Does the wiki treat genjutsu as not working against people thats not in the naruto verse?

[LordGinSama]

 

[TauanVictor]

Wow, glad to hear that my matchup was pretty "relevant".

 

[Hasty12345]

Someone give me a tldr on why it should work

Because saying "Itachi doesn't solo [insert X verse] because they don't have chakra" is fken lame and who wants to debate Naruto and put up with "BuT mUh DuDe DoEsNt HaVe ChAkRa", it's cheap and boring and people just need to accept the fact Itachi solos coz their verse doesn't have a mangekyosharingan smh

 

[Purgy]

Because saying "Itachi doesn't solo [insert X verse] because they don't have chakra" is fken lame and who wants to debate Naruto and put up with "BuT mUh DuDe DoEsNt HaVe ChAkRa", it's cheap and boring and people just need to accept the fact Itachi solos coz their verse doesn't have a mangekyosharingan smh

The problem isn't that people from outside of Naruto don't have chakra, the problem is that people outside of Naruto don't have a chakra network, which is an extremely complicated biological system that is tied to everything in their body such as their nervous system, which is how Genjutsu can work in the first place, by manipulating their nervous system via their chakra network.

To claim Genjutsu works on people from other verses you'd have to claim that verse equalization gives everyone a chakra network, which isn't how verse equalization works, either that or the verse in question would have to have an energy system closely tied to the nervous system, and the only example I can think of for that is Naruto.

Blame Kishimoto for making Genjutsu overly specific in how it functions.

As for Biju not having a chakra network, nowhere is that said, in fact, we can reasonably assume they do because Kurama actively has to knead chakra, which is something you do with a chakra network, not only that, but Biju are shown to have blood, bones and internal organs such as a stomach and Kurama is stated to be capable of vomiting, so to claim they're just a "mass of chakra" is purposefully misinterpreting what was stated, they are masses of chakra, but they're still physical in nature, this is extremely obvious.

 

[PrinceofPein]

As for Biju not having a chakra network, nowhere is that said, in fact, we can reasonably assume they do because Kurama actively has to knead chakra, which is something you do with a chakra network, not only that, but Biju are shown to have blood, bones and internal organs such as a stomach and Kurama is stated to be capable of vomiting, so to claim they're just a "mass of chakra" is purposefully misinterpreting what was stated,

All these was before it was stated that bijuu are nothing but chakra, and everything they are is chakra. It's called retroactive continuity. Everything you said is right but that was before it was states that the bijuu are nothing but masses of chakra walking around

 

[LordGinSama]

To add onto Purgy's post which is very well put together, even Sharigan Genjutsu forces a certain type of energy into the opponent via eyesight (which still requires a travel time and distance.) to affect the opponent. People who work and function on entirely different energy system should be effectively immune to such mechanics.


Genjutsu does not directly effect the mind itself as Chakra is still a catalyst. Also using Infinite Tsukiyomi as a justification for all Genjutsu working on opponents who don't have Chakra network's is inherently incorrect as that particular Genjutsu is literally incomparable to any other Genjutsu in the verse, IT = / = any other Genjutsu.



And it's not instant either, as Madara needed the moon to use IT to effect the planet and even ocular Genjutsu still requires distance to some extent. For the Gojo example, he has a Conceptual shield around him that creates an infinite distance between him and his opponent, Itachi would need a range rating of infinite distance to target Gojo. Even eyesight is still based upon range in the form of the distance of which Itachi can view, he doesn't negate the distance between him and the opponent otherwise a Genjutsu user could effect an opponent from half way across the world which goes against Madara needing the moon to reflect the distance of his Genjutsu.

 

[LordGinSama]

All these was before it was stated that bijuu are nothing but chakra, and everything they are is chakra. It's called retroactive continuity. Everything you said is right but that was before it was states that the bijuu are nothing but masses of chakra walking around

Biju are literal Chakra they don't need a Chakra system since they themselves are composed of Chakra. They don't need Chakra networks due to being composed of Chakra, which is something that is explicitly required for Genjutsu to take affect.

 

[Razor]

Biju are literal Chakra they don't need a Chakra system since they themselves are composed of Chakra. They don't need Chakra networks due to being composed of Chakra

So do you agree that they dont have one or they do have one (chakra network) ?

 

[LordGinSama]

So do you agree that they dont have one or they do have one (chakra network) ?

Bijuu ARE mases of Chakra so they're directly affected. You can't manipulate atoms if the opponent in question isn't even made of atoms.

 

[Metalballrun]

It's for the same reason why All For One won't be able to steal abilities from Naruto, but probably would be able to do so for Marvel Mutants, I think.

It's the (in)compatibility of the verse systems. It would be difficult to equalize two systems that are very different from each other. I'm sure there's a lot of verses with similar systems as Naruto, but also a lot that doesn't.

 

[Razor]

Bijuu ARE mases of Chakra so they're directly affected. You can't manipulate atoms if the opponent in question isn't even made of atoms.

Ah aight

 

[PrinceofPein]

Biju are literal Chakra they don't need a Chakra system since they themselves are composed of Chakra. They don't need Chakra networks due to being composed of Chakra, which is something that is explicitly required for Genjutsu to take affect.

I am not arguing genjutsu needing chakra to work I am arguing genjutsu needing a chakra network to work

 

[KingTempest]

All these was before it was stated that bijuu are nothing but chakra, and everything they are is chakra. It's called retroactive continuity. Everything you said is right but that was before it was states that the bijuu are nothing but masses of chakra walking around

This is not true in the slightest.

They were stated to be chakra monsters who are comprised of chakra in chapter 256, chapter 404. and several other chapters.

That was stated during the war, around 600.

 

[PrinceofPein]

This is not true in the slightest.

They were stated to be chakra monsters who are comprised of chakra in chapter 256, chapter 404. and several other chapters.

That was stated during the war, around 600.

I'm talking about the part where they were stated to be pure chakra and also my point was they don't have a chakra network

 

[KingTempest]

I'm talking about the part where they were stated to be pure chakra and also my point was they don't have a chakra network

They can be pure chakra which can be given physical form to be shaped as other items.

Like Toneri's truthseeking orb which he turned into a cage.

Or Naruto's Yin-Yang chakra where he turned his chakra into an eye for Kakashi.

And moulding chakra has always been a network thing, so that's pretty much confirmation that they have networks.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

I wish it was an option to remove it for a matchup like Speed equalisation. But oh well.

 

[TauanVictor]

I wish it was an option to remove it for a matchup like Speed equalisation. But oh well.

You can remove any power in a matchup, it just won't be added.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

You can remove any power in a matchup, it just won't be added.

Exacrly. What I mean. It sgould be valud

 

[Kidkinsey]

To add onto Purgy's post which is very well put together, even Sharigan Genjutsu forces a certain type of energy into the opponent via eyesight (which still requires a travel time and distance.) to affect the opponent. People who work and function on entirely different energy system should be effectively immune to such mechanics.


Genjutsu does not directly effect the mind itself as Chakra is still a catalyst. Also using Infinite Tsukiyomi as a justification for all Genjutsu working on opponents who don't have Chakra network's is inherently incorrect as that particular Genjutsu is literally incomparable to any other Genjutsu in the verse, IT = / = any other Genjutsu.



And it's not instant either, as Madara needed the moon to use IT to effect the planet and even ocular Genjutsu still requires distance to some extent. For the Gojo example, he has a Conceptual shield around him that creates an infinite distance between him and his opponent, Itachi would need a range rating of infinite distance to target Gojo. Even eyesight is still based upon range in the form of the distance of which Itachi can view, he doesn't negate the distance between him and the opponent otherwise a Genjutsu user could effect an opponent from half way across the world which goes against Madara needing the moon to reflect the distance of his Genjutsu.

IT is just tsukyomi reflected off the moon, when madara is using tsukyomi on obito he says when using "this" jutsu on the moon instead of our eyes we can trap people into a world of dreams. The moon was only required to catch the entire planet at once

 

[Nullflowerblush]

he has a Conceptual shield around him that creates an infinite distance between him and his opponent

A spatial shield that slows down the opponent the closer they get to him, seemingly creating an infinite distance between them*
It is essentially a limitless rubber-banding effect.

No worries, pal. You are insured.
'Kay, bye-bye.

 

[Livinmeme]

I mean gojo is getting CM but IDK if that is affecting infinity

 

[Nullflowerblush]

what the hell why
but let me know on my page so we don't derail the thread

 

[KingTempest]

but ill make a thread for it because it's being brought up so much.

Can I close this?