Does conceptually transcending 1-A make a character High 1-A?

[Onel]

Would a conceptual transcendence from outer get one automatically to high outer or not? It always used to be like this but now, it’s being said that conceptually transcending outer is only 1 layer into outer. So I had to ask.

 

[Abstraction_of_Mainland]

This is an interesting question. Sadly, I don’t know the answer

 

[Onel]

This is an interesting question. Sadly, I don’t know the answer

Oh well, just gonna have to wait for someone who does have the answer.

 

[Catzlaflame]

Most definitely not

 

[QuasiYuri]

That's kinda vague.

 

[Onel]

Most definitely not

Why not?

 

[Onel]

That's kinda vague.

Would you say that the only possible way to get from outer to high outer is through transcending an inf-layered outer hierarchy?

 

[Sus]

transcending a 1A is still 1A, even if it was infinite infinities of infinite transcendency

 

[Sus]

Would you say that the only possible way to get from outer to high outer is through transcending an inf-layered outer hierarchy?

not necessarily, as long as implied and left obvious that the character transcends all possible extensions of 1A

 

[Catzlaflame]

Why not?

Cus it needs a lot more “conceptual trancendence” isn’t always = to a uncountably^Infinite or reality fiction trancendence. To get high-1A you would need an infinite amount of these and then need to prove said character views the ENTIRE hierarchy in the same way.

 

[Sus]

Cus it needs a lot more “conceptual trancendence” isn’t always = to a uncountably^Infinite or reality fiction trancendence. To get high-1A you would need an infinite amount of these and then need to prove said character views the ENTIRE hierarchy in the same way.

not necessarily infinite, if it was finite, as long as it's heavily implied that the character transcends all of possible extensions of it, as saying "no matter how layers you transcend, you're never reaching me!" or some sorta stuff like that

 

[Catzlaflame]

not necessarily infinite, if it was finite, as long as it's heavily implied that the character transcends all of possible extensions of it, as saying "no matter how layers you transcend, you're never reaching me!" or some sorta stuff like that

Oh yea forgot about that, that’s true

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Pretty sure if you're beyond any extension of 1-A, you can be H1-A, tho I can be wrong

 

[Sus]

Pretty sure if you're beyond any extension of 1-A, you can be H1-A, tho I can be wrong

that's what we were saying, it depends on how you prove that the character is beyond it

 

[Sus]

a side question though

how to prove the existence of a H1A without having an already existing 1A characters/hierarchies?

 

[Onel]

that's what we were saying, it depends on how you prove that the character is beyond it

So just in case I’m understanding this correctly, you can be high outer by transcending a structure that is 1 (or any finite number) layer into outer? If so, do you have to transcend it normally or by viewing it as fiction?

 

[Onel]

a side question though

how to prove the existence of a H1A without having an already existing 1A characters/hierarchies?

I don’t think you can?

 

[Sus]

So just in case I’m understanding this correctly, you can be high outer by transcending a structure that is 1 (or any finite number) layer into outer? If so, do you have to transcend it normally or by viewing it as fiction?

viewing 1 layer as fiction is another layer
BUT
viewing a hierarchy of layers (no number specified) and viewing it all as fiction, would qualify, but needs ridiculous proofs

 

[Onel]

viewing 1 layer as fiction is another layer
BUT
viewing a hierarchy of layers (no number specified) and viewing it all as fiction, would qualify, but needs ridiculous proofs

Ah ok, I see. On that note, how would you define a conceptual transcendence? Since there isn’t really much information about it.

 

[Sus]

Ah ok, I see. On that note, how would you define a conceptual transcendence? Since there isn’t really much information about it.

"conceptually" what does this mean?

 

[Onel]

"conceptually" what does this mean?

Referring to concept/abstract idea I guess?

 

[Sus]

Referring to concept/abstract idea I guess?

no, no it doesn't

 

[Onel]

"conceptually" what does this mean?

If you’re trying to say that it is a transcendence of any concept, shouldn’t it be able to go from 1 tier to the next since it should be transcending the notion of that tier? Idk too much about this so correct me if I’m wrong. The tiering system and vsbw don’t really talk about conceptual transcendence at all.

 

[Onel]

no, no it doesn't

Then what?

 

[Sus]

If you’re trying to say that it is a transcendence of any concept, shouldn’t it be able to go from 1 tier to the next since it should be transcending the notion of that tier? Idk too much about this so correct me if I’m wrong. The tiering system and vsbw don’t really talk about conceptual transcendence at all.

Then what?

concepts doesn't give tiers anymore, that's why many tier 1/0 lost their position, because many verses use the metaphysical platonic bullshit instead of an actual hierarchy of higher infinities and cardinals

if "conceptual transcendence" means that you're beyond all possible extensions of 1A, sure, that's H1A, throwing some philosophical words won't be enough, anymore

so basically, the requirements are easy but hard to achieve

the tiering system page does talk about it btw

High 1-A | High Outerverse level: Characters who can affect and create/destroy states or realms which are completely transcendent over infinitely-layered Outerversal hierarchies and any extensions thereof, as well as the framework in which such entities are defined in the first place. Note that simply adding more "layers" to an already infinite 1-A hierarchy (or some structure of equivalent size) is not enough to reach this tier, and one must be completely external and unreachable by it in any form.

 

[Onel]

concepts doesn't give tiers anymore, that's why many tier 1/0 lost their position, because many verses use the metaphysical platonic bullshit instead of an actual hierarchy of higher infinities and cardinals

if "conceptual transcendence" means that you're beyond all possible extensions of 1A, sure, that's H1A, throwing some philosophical words won't be enough, anymore

so basically, the requirements are easy but hard to achieve

the tiering system page does talk about it btw

High 1-A | High Outerverse level: Characters who can affect and create/destroy states or realms which are completely transcendent over infinitely-layered Outerversal hierarchies and any extensions thereof, as well as the framework in which such entities are defined in the first place. Note that simply adding more "layers" to an already infinite 1-A hierarchy (or some structure of equivalent size) is not enough to reach this tier, and one must be completely external and unreachable by it in any form.

Alright, now I pretty much understand what you’re getting at and how it all works but there is still one thing I need to ask.


0 | Boundless: Characters who demonstrate an equivalence to, or can create/destroy/affect, transcendental abstract levels of existence which conceptually stand superior to even High 1-A levels. Being “omnipotent” or any similar reasoning[4] is not nearly enough to reach this tier; characters at this level must transcend High 1-A characters as High 1-A characters would transcend 1-A ones. This tier has no true endpoint, and can be extended unto any higher level, spiraling infinitely upwards.


Now from this, I’d say that it proves that boundless characters are above high outer characters conceptually. So to get from high outer to boundless, you need to conceptually transcend high outer. And then it goes on to state that boundless character transcend high outer character the same way high outer characters transcend outer ones. Wouldn’t this just be proving that (high outer - boundless = outer - high outer) the gap between these tiers are conceptual?
of course, let me know if you disagree or think I’m wrong on any of this.

 

[Sus]

Alright, now I pretty much understand what you’re getting at and how it all works but there is still one thing I need to ask.


0 | Boundless: Characters who demonstrate an equivalence to, or can create/destroy/affect, transcendental abstract levels of existence which conceptually stand superior to even High 1-A levels. Being “omnipotent” or any similar reasoning[4] is not nearly enough to reach this tier; characters at this level must transcend High 1-A characters as High 1-A characters would transcend 1-A ones. This tier has no true endpoint, and can be extended unto any higher level, spiraling infinitely upwards.


Now from this, I’d say that it proves that boundless characters are above high outer characters conceptually. So to get from high outer to boundless, you need to conceptually transcend high outer. And then it goes on to state that boundless character transcend high outer character the same way high outer characters transcend outer ones. Wouldn’t this just be proving that (high outer - boundless = outer - high outer) the gap between these tiers are conceptual?
of course, let me know if you disagree or think I’m wrong on any of this.

honestly i think "conceptually" here could refer to that boundless characters are beyond the scope of high outer

a staff member's answer would be recommended

 

[Sus]

with or without the word "conceptually" i see no difference

 

[Sus]

found this in another thread

ye, it has to be like no possible extension of the infinite-layered hiearchies, normally infinite dimensions, can ever extend onto their level. That's why we say "transcend the very notion or concepts of dimensions".

basically, as i said, conceptually here means that the character is beyond all extensions of the hierarchy

 

[Onel]

found this in another thread

basically, as i said, conceptually here means that the character is beyond all extensions of the hierarchy

I agree with you, but still, that statement still needs evidence to back it up, and there isn’t any evidence to prove it. Maybe a staff can reply and help with this.

 

[Livinmeme]

Basically the diference betwen Tier 1-A and High 1-A is inacessible cardinal or something like that, basically you cant tracend 1-A by just tracending you need to tracend the whole herarchy of 1-A as a whole to be High 1-A

 

[Onel]

Basically the diference betwen Tier 1-A and High 1-A is inacessible cardinal or something like that, basically you cant tracend 1-A by just tracending you need to tracend the whole herarchy of 1-A as a whole to be High 1-A

I disagree with the difference between them being inaccessible because I’m pretty sure that each layer into outer is a higher aleph than the previous meaning that each layer views the previous as fiction. I can be wrong but I’m pretty sure that’s how it works. But I still think that a conceptual transcendence is even greater than an inaccessible transcendence and has the ability to transcend all extensions of a hierarchy itself.

 

[Livinmeme]

I disagree with the difference between them being inaccessible because I’m pretty sure that each layer into outer is a higher aleph than the previous meaning that each layer views the previous as fiction. I can be wrong but I’m pretty sure that’s how it works. But I still think that a conceptual transcendence is even greater than an inaccessible transcendence and has the ability to transcend all extensions of a hierarchy itself.

Yeah but you cant be High 1-A by stacking tracencions you need to tracend the entire cosmology of 1-A+

 

[Onel]

Yeah but you cant be High 1-A by stacking tracencions you need to tracend the entire cosmology of 1-A+

Yes, I understand that it needs to be through a hierarchy, but I’m thinking that a conceptual transcendence is above any and all hierarchies giving it the ability to transcend any/all extensions of a hierarchy. So that would mean it would be able to go from outer to high outer, but there isn’t really much to back that up. There is only a short amount of info on conceptual transcendence and it’s not explained how it works very well. It’s also not really included much in the tiering system other than boundless.

 

[Livinmeme]

Yes, I understand that it needs to be through a hierarchy, but I’m thinking that a conceptual transcendence is above any and all hierarchies giving it the ability to transcend any/all extensions of a hierarchy. So that would mean it would be able to go from outer to high outer, but there isn’t really much to back that up. There is only a short amount of info on conceptual transcendence and it’s not explained how it works very well. It’s also not really included much in the tiering system other than boundless.

Conceptual tracendency is to vague TBH

 

[Sus]

conceptual transcendence doesn't mean anything without context

 

[Onel]

conceptual transcendence doesn't mean anything without context

How would that work?

 

[Sus]

How would that work?

without context, it doesn't

 

[Cat275]

Kinda old but bassically no, would be high1a if you transcend any possible extension of 1a though since that is akin to inaccessible.

 

[Swerzye29038]

Completely depends on the meaning of the word "conceptually" within the work of fiction. With no context, Ii doesn't mean anything.