Do we consider Yashahime canon to the original manga?

[Nullflowerblush]

'S what it says on the tin.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I didn't even know there was a manga version of Yashahime, I only knew it as Anime only.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I probably should have phrased the question better.

Does the Wiki consider Yashahime to be canon to the manga or just the anime? Is it a weird DBS/Boruto thing?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, we do consider it a canon sequal to the original Manga and it does seem to make some of the animated movies also canon.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Hrm.
That is rather troublesome.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

we do consider it a canon sequal to the original Manga

Why "Yashahime: Princess Half-Demon" is not canon to "Inuyasha (1996)"

docs.google.com

Would this be enough evidence to prove otherwise?
Not trying to go into a CRT underequipped.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The original Anime is actually considered secondary canon, more information here. Plus, there are story details that imply more relation from the manga, such as Naraku's fate is more implied what happens in the manga is accurate. Such as his soul being destroyed when he had a surprisingly peaceful transfer to the afterlife in the Final Act Anime.

I will note a contradiction that in the original manga, it was implied that Toga died from his fight with Ryukotsusei, but Yashahime added more context that while it was the wounds he got from Ryukotsusei that ultimately led to his death, it was his collapsing mansion in his fight with Takemaru that killed him. Which is what happens in one of the movies.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The original Anime is actually considered secondary canon, more information here.

That doesn't actually explain anything. That Wiki places the anime on the level of secondary canon but doesn't really explain why it would be considered as such.

while it was the wounds he got from Ryukotsusei that ultimately led to his death, it was his collapsing mansion in his fight with Takemaru that killed him.

It is funny you mention that, because in the scene where Toga confronts Takemaru in the mansion, he is not shown to be injured at all. Unless Ryukotsusei hit him with poison or a non-physical attack, Toga should've been in immense, debilitating pain, considering those wounds were said to have led to his death.

Even still, "the wounds he got from Ryukotsusei led to his death" and "he died after being collapsed by a burning mansion" are mutually exclusive. Either he succumbed to his wounds inflicted by Ryukotsusei after their battle, or he died in battle against Takemaru. They cannot both be correct, because he wasn't wounded going into the battle with Takemaru, nor was he on the verge of death; and, if it couldn't've happened the other way around, because Toga would've been crushed before he got to face Ryukotsusei.

There are also a bunch of contradictions and inconsistencies between Yashahime and the manga.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yashahime is what's contextually trying to make them both correct.

Edit: this was actually the interview I was looking for.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

There are just way too many contradictions for that to be true on top of the statements about Yashahime being anime-exclusive.

One notable contradiction is the fact that in Episode 25, Sesshomaru bestows to Towa a broken Tenseiga. This could not be the case, because in both the original manga and in The Final Act, Tenseiga is perfectly intact following the battle between brothers, with Sesshomaru using the blade against Naraku.

There are also those listed here; Hitokon being slain in Chapter 359 and randomly reappearing in Episode 3 of Yashahime: Princess Half-Demon as though nothing ever happened; the debut of Ginka and Kinka in Episode 10 is completely ripped from their first appearance in the manga in Chapter 146, despite the fact that — get this — they died shortly after to Moryomaru; Meioju, who was taken away from his home and absorbed by Moryomaru in Chapter 403 reappears in Episode 9 of Yashahime as a skeleton in his home waters; the Rainbow Pearls were created over two hundreds in the past, and Naraku never thought to retrieve them; etc.

Oh, and my personal favorite.
"Their father thought long and hard about whether he should even use it himself."
"Which is, no doubt, why he cut it out of Tetsusaiga and placed it in another blade — one he intended to discard." (Chapter 461, page 6)

Then, in Yashahime, Toga is shown using Meido Zangetsuha with Tetsusaiga with Tessaiga at his waist.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't see how the 1st one is a contradiction; if we don't see how it got broken. Could have happened during the time skip for all we know. It's not full proof if there's only one Hitokon or if they can be ressurrected. Plenty of demons have been revived before by things shown in Hanyou like the Rainbow Pearls. Rainbow pearls were created by Zero over the heart break of losing Toga; which is another thing explained in the movies.

"Thinking long and hard about it" seems to have happened before that. And it apparently doesn't stop him from being capable of it as long as he has both swords in possession.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I don't see how the 1st one is a contradiction; if we don't see how it got broken. Could have happened during the time skip for all we know.

I got things mixed up. Sesshomaru gave Towa the Tenseiga after it had already been broken by Zero. My apologies.

It's not full proof if there's only one Hitokon or if they can be ressurrected.

Do we have prove there are more with that specific, proper name?

Plenty of demons have been revived before by things shown in Hanyou like the Rainbow Pearls.

Nothing ever suggests that Ginka and Kinka were resurrected by the Rainbow Pearls, especially considering the former was absorbed by Moryomaru. And nothing ever suggests that the Rainbow Pearls restored Meioju's physical form and carried him back to his home after Moryomaru — and subsequently, Naraku — absorbed. Hell, those demons being a part of Naraku when he was destroyed ensures that they could not have come back, thanks to Sesshomaru.

"Thinking long and hard about it" seems to have happened before that.

The thinking long and hard was the reason he chose to split the Tenseiga and the Meido Zangetsuha from Tetsusaiga. Despite that sealing Meido Zangetsuha inside of the former sword, however, Toga could still use the ability with the latter, which is self-contradictory. In order for him to have done that, he would have had to break Tenseiga against Tetsusaiga and stole its power once more, which is not only completely stupid and pointless considering he created Tenseiga specifically and with the sole purpose of removing the Meido Zangetsuha from Tetsusaiga, his primary weapon of choice, as to ensure he would not misuse the ability, but completely out-of-character because, once again, the only reason Toga even created Tenseiga from Tetsusaiga was so that he could discard Tenseiga and the Meido Zangetsuha to make sure he would never misuse its power. There is no reason for him to use Tenseiga or the Meido Zangetsuha, regardless of what sword its power lies in, and there is even less reason for its power to reside within Tetsusaiga.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Edit: this was actually the interview I was looking for.

Again, Rumiko Takahashi has little involvement with the actual production of the story. Her hand in the creation of these scripts extends to supervising the plot and making sure that these stories do not completely break the pre-established lore of the series, which apparently, not even "Swords of an Honorable Ruler" could do, considering its bevy of continuity errors.

Besides, even if these movies were capable of perfectly slipping into the canon of the original series — much like Dragon Ball Z's "Lord Slug" and "Cooler's Revenge" can — nothing in that interview states that they do slip into the canon; nothing in that interview states that they are canon, just that they do not break the canon.

Rumiko Takahashi giving Sumisawa a thumbs up in response to his script means very little unless she says something along the lines of, "Yeah, this goes right along with my original manga". This excerpt is no difference from the ones in the "R.T.'s involvement??" section of the document.

 

[KLOL506]

The original Anime is actually considered secondary canon, more information here. Plus, there are story details that imply more relation from the manga, such as Naraku's fate is more implied what happens in the manga is accurate. Such as his soul being destroyed when he had a surprisingly peaceful transfer to the afterlife in the Final Act Anime.

I will note a contradiction that in the original manga, it was implied that Tago died from his fight with Ryukotsusei, but Yashahime added more context that while it was the wounds he got from Ryukotsusei that ultimately led to his death, it was his collapsing mansion in his fight with Takemaru that killed him. Which is what happens in one of the movies.

Dude. TOGA. His name is Toga LOL

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I got things mixed up. Sesshomaru gave Towa the Tenseiga after it had already been broken by Zero. My apologies.

Fair

Do we have prove there are more with that specific, proper name?

Hitokon is just a fodder demon, it's not like their existence would have any major relevance

Nothing ever suggests that Ginka and Kinka were resurrected by the Rainbow Pearls, especially considering the former was absorbed by Moryomaru. And nothing ever suggests that the Rainbow Pearls restored Meioju's physical form and carried him back to his home after Moryomaru — and subsequently, Naraku — absorbed. Hell, those demons being a part of Naraku when he was destroyed ensures that they could not have come back, thanks to Sesshomaru.

You do realize Meioju is an entire species of turtle demons correct? But I don't have defense for Ginka and Kinka atm, but they're affiliated with that Ka Demon tribe and Joka is the leader of said clan. And actually, there is known influences of various demons being revived by Rainbow pearls.

The thinking long and hard was the reason he chose to split the Tenseiga and the Meido Zangetsuha from Tetsusaiga. Despite that sealing Meido Zangetsuha inside of the former sword, however, Toga could still use the ability with the latter, which is self-contradictory. In order for him to have done that, he would have had to break Tenseiga against Tetsusaiga and stole its power once more, which is not only completely stupid and pointless considering he created Tenseiga specifically and with the sole purpose of removing the Meido Zangetsuha from Tetsusaiga, his primary weapon of choice, as to ensure he would not misuse the ability, but completely out-of-character because, once again, the only reason Toga even created Tenseiga from Tetsusaiga was so that he could discard Tenseiga and the Meido Zangetsuha to make sure he would never misuse its power. There is no reason for him to use Tenseiga or the Meido Zangetsuha, regardless of what sword its power lies in, and there is even less reason for its power to reside within Tetsusaiga.

Personal rants about lazy writing isn't really a counter argument. It is very weird, but it apparently did not disable the ability when he uses it.

Also, RT having little involvement doesn't mean she doesn't consider it canon. Which is the opposite of what she said, it's more or less similar to how Toriyama simply wrote the plot outline of Dragon Ball Super when the manga writers and Anime producers took those outline as they will. Also, Legend of Korra has contradictions that imply it having continuity errors with ATLA, but that doesn't make that series non-canon. Also, "Anime Exclusive" is simply a word to describe the medium in that there's only an Anime version of Yashihime; and there's no manga for it at least not yet.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Hitokon is just a fodder demon, it's not like their existence would have any major relevance

Again, there is no proof that there are multiple Hitokon existing in the wild. There are plenty of nameless, superfluous demons that the gang encounter in swarms, but Hitokon is not one of those. Additionally, Hitokon is not the only root demon around; there are various different root demons, one of them being Root Head. So, to claim that Hitokon isn't a singular entity without providing proof of existence of multiple of them is fallacious.

And actually, there is known influences of various demons being revived by Rainbow pearls.

And again, nothing suggests the Rainbow Pearls had anything to do with Ginka and Kinka.

it's more or less similar to how Toriyama simply wrote the plot outline of Dragon Ball Super when the manga writers and Anime producers took those outline as they will

The difference between Dragon Ball Super and Yashahime is that the former is hardly contradictory to its source material and both versions have several, explicit statements of being canon and taking after the original manga, with Toriyama actually providing an outline for them to adapt from. In the case of Yashahime, there are several statements that suggest it takes after the anime, multiple glaring contradictions to the original series, and is a completely original story that Rumiko Takahashi simply okayed.

adjusts tie
They are not the same.

 

[Urshani]

Rumiko Takahashi simply okayed.

If the creator okays it, it is canon. Sorry but it's true.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Rumiko Takahashi okayed InuYasha: The Secret of the Cursed Mask and even created the two main protagonists. Hell, there is even a half an hour of anime footage exclusive to the game. Do we consider that canon?

 

[Urshani]

Rumiko Takahashi okayed InuYasha: The Secret of the Cursed Mask and even created the two main protagonists. Hell, there is even a half an hour of anime footage exclusive to the game. Do we consider that canon?

Yes. If not, we should.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Please bring DDM back.

 

[Urshani]

Please bring DDM back.

It's too late, mommy ain't here to save you now

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have never heard a statement about Secret of the Cursed Masked or any of the video games being canon; and the interview only said the movies, Yashahime, and Anime filler fit into the original timeline and parts of Anime that do not conflict with the manga.

Also, yes that is the other point is that Root Yokai is an entire species. There are multiple demonic trees like them and they can spawn multiple roots. If Mistress Centipede can have a granddaughter named Mistress Three Eyes, why can't Root Yokai? Even so, all flying head roots are called Hitokon. Also, I double checked and there was another error. You were thinking of Ne No Kubi; Hitokon never really appears in Yashahime; they appear in Final Act. Which is not Yashahime and part of an Anime adaptation. Though, the 1st episode of Yashahime is an adaptation of the "InuYasha Since Then" Manga, which marked the debut of Ne No Kubi. But still, chronologically, Ne No Kubi never made appearance till after Naraku is dead. So that's not really much of a contradiction anymore.

Also, I double checked. Ginga and Kinka also appear in the Final Act Anime and the same thing happens to them there than in the Manga. So it does not contradict the Manga anymore than it does the Anime. But there is still the flaw of there being no explanation for their return. But the reason for it has something to do with Towa and Setsuna's relationship. So take that as you will.

Actually the would be contradictions would inherently apply to both versions; manga and anime as explained above. With some of them not being contradictions anymore after some correction. Plus, she specifically states it's canon to her original work.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

the interview only said the movies, Yashahime, and Anime filler fit into the original timeline and parts of Anime that do not conflict with the manga.

Woah, woah, woah. Slow down there, Speed Racer.

The question, directed towards Sumisawa and not Rumiko Takahashi, was: "You wrote all four movies, which were completely original. How did you manage that without breaking canon?" Once again, even though Sumisawa assures the audience that the movies do not break the lore of the original story, using the praises he receives from Rumiko Takahashi as the reasoning, he never so far as to actually state that the movies were part of the canon. Again, 'd hate to be the guy to reference other franchises, but a special like "Dragon Ball: Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!" is still considered non-canon on the Wiki despite having actual, noteworthy involvement from the original creator Toriyama, who wrote the outline for the story, while also refraining from breaking the lore of the original series. Why should these movies be any different?

Sumisawa stated that he managed to write the movies without "leaving a single dent on Rumiko-sensei's atmosphere" but never at one point ever states that, "Rumiko-sensei accepted these scripts into the canon of the original manga". Unless there is another interview out there where either Sumisawa or preferably Rumiko Takahashi addresses these movies and confirms they are genuinely canon to the original series — not just ambiguously not non-canon, like the likes of "Dead Zone" and "Cooler's Revenge" — these movies should be treated as non-canon.

Simple as that.

Unless you were referencing another, not-yet linked interview?

Also, yes that is the other point is that Root Yokai is an entire species.

Yes. "Root demon" is a species. "Hitokon" is not.

If Mistress Centipede can have a granddaughter named Mistress Three Eyes, why can't Root Yokai?

Burden of proof is on you to prove that Hitokon either duplicated itself or had offspring.

Even so, all flying head roots are called Hitokon.

The only "flying head root" to ever be seen in the original manga is Hitokon. Where did this "all" come from? Who is this "all"?

Hitokon never really appears in Yashahime

"The Hitokon chose its host."
Not just only ol' Hitokon. The, the one and only, Hitokon attached itself to Towa.

But the reason for it has something to do with Towa and Setsuna's relationship. So take that as you will.

Really?
Could you, erm, provide proof of that statement?

Ginka and Kinka just appear before the main gang and engage with each other in the exact same way they did back in the original series — nearly line-for-line, shot-for-shot — almost as if their memories were erased and they completely forgot all about the battle with Moryomaru for whatever reason. Even their introductions, that being they randomly appear in random villages and begin rampaging against each other, is ripped straight from the original series, without any explanation as to why they have returned from the grave — no Rainbow Pearls, no Shikon Jewel, no reincarnation, zilch.

Actually the would be contradictions would inherently apply to both versions; manga and anime as explained above.

Even more evidence against Yashahime then.
"The story itself is created in a way that one can enjoy it without having any knowledge of 'Inuyasha'."

Plus, she specifically states it's canon to her original work.

Where?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

yo?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

oro?

 

[Xxiaa]

This thread might need to be continued

 

[Nierre]

I know this is a necro but I'd also like to know the answer to this as well - and I'd rather not make another thread addressing the same question.

So where are we right now. Is Yashahime canon to the manga or not?

Also a follow up question: Are any of the movies canon to the manga?