knowing in advance is likely correct, but could still result in a small upgrade. and if AMM is correct about him not scaling to the explosion speed at all is correct, then that effectively shuts down everything.
 
@Cal Wow. I am truly flattered to hear that man. Thank you very much. I'm glad there is no personal conflict and we can settle our differences like civilized people.

But yes back to the thread. Maybe AMM could do his own calculation of this and have the calc team evaluate that.
 
Ryukama said:
@Cal Wow. I am truly flattered to hear that man. Thank you very much. I'm glad there is no personal conflict and we can settle our differences like civilized people.
Click to expand...
Honestly that's one of my fav things about this site. People do not rage about differing opinions
 
The real cal howard said:
No hard feelings, man. You're still in my top 5 users, sitting up there with Azzy and Mighty. Water under the bridge. By the way, by criticisms, I meant of the blog. Not of me. And thanks for the compliment.
Click to expand...
What am I, chopped liver? XD loljk
 
The real cal howard said:
AMM doing his own calc would be great, if that were okay with him.
Click to expand...
Before I do that, I would like to make all variables in the calc I make not be unknown. E.G knowing the exact distance crossed in x timeframe etc
 
@AMM sadly we do not know the distance Beerus crossed at all. All we know (if we are to taken interpretation 1 of this scene) is that he did it before this explosion that could reach a universe almost immediately reached past earth.

What this entails or how we could quantifiy it, I am not sure. I'd think perhaps it could account for at least reaction timing.
 
Wait, didn't Beerus show his Nullification again when back on Earth, Goku just threw a blast and Beerus stopped it and and it disappeared, if that's how it works it should be a reaction feat, it's like grabbing a bullet and Making it disappear. That's likely how he did nullify the universal explosion.
 
Master Xar said:
Wait, didn't Beerus show his Nullification again when back on Earth, Goku just threw a blast and Beerus stopped it and and it disappeared, if that's how it works it should be a reaction feat, it's like grabbing a bullet and Making it disappear. That's likely how he did nullify the universal explosion.
Click to expand...
Not the same. He knew exactly what would happen, planned the fight out to test Goku, and nullified an omnidirectional blast at its source.
 
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