A Bunch of Questions on 1-A, High 1-A, and High 1-A+ concerning their depiction, R>F, possible disqualifications

[Red-Lore-Master]

So I've been tinkerin' about for a while and trying to understand some of the nuances of Tier 1, especially 1-A up to High 1-A+, because apparently it can be very easy for a (hypothetical) verse to get disqualified from being either Tier 1-A, High 1-A, High 1-A+, or 0. Preferably I wanted to discuss my questions in a more dynamic back-and-forth fashion (e.g. chatting), but I hope there will still be people on this forum who will notice this thread and respond to my questions.

Without further stalling, here are a bunch of questions I ended up writing down, and I hope others could help me in making sense of these matters.

Q1: Can a verse have more than one profile or character that is High 1-A+ Type 2? And if not, can an exception be made if the several characters are effectively one and the same entity--as in, they "embody the framework of all possible worlds" but they are individually subjective expressions of the same "entity" or "force"?

Q2: Is it an anti-feat for R>F transcendance if the qualitatively superior reality is also depicted as a 3D universe where there is matter, space, and time, even if said reality is ontologically discontinuous or transcending the "lower reality"?

Q3: Can 1-A, High 1-A, and High 1-A+ realms and "spaces" be depicted as material worlds where people can eat, sleep, drink, undergo change, do things, et cetera--or would that be an anti-feat?

Q4: Can two High 1-A+ type 1 characters kill one another? And if so, what kind of attribute must a High 1-A+ possess to be unkilable or unvioable when High 1-A+ type 1s are supposed to all exist on the same framework?

Q5: As a follow-up to the previous question, what is even the range or "peremeters" of High 1-A+ type 1s? Because based on other threads I have skimmed through, people are saying that there can be High 1-A type 1 realms, layers, et cetera. And that while High 1-A+ type 2s are essentially superior to type 1s that they still exist "on the same framework". So how big is the gap then exactly? How big can the gap between individual High 1-A type 1s reasonably be? Can it be on the level between a regular pedestrian and a reality-warper that treats the entire world as a fictional play?

Q6: Is it possible for a verse to make a leap from, say, 2-A or 1-C to High 1-A, without there necessarily being a "1-A realm"? And if so, are there examples of High 1-A structures or worlds in the absence of 1-A ones in a verse?

Q7: What's the highest a High 1-A can be statistics wise? Not High 1-A+ type 1, but rather, how many meta qualitative layers over High 1-A?

Q8: Does R>F transcendance only apply to 1-A structure and characters, or could it also apply in the context of either High 1-A or High 1-A+? As in, would it be a disqualifier if from the perspective of a supposed High 1-A(+) being, everything outside of them or lower to their existence is fiction, a dream, or dreams inside dreams, et cetera?

Q9: If a (High) 1-A realm exerts influence on a low 1-A or High 1-B structure, does that disqualify the former of being (High) 1-A? Because I thought that the problem of disqualification was solely that nothing from the lower domain could quantitatively reach or become (High) 1-A because the latter is ontologically superior and discontinuous and therefore irreducible to the former. The only way it can be bridged from "low to high" is by the intervention of a higher being, i.e. an entity from at least the level of that qualitatively superior domain. But I have also read somewhere that it would be a disqualification if a (High) 1-A entity or world were to exert its essence or power upon qualitatively inferior domain because to said entity or world it should all be just indistinguishable smoke. But I am not sure if the nature of it being all indistinguishable and discontinuous prevents a higher being from shaping and influencing said worlds regardless.
So for instance, if one were to say that the qualitatively superior reality/domain "bleeds into" or "transmits information to" the qualitatively inferior reality (in this case a High 1-B world) that would be grounds for a disqualifier?

Q10: If a (High) 1-A(+) cosmological structure contains information of qualitatively inferior worlds (e.g. souls á la afterlife, the infinite possibilities of material reality that exist in a Platonic fashion beyond the actual material reality) does reduce the cosmological structure to simply being a higher set within the qualitatively inferior world, and thereby disqualify it from being (High) 1-A(+)?

Q11: Is it possible to retroactively make the base reality of a verse 1-A (or higher) through R>F transcendance, or is R>F only legitimate when it concerns stories from the perspective of characters transcending from fiction to reality?

I have a couple more questions in mind, but they are more specific and have to do with a story or verse I have in mind, so I would prefer to discuss that in private with someone if they are interested.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

I will reply later.

 

[Jin2188]

Q1: Can a verse have more than one profile or character that is High 1-A+ Type 2? And if not, can an exception be made if the several characters are effectively one and the same entity--as in, they "embody the framework of all possible worlds" but they are individually subjective expressions of the same "entity" or "force"?

Yes and yes.

Q2: Is it an anti-feat for R>F transcendance if the qualitatively superior reality is also depicted as a 3D universe where there is matter, space, and time, even if said reality is ontologically discontinuous or transcending the "lower reality"?

No, this is completely fine.

Q3: Can 1-A, High 1-A, and High 1-A+ realms and "spaces" be depicted as material worlds where people can eat, sleep, drink, undergo change, do things, et cetera--or would that be an anti-feat?

Yes for 1-A and High 1-A, not really sure about High 1-A+ though.

Q4: Can two High 1-A+ type 1 characters kill one another? And if so, what kind of attribute must a High 1-A+ possess to be unkilable or unvioable when High 1-A+ type 1s are supposed to all exist on the same framework?

It's possible, although any VS thread involving two High 1-A+ Type 1 characters would likely end as Inconclusive, since they would both be able to actualize any logical possibility, making it impossible to determine a victor.

Q5: As a follow-up to the previous question, what is even the range or "peremeters" of High 1-A+ type 1s? Because based on other threads I have skimmed through, people are saying that there can be High 1-A type 1 realms, layers, et cetera. And that while High 1-A+ type 2s are essentially superior to type 1s that they still exist "on the same framework". So how big is the gap then exactly? How big can the gap between individual High 1-A type 1s reasonably be? Can it be on the level between a regular pedestrian and a reality-warper that treats the entire world as a fictional play?

I don't know where you got this from, but this is untrue. High 1-A+ Type 1s possess full access to the set of all possible worlds, and can therefore actualize any logically possible scenario. There can only be one set of all possible worlds, and so there cannot be any "layers" between Type 1s.

Q6: Is it possible for a verse to make a leap from, say, 2-A or 1-C to High 1-A, without there necessarily being a "1-A realm"? And if so, are there examples of High 1-A structures or worlds in the absence of 1-A ones in a verse?

Generally no. High 1-A is defined in terms of 1-A, being defined as an R>F transcendence over an R>F framework. You would need an R>F framework to be transcended in order to prove such a thing.

Q7: What's the highest a High 1-A can be statistics wise? Not High 1-A+ type 1, but rather, how many meta qualitative layers over High 1-A?

High 1-A+ is the limit. There is no "line" between High 1-A and High 1-A+, because you can continue the "meta-qualitative" process forever.

You can have "infinite meta-qualitative superiority" as in "[meta-meta-meta- ... -meta]-qualitative superiority", and a framework that transcends that, which I'll call "super-qualitative superiority".

You can then have "infinite super-qualitative superiority", and a framework that transcends that, "ultra-qualitative superiority".

You can continue this process forever, coming up with terms like "giga-qualitative" or "omega-qualitative" in order to express higher levels of transcendence. There's no limit to it.

High 1-A+ is the apex of this entire process, the set of all conceivable extensions of it.

Q8: Does R>F transcendance only apply to 1-A structure and characters, or could it also apply in the context of either High 1-A or High 1-A+? As in, would it be a disqualifier if from the perspective of a supposed High 1-A(+) being, everything outside of them or lower to their existence is fiction, a dream, or dreams inside dreams, et cetera?

No, this is fine, so long as they meet the other qualifications for the tier they're at.

Q9: If a (High) 1-A realm exerts influence on a low 1-A or High 1-B structure, does that disqualify the former of being (High) 1-A? Because I thought that the problem of disqualification was solely that nothing from the lower domain could quantitatively reach or become (High) 1-A because the latter is ontologically superior and discontinuous and therefore irreducible to the former. The only way it can be bridged from "low to high" is by the intervention of a higher being, i.e. an entity from at least the level of that qualitatively superior domain. But I have also read somewhere that it would be a disqualification if a (High) 1-A entity or world were to exert its essence or power upon qualitatively inferior domain because to said entity or world it should all be just indistinguishable smoke. But I am not sure if the nature of it being all indistinguishable and discontinuous prevents a higher being from shaping and influencing said worlds regardless.
So for instance, if one were to say that the qualitatively superior reality/domain "bleeds into" or "transmits information to" the qualitatively inferior reality (in this case a High 1-B world) that would be grounds for a disqualifier?

Again, this is fine, a (High) 1-A entity can affect a lower reality either through manifesting an avatar, or directly altering the substrate of the lower reality, like how an author might edit a novel.

Q10: If a (High) 1-A(+) cosmological structure contains information of qualitatively inferior worlds (e.g. souls á la afterlife, the infinite possibilities of material reality that exist in a Platonic fashion beyond the actual material reality) does reduce the cosmological structure to simply being a higher set within the qualitatively inferior world, and thereby disqualify it from being (High) 1-A(+)?

I need clarification on what you mean here in order to give an answer.

Q11: Is it possible to retroactively make the base reality of a verse 1-A (or higher) through R>F transcendance, or is R>F only legitimate when it concerns stories from the perspective of characters transcending from fiction to reality?

Generally, we take the layer of the fiction's main setting as "baseline". Anything qualitatively inferior to this baseline is 11-C, while anything qualitatively superior is obviously 1-A.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Q1: Can a verse have more than one profile or character that is High 1-A+ Type 2? And if not, can an exception be made if the several characters are effectively one and the same entity--as in, they "embody the framework of all possible worlds" but they are individually subjective expressions of the same "entity" or "force"?

Yes. However, it's only possible if there's only one character that's actually High 1-A+ (Type 2) but the two profiles are different names or views of it. That is the exact "exception" you described. However, if there is any noted difference between the characters, such as one encompassing or being able to do something that others don't/can't.

Q2: Is it an anti-feat for R>F transcendance if the qualitatively superior reality is also depicted as a 3D universe where there is matter, space, and time, even if said reality is ontologically discontinuous or transcending the "lower reality"?

That isn't an anti feat. In fact, that is generally how it is. Each higher level of reality can have its own concept of Space and Time. One example is Villainess Level 99

Q3: Can 1-A, High 1-A, and High 1-A+ realms and "spaces" be depicted as material worlds where people can eat, sleep, drink, undergo change, do things, et cetera--or would that be an anti-feat?

1-A and High 1-A are fine even if the "space" is material/physical, as long as it is a qualitatively (or meta-qualitatively) higher thing. However, the same can't be said for Tier High 1-A+, as it is the set of all logically possible things. So describing it as "material", which is only one genus among many possible ones, is an anti feat. However, there are always exceptions, and one such is if the "material world" isn't high 1-A+ (type 2) but type 1. It is what Demon King Daimaou's Afterlife used to be before it was degraded. That is, a world that by default is material but can transform into any logically possible world.

Q4: Can two High 1-A+ type 1 characters kill one another? And if so, what kind of attribute must a High 1-A+ possess to be unkilable or unvioable when High 1-A+ type 1s are supposed to all exist on the same framework?

No. As High 1-A+ (type 1) can realize any logically possible things (unless there are things that are specifically set to be illogical by the ground of logic (tier 0). So they should be able to always realize the possibility of them reviving or not being defeated.

Q5: As a follow-up to the previous question, what is even the range or "peremeters" of High 1-A+ type 1s? Because based on other threads I have skimmed through, people are saying that there can be High 1-A type 1 realms, layers, et cetera. And that while High 1-A+ type 2s are essentially superior to type 1s that they still exist "on the same framework". So how big is the gap then exactly? How big can the gap between individual High 1-A type 1s reasonably be? Can it be on the level between a regular pedestrian and a reality-warper that treats the entire world as a fictional play?

Their Range is High 1-A+ as well as they can realize/effect any arbitrarily high logically possible world. However, they can't affect the whole set of all logically possible worlds at once. That's something only a tier 0 can do.

I assume by "high 1-A type 1" you mean high 1-A+, so to answer that question, there's not a large difference. We can think of it as the difference between a person that can do anything and everything inside the house (type 1) in comparison to the house itself (type 2).

Q6: Is it possible for a verse to make a leap from, say, 2-A or 1-C to High 1-A, without there necessarily being a "1-A realm"? And if so, are there examples of High 1-A structures or worlds in the absence of 1-A ones in a verse?

There can be as long as they meet some specific set requirements. For example, if they were supposed to be a tier 0 but found to have anti-feats, you could skip 1-A and get right to high 1-A or even high 1-A+. You could also do it another way and transcend the distinction (> in r>f) between the baseline reality and qualitatively lesser realities (such as 11-C), since the difference between 1-A and baseline reality is the same as the difference between the baseline level and a qualitatively lesser level.

Q7: What's the highest a High 1-A can be statistics wise? Not High 1-A+ type 1, but rather, how many meta qualitative layers over High 1-A?

Any amount. The layers could be Infinite, Uncountably Infinite, Inaccessibly Infinite, and any higher number. There really is no limit to how many layers a high 1-A can have, because the set of all logically possible worlds would always be bigger.

Q8: Does R>F transcendance only apply to 1-A structure and characters, or could it also apply in the context of either High 1-A or High 1-A+? As in, would it be a disqualifier if from the perspective of a supposed High 1-A(+) being, everything outside of them or lower to their existence is fiction, a dream, or dreams inside dreams, et cetera?

No, it's just one of the common ways to get 1-A, but it's not limited to 1-A itself. For example, Umineko is High 1-A currently despite all of it being based on R>F (Or Chessboard analogy). It just depends on how the verse puts it. High 1-A+ can also have R>F as, in a sense, it is the only true/essential genus (existence itself) with all other qualities being accidental. So a verse could describe the difference between essential and accidental genus as R>F. Even a tier 0 can work on R>F, where a tier 0 is the dreamer and all of reality (high 1-A+) is their dream.

Q9: If a (High) 1-A realm exerts influence on a low 1-A or High 1-B structure, does that disqualify the former of being (High) 1-A? Because I thought that the problem of disqualification was solely that nothing from the lower domain could quantitatively reach or become (High) 1-A because the latter is ontologically superior and discontinuous and therefore irreducible to the former. The only way it can be bridged from "low to high" is by the intervention of a higher being, i.e. an entity from at least the level of that qualitatively superior domain. But I have also read somewhere that it would be a disqualification if a (High) 1-A entity or world were to exert its essence or power upon qualitatively inferior domain because to said entity or world it should all be just indistinguishable smoke. But I am not sure if the nature of it being all indistinguishable and discontinuous prevents a higher being from shaping and influencing said worlds regardless.
So for instance, if one were to say that the qualitatively superior reality/domain "bleeds into" or "transmits information to" the qualitatively inferior reality (in this case a High 1-B world) that would be grounds for a disqualifier?

It doesn't disqualify it unless the high 1-A or 1-A is doing so physically. The default assumption is that they can influence a lower reality. For your given example, it all depends on how a verse defines those things. Verse mechanics, so it's a case by case judgement

Q10: If a (High) 1-A(+) cosmological structure contains information of qualitatively inferior worlds (e.g. souls á la afterlife, the infinite possibilities of material reality that exist in a Platonic fashion beyond the actual material reality) does reduce the cosmological structure to simply being a higher set within the qualitatively inferior world, and thereby disqualify it from being (High) 1-A(+)?

No. A lower reality can be a "possibility" inside a higher reality for as long as it remains as a possibility incapable of physically exerting influence or affecting anything.

Q11: Is it possible to retroactively make the base reality of a verse 1-A (or higher) through R>F transcendance, or is R>F only legitimate when it concerns stories from the perspective of characters transcending from fiction to reality?

Usually no, we treat the baseline reality as non 1-A, realities below it as 11-C and those higher than it to 1-A. But you could sometimes get around it by defining the "baseline reality". In Villainess lvl 99 for example, Yumiella was originally from a normal world without magic. That should have been the baseline reality, but as the majority of the series takes place inside the game, we treat that as the baseline reality instead.