Dragon Ball: Soul Manipulation Reboot.

[MrTayman616]

Usually every soul has consciousness and memories etc. I don't think that alone counts as mind and soul being linked to that point.

 

[TiltedFN]

I'm fine with the Soul/Ectoplasm Manipulation in general, but I'm a little skeptical of the Devilmite Beam being soul-based. It feels like bit of a stretch.

The mind is a pretty core component of the soul in dragon ball, the two are connected. We see the souls in the afterlife have a conscious, they are talking, and its all before they have their memories cleansed. Moreover on the evil part, just beings state of heart can significantly affect the state of souls as seen with yamoshi, and other victims killed by those with evil hearts. The devilmite beam targets those things, evil itself, in the heart, mind, conscious and uses those against you, all of which are connected to the soul and play vital parts of affecting the soul in general.

 

[FinePoint]

The mind is a pretty core component of the soul in dragon ball, the two are connected. We see the souls in the afterlife have a conscious, they are talking, and its all before they have their memories cleansed. Moreover on the evil part, just beings state of heart can significantly affect the state of souls as seen with yamoshi, and other victims killed by those with evil hearts. The devilmite beam targets those things, evil itself, in the heart, mind, conscious and uses those against you, all of which are connected to the soul and play vital parts of affecting the soul in general.

Things being connected doesn't mean that manipulation of one is manipulation of the other directly. That would just be happenstance.

Though, ultimately, evil itself is a concept. Where it resides is entirely arbitrary. He claims it's in the heart, so I'd just believe him. Even metaphorically, that typically refers to emotion, not soul.

So without further context, I don't feel like we have enough evidence to say it's manipulating the soul directly.

 

[TiltedFN]

Things being connected doesn't mean that manipulation of one is manipulation of the other directly. That would just be happenstance.

Though, ultimately, evil itself is a concept. Where it resides is entirely arbitrary. He claims it's in the heart, so I'd just believe him. Even metaphorically, that typically refers to emotion, not soul.

So without further context, I don't feel like we have enough evidence to say it's manipulating the soul directly.

In the case of the devilmite beam, heart here would be metaphorical yes, it doesn't actually explode hearts, it corrupts the evil in your 'heart' and then your body will literally be blown to bits, which is whats also claimed. Even if you have the tiniest bit of evil in your heart or thoughts, the attack will work when hit by it. In the context of this, heart means purity, good and evil, yada yada yada. Which is why all that needs to be cleansed after death, its from the soul, so he's interacting with the soul, manipulating the evil within it to kill you.

 

[MeiouHades]

Posted without me

 

[TiltedFN]

Posted without me

 

[MeiouHades]

Don't make me disagree

 

[FinePoint]

In the context of this, heart means purity, good and evil, yada yada yada. Which is why all that needs to be cleansed after death, its from the soul, so he's interacting with the soul, manipulating the evil within it to kill you.

What's the evidence this stuff is explicitly soul-based, and not some more complicated mixture of various different systems?

 

[MeiouHades]

What's the evidence this stuff is explicitly soul-based, and not some more complicated mixture of various different systems?

I feel like it should be the other way around, what (if any) evidence is there for it to be a mixture of various different systems? Which systems? To my knowledge, there are none. In Dragon Ball, whenever we talk about good or evil it is almost always in the context of someone's soul (or, as the Moro arc showed, their Ki too), which means there is at least some precedent for the former and none for the latter. So if we are to argue that it stems from some different systems as you claimed, we'd need explicit evidence for that since that goes against what is generally established in the verse.

 

[FinePoint]

I feel like it should be the other way around, what (if any) evidence is there for it to be a mixture of various different systems? Which systems? To my knowledge, there are none. In Dragon Ball, whenever we talk about good or evil it is almost always in the context of someone's soul (or, as the Moro arc showed, their Ki too), which means there is at least some precedent for the former and none for the latter. So if we are to argue that it stems from some different systems as you claimed, we'd need explicit evidence for that since that goes against what is generally established in the verse.

Well if it's explicitly associated with the soul elsewhere, it's probably fine.

I wouldn't know. I'm not a fan.

 

[MeiouHades]

I'm saying that it isn't explicitly related to anything else even remotely, and given what we later learn in the verse, the only sensible conclusion is for it to be soul-based. That is my argument, I'm not saying there's some scan that says "The Devilmite beam attacks the souls!!!" that would be quite misleading of me.

 

[FinePoint]

I'm saying that it isn't explicitly related to anything else even remotely, and given what we later learn in the verse, the only sensible conclusion is for it to be soul-based. That is my argument, I'm not saying there's some scan that says "The Devilmite beam attacks the souls!!!" that would be quite misleading of me.

I meant if evil is explicitly referred to as if related to the soul.

 

[MeiouHades]

That is a general precedent in the verse, yes, especially if you look at the Moro saga. It even related it to Ki.

 

[FinePoint]

That is a general precedent in the verse, yes, especially if you look at the Moro saga. It even related it to Ki.

Alright. In that case it's probably fine.

 

[MeiouHades]

I meant if evil is explicitly referred to as if related to the soul.

Just as a small example of what I referred to, this is from the Moro arc:

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Sounds like that's three agreements then. With the only major issue being Ectoplasm standards changing in the future.

 

[VinnyXD]

ghost in DB are deaper than soul

Actually in Toei ki can affect ghost

GT as well

 

[TiltedFN]

Seems this thread has been accepted.