Dragon Ball Super Anime Scaling Issue Discussion

[FireSwordHero]

This was originally going to be a discussion on speed stats being outdated and how some characters aren't scaled up properly, but when looking through wiki articles, I came across something of a paradox when it comes to the scaling and discussion of who's superior to whom, so im going to bring it up now.

So, anyone who watches DBS knows that Goku is inferior to Beerus right? Like thats a given considering both how the latter is represented and how the authors clearly state multiple times that Beerus is still ahead of Goku no matter what transformation the Saiyan gets.

However, looking at the profiles for each character, somethings aren't adding up. But lets go over each key/profile piece by piece.

So, MUI Goku is about equal to Limit's Broken Jiren, who is naturally superior to his base self. This same base self is regarded in power as the following.

Simply by walking, he was able to shake the World of Void[1], which was completely unaffected by the fight between three Gods of Destruction[2], with a fight between two Gods of Destruction being taboo[3] since it will result in the destruction of two universes[4] (each containing three separate space-times). The strength of his aura shocked Beerus[1], and Whis stated that Jiren’s power was like a God of Destruction, or perhaps even beyond it[5]. The force of his ki alone was going to crush all members of Universe 11 - including Belmod - as stated by Universe 11's Kaioshin, and Belmod seemingly acknowledged this by saying that he didn’t care as long as Universe 11 ended up winning the Tournament of Power)

It should also be noted that Jiren was considered as a candidate for the God of Destruction, but refused for personal reasons so it was passed onto Toppo. Considering that, plus the fact that Jiren power was capable of crushing Belmond, Jiren should be equal or superior to Belmond.

Going over to Belmond's profile, here's what is stated about his power:

Should be comparable or superior to Toppo, who is himself comparable a limit-broken Vegeta, who was capable of fighting competently with a held-back Jiren, stated several times to be the strongest foe in Dragon Ball history and surpassing the likes of even an incomplete Infinite Zamasu. Whis hinted that he might be stronger than Beerus

Note the last bit here about being Belmond possibly being superior than Beerus. Granted, not an issue on its own, but if you look at the scaling chain, the problem lies like so:

MUI Goku = LB Jiren > Base Jiren >/= Belmond > Beerus

Granted, this does rely on Belmond possibly being stronger than Beerus, but you can remove him out of the equation and the scaling would still look like this:

MUI Goku = LB Jiren > Base Jiren >/= Most gods of destruction (incl. Beerus)

So, this means one of the few things.

1. MUI Goku could clap Beerus's cheeks and its only because he's a moron that Beerus's days arent numbered.
2. Anime statements are being pulled out of Toei/Toyotaro's arsecrack and should probably be inspected individually so we can determine which statements are valid and which ones are contrarian/PIS/outliers
3. The profiles regarding each character are flawed and we should probably organise a revision so that we have something of a chain scaling, since DBS movies are showing that Goku still has ways to go despite being comparable to Beerus (assuming that the DBS movies take place after the end of the TOP).

 

[AwkguyDB]

I agree with the third option I myself have been working on a scaling chain and ran into the same issue. If you read Beerus' AP description its also outdated.

 

[FireSwordHero]

To be fair, there is one way I could Beerus being superior to Goku despite the issues with the scaling; despite Goku reaching points where he could possibly match Beerus in raw power (hypothetically), Beerus still takes the edge in overall combat experience and his Mastery of the Power of Destruction.

Sure, we have seen Goku resisting its effects before, but that is from Characters who aren't gods of Destruction or are candidates who are inexperienced compared to an actual Destroyers. It's even been stated in the manga that Hakai requires training to use its full powers properly (which to be fair doesn't match the anime, but the idea could still likely apply here), and in the anime proper, Destroyers such as Beerus can easily nullify Energy of Destruction that takes lower characters much more force to overcome, such as when he literally blew away the Destruction Energy that would have overwhelmed Base-Goku despite his resistances, while characters such as Vegeta still need to extert themselves when in more powerful forms such as Blue Evolved.

Simply put, we have never seen Beerus use his destruction power to its fullest potential, but considering its effects and the fact that even casual demonstrations cam rip apart a single Dragon Ball universe, Beerus's superiority is mainly due to the sheer master of the Power Of Destruction he wields. If Beerus were to stop taking Goku and Vegeta so casually and get serious, he would be able to just Hakai them before they could even do anything, even if they started in their most powerful forms. Its the same reason that Zeno is superior to Beerus despite the latter clearly being a more capable and likely more powerful fighter: the Power Of Destruction is simply inferior to the power of Erasure.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Goku is inferior to beerus in the manga but not in the anime.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree

 

[Jaakor48]

Belmond being superior to Beerus was immediately shut down by Beerus, and was pointed out that he only post a hand wrestling match, the exact same scenario played out in the manga, but with quintela instead. When Whis repeated the same statement about Jiren being stronger then his GoD, he noticably removed the fact about belmond possibly being stronger than Beerus

Then we have broly also being directly compared to Beerus as well, and broly forced gogeta up to ssb, which logically means he's well above anything in the ToP tbh (unless there's proof that MUI is several thousand times multiplier from SSB, because base gogeta was stronger than SSB Goku/Vegeta)

also I never agreed with the specific scaling of Jiren and the other 3 GoDs simply because they didn't shake the WoV, when we saw toppo straight up casually warp it while holding back, and he'd be a noob compared to them. GoDs destroying their universes when they fight seem to be a cause and effect thing simply based off Beerus and champa's fights. Belmond is the one GoD that is factually stated to be weaker than Jiren, nothing about anyone else

IMHO
broly>=Beerus>Mui Goku> LB Jiren in the anime alone+ broly movie

 

[AguilaR202]

Nothing suggests GoDs have to be close to one another in power, so what if Goku outscales 3 random ass GoDs they don’t have any showings vs Beerus to where the current assumption wouldn’t be that he is level with MUI/Broly/Gogeta /LB Jiren based off Gokus asessment of Brolys power.
This interpretation makes more sense based on our current scaling:

LSSJ Broly>/= Beerus>>>>>Ikari Broly=Post UI2 SSB>UI1>3GoDs

 

[y3p_owo]

I say either 2 or 3 should be what we go with, though I'm personally leaning towards the 2nd option.

 

[MrLuk2000]

I agree

 

[Nullflowerblush]

This is a Necro; you know better.