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Even if we did, when was the last time stamina was relevant to anything other than to be a category on a profile?
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Does anyone else think that a stamina ranking system would be useful?
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Guts vs Sayaka and Madoka vs Cirno, stamina was brought up for both.
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I'll give you the second one, but the vast majority of vs battles do not consider stamina as a factor at all.
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No but when it does, for example, Madoka and Cirno were both rated the same but they were vastly different and stamina actually played a role in said fight as Madoka relied on kiting and outlasting. Yet they wwre both rated the same and yet it is wrong despite playing a role in said match Im not saying gotta change every profile but all future profiles should abide by some standard and the popular ones should be changed
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Why don't you just get someone to fix the relevant pages as opposed to suggesting a wide-scale implausible and unnecessary change like this?
I get where you're coming from, but there's a number of issues, and one of the big ones is that stamina is not something that can be easily quantified. It's better to just list a person's feats under their stamina, similarly to intelligence.
I get where you're coming from, but there's a number of issues, and one of the big ones is that stamina is not something that can be easily quantified. It's better to just list a person's feats under their stamina, similarly to intelligence.
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I'm not trying to impliment a drastic change all at once. Matter of fact, just add it to the very bottom of everything anyone in the staff has to do, and even then, just introduce it to newly made pages. As for it being hard to quantify, that's what the discussion on it should be about here-- bouncing off ideas to see if we can come up with a good system. Part of the reason why this kind of thing is seen as impossible is because it's a lot of thought that no one cares to do. But I think that it would be great, in addition to being good for people like me who come here to see how strong characters are in general. This wiki and types like it aren't just for the VS community, they're for people who just love strong characters in fiction and want to see all the powers and feats and junk.
I think that we can come up with an effective system that's better than the current one, for accuracy and cataloging's sake. Like I said, no revisions all at once, and people have agreed that a small change over time would be a good idea. Hell, if it's really that hard, I could help with it, if it's needed.
I think that we can come up with an effective system that's better than the current one, for accuracy and cataloging's sake. Like I said, no revisions all at once, and people have agreed that a small change over time would be a good idea. Hell, if it's really that hard, I could help with it, if it's needed.
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The Everlasting said:
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It would be a huge ammount of work and effort through over 10000 pages in regards to a particular statistic that is handled pretty well as it currently is (as far as I'm concerned) and does not really need a system, frankly speaking.
In other words, unnecessary work.
To every rule there are exceptions - Madoka vs Cirno was an exception to the fact that it's extremely rare to find a situation where the stamina stats isn't good/accurate enough as is. And even when that rarely becomes a thing in one thread or another, it can be very much solved by someone debating in said thread to explain how long the character in question may or may not last.
More often than not, these stats are perfectly fine as is. (Edit: Don't mind the "reply to" above.)
In other words, unnecessary work.
To every rule there are exceptions - Madoka vs Cirno was an exception to the fact that it's extremely rare to find a situation where the stamina stats isn't good/accurate enough as is. And even when that rarely becomes a thing in one thread or another, it can be very much solved by someone debating in said thread to explain how long the character in question may or may not last.
More often than not, these stats are perfectly fine as is. (Edit: Don't mind the "reply to" above.)
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Then we gotta list feats or have better justification for their rating. Simple as that.
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Either that, or remove the initial "ranking" and just list stamina feats. We have shit like Superhuman Little Mac and "extremely high" characters, which doesn't mean anything, and could be used for literally every character in fiction above 9-A. So, the reason I think a stamina system is necessary is because it makes clear where characters stack up against others. You might as well get rid of the whole stat system and just have character pages be glorified respect threads, the way we treat Stamina.
Like, yeah, it's functional as far as it goes, but a Stamina rating would be useful even still. Like I said, we don't have to do a lot of work, moreso make a stamina page and then we can fix the errors whenever. It's not a big deal, it's more of a cosmetic and consistency change rather than a glaring issue.
But seriously, what the hell does "Extremely high" stamina mean. And if we have a listing or something consistent in conveying their stamina level, then why do we need to list a feat in the stamina section. As Unite said, we can just add the change slowly at a pace everyone feels like. The workload isn't big if it's not actually pressing.
Like, yeah, it's functional as far as it goes, but a Stamina rating would be useful even still. Like I said, we don't have to do a lot of work, moreso make a stamina page and then we can fix the errors whenever. It's not a big deal, it's more of a cosmetic and consistency change rather than a glaring issue.
But seriously, what the hell does "Extremely high" stamina mean. And if we have a listing or something consistent in conveying their stamina level, then why do we need to list a feat in the stamina section. As Unite said, we can just add the change slowly at a pace everyone feels like. The workload isn't big if it's not actually pressing.
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Like, Goku's stamina is listed as "in: VS Battles Wiki Son Goku Table of Contents
I'm the Saiyan who came all the way from Earth with the sole purpose of beating you. I am the warrior you've heard of in legends. Pure of heart and awakened by fury, that's what I am. I am the Super Saiyan! Son Goku! Goku to Frieza Summary
Goku (Õ¡½ µéƒþ®║, Son Gokü), born Kakarot (Òé½Òé½Òâ¡ÒââÒâê, Kakarotto), is the main protagonist of the Dragon Ball metaseries created by Akira Toriyama. He is one of the last pure-blooded Saiyans.
Powers and Stats
Tier: Low 5-B to 5-B | At least Low 4-C to 4-C | High 4-C | 4-B | 3-A
Name: Son Goku/Kakarot
Origin: Dragon Ball
Gender: Male
Age: 12 years old at the start of Part I. 46 or 49 years old during the Universe 6 Saga (Uncertain birth date. Spent 3 years in the Room of Spirit and Time)
Classification: Alien (Saiya-jin [Saiyan in the English Adaptations]), Martial Artist, Deity
Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Master Hand-to-Hand Combatant, Afterimage Creation, Flight, Chi Manipulation for defensive (Can use his ki to enhance his natural durability, create a barrier to resist poison attacks and harden his skin to the extent he's able to block sword attacks from a fellow Super Saiyan with only his finger) and offensive (Can shoot ki blasts capable of crossing thousands of kilometers and blowing up entire planets) purposes, Can create flashes of light to blind his opponents, Telepathy and Mind Reading, Telekinesis, Ki Sensing, Can transform to increase his power even further (Can either use his Kaioken technique to get up to a 20x boost linearly in all of his stats or use his Super Saiyan transformations up to 3 for an even greater boost in all stats), Teleportation, His power increases substantially each time he recovers from nearly fatal injuries, Resistance towards Electricity | Ki Absorption as a Super Saiyan God (Also can't be sensed by beings lesser than a "God"), Sealing (Via the Mafuba), Forcefield Creation. Resistance to the following: Time Stop as SSBKKx10 (Repeatedly resisted Hit's attempts to freeze him in time until the latter powered up), and Soul Destruction.
Attack Potency: Small Planet level (Fought Raditz along with Piccolo) to Planet level (After King Kai training, he was strong enough to fight and defeat Nappa and then later stalemated and overpowered Vegeta's Galick Gun that had enough power to destroy the Earth) | At least Small Star level+, increased to Star level+ as Super Saiyan (Fought against and ultimately defeated Frieza in his final form) | Large Star level, increased to Large Star level+ as Full Power Super Saiyan | Solar System level (Far superior to Gohan in Cell Saga and superior to Innocent Buu even when not being serious, said he could have defeated Kid Buu if he ended the fight quickly) | Universe level (Beginning in BoG, Goku as a Super Saiyan God had begun to destroy the universe and Afterlife [Which far exceeds the size of the universe] in his clash with Beerus, and then proceeded to power up even more so before absorbing the power of SSJG to his base. In RoF, even his base has far exceeded the levels obtained in his match with Beerus, and can now go even further through transforming into a Super Saiyan Blue. In the U6 Arc, he managed to combine Kaio-Ken with SSJB, and is now capable of reaching up to a ten-times boost. During the Goku Black Arc, Goku had to endure many zenkais, to the point that he doesn't need KKx10 to fight against Hit as a SSJB. As of now, he can contend with Hit level enemies by only using SSJG.)
Speed: Sub-Relativistic+ (Base). Relativistic with Kaioken in Combat Speed, Reactions and Short Burst Speed | FTL (Base). FTL+ (With Kaioken). FTL+ (Super Saiyan Form) in Combat Speed, Reactions and Short Burst Speed | At least FTL+ in Combat Speed, Reactions and Short Burst Speed (Can fight toe to toe with Perfect Cell) | At least FTL+ in Combat Speed, Reactions and Short Burst Speed (Should be comparable to Kid Buu) | Massively FTL+ (Could keep up with Beerus, when the latter was holding back)
Lifting Strength: Unknown
Striking Strength: Planet Class (Superior to Full Power Vegeta using Kaio-ken) | At least Small Star Class+, increased to Star Class+ (As a Super Saiyan, he managed to completely curbstomp Frieza) | Large Star Class, increased to Large Star Class+ (Can trade blows with Perfect Cell) | Solar System Class (Far stronger than SSJ2 Gohan; could fight evenly against Majin Vegeta as a SSJ2 and then went toe to toe against various forms of Majin Buu and managed to injure Innocent and Kid Buu) | Universal
Durability: Small Planet level to Planet level | At least Small Star level+, increased to Star level+ as Super Saiyan | Large Star level, increased to Large Star level+ | Solar System level | Universe level
Stamina: Very High in both his base and Super Saiyan forms (Can train for days with minimal rest and have long drawn out fights). Upon reaching SSJ3, his stamina is low enough that SSJ3 is almost useless against any fighter strong enough to use it against, as it can only be maintained for a few minutes. In Battle of Gods, his stamina is now high enough to use SSJ3 with the same effort he would use to enter SSJ2 in the past." None of this is helpful. He could be "Athlete Level" for all we know, or even Peak Human. An hour is a long time for a fight, so Goku's likely peak human or something (not serious). This is what I mean. If Stamina isn't important in battles, why list it, and if it is, why do a terribly half-assed job?
I'm the Saiyan who came all the way from Earth with the sole purpose of beating you. I am the warrior you've heard of in legends. Pure of heart and awakened by fury, that's what I am. I am the Super Saiyan! Son Goku! Goku to Frieza Summary
Goku (Õ¡½ µéƒþ®║, Son Gokü), born Kakarot (Òé½Òé½Òâ¡ÒââÒâê, Kakarotto), is the main protagonist of the Dragon Ball metaseries created by Akira Toriyama. He is one of the last pure-blooded Saiyans.
Powers and Stats
Tier: Low 5-B to 5-B | At least Low 4-C to 4-C | High 4-C | 4-B | 3-A
Name: Son Goku/Kakarot
Origin: Dragon Ball
Gender: Male
Age: 12 years old at the start of Part I. 46 or 49 years old during the Universe 6 Saga (Uncertain birth date. Spent 3 years in the Room of Spirit and Time)
Classification: Alien (Saiya-jin [Saiyan in the English Adaptations]), Martial Artist, Deity
Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Master Hand-to-Hand Combatant, Afterimage Creation, Flight, Chi Manipulation for defensive (Can use his ki to enhance his natural durability, create a barrier to resist poison attacks and harden his skin to the extent he's able to block sword attacks from a fellow Super Saiyan with only his finger) and offensive (Can shoot ki blasts capable of crossing thousands of kilometers and blowing up entire planets) purposes, Can create flashes of light to blind his opponents, Telepathy and Mind Reading, Telekinesis, Ki Sensing, Can transform to increase his power even further (Can either use his Kaioken technique to get up to a 20x boost linearly in all of his stats or use his Super Saiyan transformations up to 3 for an even greater boost in all stats), Teleportation, His power increases substantially each time he recovers from nearly fatal injuries, Resistance towards Electricity | Ki Absorption as a Super Saiyan God (Also can't be sensed by beings lesser than a "God"), Sealing (Via the Mafuba), Forcefield Creation. Resistance to the following: Time Stop as SSBKKx10 (Repeatedly resisted Hit's attempts to freeze him in time until the latter powered up), and Soul Destruction.
Attack Potency: Small Planet level (Fought Raditz along with Piccolo) to Planet level (After King Kai training, he was strong enough to fight and defeat Nappa and then later stalemated and overpowered Vegeta's Galick Gun that had enough power to destroy the Earth) | At least Small Star level+, increased to Star level+ as Super Saiyan (Fought against and ultimately defeated Frieza in his final form) | Large Star level, increased to Large Star level+ as Full Power Super Saiyan | Solar System level (Far superior to Gohan in Cell Saga and superior to Innocent Buu even when not being serious, said he could have defeated Kid Buu if he ended the fight quickly) | Universe level (Beginning in BoG, Goku as a Super Saiyan God had begun to destroy the universe and Afterlife [Which far exceeds the size of the universe] in his clash with Beerus, and then proceeded to power up even more so before absorbing the power of SSJG to his base. In RoF, even his base has far exceeded the levels obtained in his match with Beerus, and can now go even further through transforming into a Super Saiyan Blue. In the U6 Arc, he managed to combine Kaio-Ken with SSJB, and is now capable of reaching up to a ten-times boost. During the Goku Black Arc, Goku had to endure many zenkais, to the point that he doesn't need KKx10 to fight against Hit as a SSJB. As of now, he can contend with Hit level enemies by only using SSJG.)
Speed: Sub-Relativistic+ (Base). Relativistic with Kaioken in Combat Speed, Reactions and Short Burst Speed | FTL (Base). FTL+ (With Kaioken). FTL+ (Super Saiyan Form) in Combat Speed, Reactions and Short Burst Speed | At least FTL+ in Combat Speed, Reactions and Short Burst Speed (Can fight toe to toe with Perfect Cell) | At least FTL+ in Combat Speed, Reactions and Short Burst Speed (Should be comparable to Kid Buu) | Massively FTL+ (Could keep up with Beerus, when the latter was holding back)
Lifting Strength: Unknown
Striking Strength: Planet Class (Superior to Full Power Vegeta using Kaio-ken) | At least Small Star Class+, increased to Star Class+ (As a Super Saiyan, he managed to completely curbstomp Frieza) | Large Star Class, increased to Large Star Class+ (Can trade blows with Perfect Cell) | Solar System Class (Far stronger than SSJ2 Gohan; could fight evenly against Majin Vegeta as a SSJ2 and then went toe to toe against various forms of Majin Buu and managed to injure Innocent and Kid Buu) | Universal
Durability: Small Planet level to Planet level | At least Small Star level+, increased to Star level+ as Super Saiyan | Large Star level, increased to Large Star level+ | Solar System level | Universe level
Stamina: Very High in both his base and Super Saiyan forms (Can train for days with minimal rest and have long drawn out fights). Upon reaching SSJ3, his stamina is low enough that SSJ3 is almost useless against any fighter strong enough to use it against, as it can only be maintained for a few minutes. In Battle of Gods, his stamina is now high enough to use SSJ3 with the same effort he would use to enter SSJ2 in the past." None of this is helpful. He could be "Athlete Level" for all we know, or even Peak Human. An hour is a long time for a fight, so Goku's likely peak human or something (not serious). This is what I mean. If Stamina isn't important in battles, why list it, and if it is, why do a terribly half-assed job?
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"And if we have a listing or something consistent in conveying their stamina level, then why do we need to list a feat in the stamina section."
Because it's hard to gauge stamina. There are characters who can do things like survive and fight with lethal injuries for an extended period of time, which is significantly better than just being able to fight for like an hour straight even if it's not as long, and if we use stamina rankings we can't really account for these things because of how clear cut they'd have to be. It simply wouldn't work.
Because it's hard to gauge stamina. There are characters who can do things like survive and fight with lethal injuries for an extended period of time, which is significantly better than just being able to fight for like an hour straight even if it's not as long, and if we use stamina rankings we can't really account for these things because of how clear cut they'd have to be. It simply wouldn't work.
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I don't really see the benefit to quantifying stamina. It's a wiki-wide revision with a lot of hard work, for little results. Stamina isn't brought up much in threads, but in those cases it does, you can just as easily debate it there.
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I mean, like I said, it wasn't intended to be a huge change all at once, we could add it in nice and slow, if at all. Either way, if what I had a problem with was fixed, it would be almost every page on the wiki anyway. If you've seen the Goku sheet (awesome revisions btw) the stamina stat isn't clear. At all. This is true for a lot of pages on the wiki.
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Agreed.
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