Destiny: Guardian Downgrade

[CNBA3]

I think the guardians should be downgrades from the multiversal stat because they never really had the strength to harm Panoptes, rather, they simply found the means to incapacitate him.

 

[Archaron]

Not exactly, the guardian when faced with panoptes is never said that he would not have chances, Osiris always prevented panoptes from erasing the guardian of the forest, since it happened before, and that would be a existence erasure, since everything that happens in the forest is real even being only simulations, Panoptes sought to erase the guardian, but it would not necessarily erase it, just expelled him and Osiris prevented it and the guardian did the rest. Just to see that Osiris only appeared to prevent the deletion of the guardian nothing more.

 

[WHYNAUT]

I think it should be added that the guardians tier can vary greatly. One moment they're having a tough fight with a small army of normal alien soldiers and the other moment they're slaying gods. It just seems weird to me that guardians have a 4-B and a 2-A rating when alot of the time they're fighting against far weaker beings, that can still harm them.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I agree,and it isn't game mechanics unlike raid scenarios and certain boss fights.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

>Guardians are actually rated as 2-A

oh my ******* god what

 

[Antvasima]

Should they be downgraded then?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I mean, we had big discussions about the tiers in Destiny (the Oryx thread is technically still going on, I'm just now getting enough time to potentially contribute properly, again).

The Guardian should scale to material Oryx, who is going to become "At least 5-C, likely 4-B".

2-A is insanity, right now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems fine.

 

[CNBA3]

Guardians should scale to material oryx (Solar System), while this ascendant form is a little tricky since Guardians technically play with the sword logic as well since ascendant oryx is universe level or higher

 

[WHYNAUT]

I mean, we had big discussions about the tiers in Destiny (the Oryx thread is technically still going on, I'm just now getting enough time to potentially contribute properly, again).
The Guardian should scale to material Oryx, who is going to become "At least 5-C, likely 4-B".

2-A is insanity, right now.

I agree

 

[CNBA3]

Not exactly, the guardian when faced with panoptes is never said that he would not have chances, Osiris always prevented panoptes from erasing the guardian of the forest, since it happened before, and that would be a existence erasure, since everything that happens in the forest is real even being only simulations, Panoptes sought to erase the guardian, but it would not necessarily erase it, just expelled him and Osiris prevented it and the guardian did the rest. Just to see that Osiris only appeared to prevent the deletion of the guardian nothing more.

Actually if I am going to be thoroughly honest, I think it is Osiris that should possibly remain as 2-A as he was the one that technically managed to briefly stop Panoptes and is described as the mightiest of the Guardians.

 

[Archaron]

I mean, we had big discussions about the tiers in Destiny (the Oryx thread is technically still going on, I'm just now getting enough time to potentially contribute properly, again).

The Guardian should scale to material Oryx, who is going to become "At least 5-C, likely 4-B".

2-A is insanity, right now.

This is so little to too much for the guardian, in the new expansion the death of cayde created a throne world for hiraks, I really agree with a discussion about the levels in destiny.

 

[WHYNAUT]

They're pretty confusing, because cayde was having trouble with just a bunch of scorn. And yet his death made the Mindbender's throne world alot bigger. Maybe guardians are just glass cannons with lots of rsistances.

 

[CNBA3]

Even fodder units are strong in their own rights, they have weapons that can destroy targets down to their elementary particles, and they manage to tank and/or spunge them, even our own weaponry have impressive feats/stats too.

 

[Archaron]

The sword logic works with the law of defeating beings stronger than you, this makes you stronger with his death, is not said and left no space for requirement of how the death of cayde does open spaces to "confusing" the mindbender to have a throne world with his death. As you know the subordinates of mindbender along with others who defeated cayde, but only one of them possesses the sword logic.

 

[WHYNAUT]

I meant that the levels in destiny are confusing.

 

[Archaron]

is not, in itself has a very detailed context, and destiny is full of facts it is easy to climb the problem is always that there are some find one thing and others find something else, what happens to find X feat is made better for D for H character. In a way, everyone has a different view to the levels of so much they exist.

 

[Rocker1189]

So what is going on with this because personally even 4-B is ridiculous for Guardians, I was thinking 5-C should be the max they get but whatever. Like I thought it was canon that the Guardians basically have ridiculously high luck/are being led throgugh a perfect path by The Traveller.

 

[Archaron]

4-B is ridiculous OMG what??? ridiculous will be a guardian who is as "at most" 4-B. 5-C is another level very ridiculous for him, because, what is not lacking is the guardian defeating entities Low 2-C+. And what story is that of high luck, where you took it, against atheon same, they did the own "fate", but according to you are just the traveler and their high luck guiding them WTF.

 

[Rocker1189]

Look dude, it is kinda hard to think that the guardians are anywhere near 5-C when they are literally fighting some mooks in story and making it look hard. Like this is only a level of difference in showings and their stats we have on there that I have never seen before(when not counting vocaloid that actually had ridiculous on screen showings). If they are 4-B then whatever but dont be surprised if people keep asking why the heck they are at that level every few weeks.

 

[Wokistan]

Nah tiers 5 and 4 are legit. There's quite a lot of showings in that range.

 

[Rocker1189]

Nah tiers 5 and 4 are legit. There's quite a lot of showings in that range.

Could you point me to them?

 

[Wokistan]

Guardians mostly scale to people who have higher feats, we don't use the logic of "fodder can damage you so scale to fodder". Can we wait and do all this stuff in the one thread that we're actually going to finalize everything in though instead of making like 8 revision threads?

 

[CNBA3]

Actually in lore there are high level enemies even a Fallen Kell that managed to challenge godly characters like material Oryx before.

 

[Rocker1189]

Well I had no clue there were revision threads and just came across this. I never said fodder can damage you so you scale to fodder,, but fodder that damaged someone unconventionally should certainly not scale to that person.

 

[CNBA3]

I merely made this it of curiousity really, I had no real expectations for revisions to be done, just expressing a critique of mine.

 

[Rocker1189]

I merely made this it of curiousity really, I had no real expectations for revisions to be done, just expressing a critique of mine.

Dont worry it is valid, especially with the way Destiny works. going from people killing mooks to people killing Gods. Especially since you cant call it game mechanics.

 

[Wokistan]

PC guardians are generally waaaay stronger than almost every other guardian. The Vanguard and Osiris are the only ones I can really think of comparable to PCs.

 

[Rocker1189]

PC guardians are generally waaaay stronger than almost every other guardian. The Vanguard and Osiris are the only ones I can really think of comparable to PCs.

Yeah I know that, but unless you are telling me that PC guardian is quite literally an ungodly number of order of magnitudes above normal guardians I really dont think you can put them at such a ridiculous tier.

Like as I was reading through Warpriest stuff(which even that seemed out there including the sisters), I was thinking "welp guess the guardians would be something ridiculous like 5-C" boom 4-B like.....what?

 

[CNBA3]

But that's the thing even Destiny is making gameplay, PvP, PvE and certain events part of the lore as well, not just the campaign, strikes or raids. Even certain PC guardians become part of the lore iirc. But it is a matter of actually how "a" Guardian's story goes.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here?

 

[CNBA3]

I think it is inconclusive. To many opinions going left and right.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[CNBA3]

Okay.

If you want to lock go ahead

 

[Antvasima]

Didn't Azathoth say that the characters are supposed to get downgraded?

 

[CNBA3]

he said other discussions are on going, he was stating his opinion they should be downgraded

 

[Wokistan]

Downgrading 2-A is fine at least, but in general just wait a bit on these.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but it is unlikely that anything will happen here in this thread then?

 

[CNBA3]

With Atheon profile out now, I am not so sure either of the change, I guess there is nothing left for this thread

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. What do you think Wokistan?