• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Downgraded Conceptual Manipulation Type-2 Ard Meteor.

Messages
59
Reaction score
9
First, the premise for granting Ard Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 is based on the idea that his Original Technique works by analyzing the target’s fundamental structure and then taking control over it once the information is fully understood. Initially, this ability was only effective against ordinary magic, but evidence suggests that in theory it could be applied to all concepts. However, special abilities or high-level skills contain extremely complex information that overwhelms Ard’s brain and can cause insanity or mental overload. Therefore, the main limitation is not the scope of the power itself, but how much data the user is capable of processing. After Ard overcame that limitation, he became able to analyze and control his opponent’s Original Technique.⁠

[ Profil Meteor Ard ]
Problematic Conceptual Manipulation Type 2
1. The real issue lies in the word “concept” itself, whether it truly refers to something abstract and fundamental. Let us examine it more carefully. It is not automatically valid to grant Conceptual Manipulation, especially Type 2, simply because a fictional work frequently uses the word “concept.” A concept can merely mean an idea, image, or understanding within the mind. Therefore, if it is altered, then only someone’s perception changes, not reality itself.
2. The real issue lies in the word “concept” itself, whether it truly refers to something abstract and fundamental. Let us examine it more carefully. It is not automatically valid to object to Conceptual Manipulation, especially Type 2, simply because a fictional work frequently uses the word “concept.” A concept can merely mean an idea, image, or understanding within the mind. Therefore, if it is altered, then only someone’s perception changes, not reality itself.
3.
From the Conceptual Manipulation page, it has been explained that every concept is connected to its respective object.⁠ For something to qualify as Conceptual Manipulation, the concept must be a real foundation that determines the properties or existence of the object it defines, such that altering the concept would directly affect the object in reality.

4. The statement claiming that Ard’s Original Technique can analyze and control all concepts is not enough to be directly considered Conceptual Manipulation, because the statement is still broad and may simply be
hyperbole⁠ within fiction, making the claim of analyzing and controlling all concepts an exaggeration. I can provide a logical explanation that the word “concept” may refer to the principles of a magic system, the mechanism of an ability, the data and information of a skill, or merely an ordinary abstract idea—not a concept that truly qualifies as both fundamental and abstract while also supporting the existence of an object. The feat shown in that scene only goes as far as analyzing and controlling the opponent’s special skill or Original Technique, which is essentially Power Mimicry.
5.
Type 2 concepts under general standards are abstract and govern all reality within their sphere of influence. These concepts shape everything or define every object tied to them in reality, and changing them would require changing every object of that concept. This type of concept depends on the objects it defines, but is also abstract, governs surrounding reality, and possesses universal properties.⁠
6. In other words, Ard’s Original Technique does not deserve the label of Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 because there is no evidence that he controls or manipulates abstract concepts that govern reality, are directly dependent, and possess universal properties. We already know that the requirement for Type 2 concepts is that the concept must be the governing foundation of all objects within its scope, and changing that concept would affect all manifestations of it in reality. In Ard’s case, the feat only demonstrates control over concepts that do not refer to abstract governing concepts, along with analysis and takeover of other people’s Original Techniques.

— TL;DR
• Therefore, there are many issues with this claim. First, the word “concept” does not always refer to the abstract concepts recognized by VSBW qualifications and is being overstretched here. Second, there is no evidence that the mentioned concepts are tied to the objects they govern, nor that such abstract concepts govern all reality and possess universal properties. The Original Technique merely analyzes and takes over the opponent’s ability—or takes the ability itself through
Power Mimicry⁠ or modifies the opponent’s ability by analyzing it first.
• At least Conceptual Manipulation Type 3
 
Last edited:
This is fine, though I noticed a few threads have been made, just be aware only 3 are allowed per verse, also as I already said I haven't finished reading the series, so these threads will likely stall until then.

Also I was going to make bigger crts so idk if doing this piece by piece is the way to go.
 
Last edited:
This is fine, though I noticed a few threads have been made, just be aware only 3 are allowed per verse, also as I already said I haven't finished reading the series, so these threads will likely stall until then.

Also I was going to make bigger crts so idk if doing this piece my piece is the way to go.
ah my bad, in that case I will stop upgrading or discussing this verse again.

so you agree that ard’s original technique does not have conceptual manipulation type 2 ability
 
Well ye this can be hyperbolic very. Although you could argue for CM3 since usually just controlling concepts are enough for cm3
so if it is stated to control all concepts then it could be labeled as conceptual manipulation but with type 3 which is individual concepts and you agree that this is not conceptual manipulation type 2 yes okay thank you
 
Technically if Ard can analyze all concepts which includes original techniques, but refrains from doing so due to the information overload, he could theoretically analyze and control Verda's techniques is blantly universal, but since just analyzing Lizer's technique nearly fried his brain forcing him to use his 3rd form, seems implausible to me, he could survive doing so.

So yea cm3 at best.
 
Technically if Ard can analyze all concepts which includes original techniques, but refrains from doing so due to the information overload, he could theoretically analyze and control Verda's techniques is blantly universal, but since just analyzing Lizer's technique nearly fried his brain forcing him to use his 3rd form, seems implausible to me, he could survive doing so.

So yea cm3 at best.
so it can be understood that ard was shown holding himself back from using original technique to its full extent because an excess of information could endanger his mental condition this actually shows a clear limitation in that ability namely the limits of ard’s own processing capacity which directly restrict the use of his power.

even if you were able to add feats and upgrade ard’s ability back into conceptual manipulation type 2 it would still be limited because of the issues explained above.

then what about verda’s technique how does its mechanism work and why are you confident that it qualifies as conceptual manipulation type 2
 
Back
Top