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Deku VS Goku (GRACE)

Thedoctor said:
I don't derail anything, everything I said was about the match so I don't know what your talking about
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You talked about how Goku should be moon level based off power level scaling not used. That‘s revision material, this thread is only using the stats on his profile.

If you don’t want to derail, I suggest that you work with what you have. The High 8-C on his profile is used, and this is what you Should use if you want to participate and be productive
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
He also has access to his Smokescreen, and Goku hasn't learned how to sense ki yet, so this could give Deku a distraction and let him land a few solid hits on Goku.
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I don't think Smokescreen would be very effective on Goku as before he learned to sense ki. he was capable of locating small, distinct objects by tracking their smell, seeing clearly over long distances, and is able to track the movements of others, even in pitch-black conditions by feeling vibrations in the air
 
Acer__ said:
You talked about how Goku should be moon level based off power level scaling not used. That‘s revision material, this thread is only using the stats on his profile.

If you don’t want to derail, I suggest that you work with what you have. The High 8-C on his profile is used, and this is what you Should use if you want to participate and be productive
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I said he fought people who are moon level and he's probably Multi-City Block level during the RRA saga he doesn't become moon level+ until the king piccolo saga
 
AceOfSpaces3709 said:
I don't think Smokescreen would be very effective on Goku as before he learned to sense ki. he was capable of locating small, distinct objects by tracking their smell, seeing clearly over long distances, and is able to track the movements of others, even in pitch-black conditions by feeling vibrations in the air
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At least it can blind him once
 
General Tao was able to one hit kill General Blue who is 3.72 Tons with a strike from his tongue. Izuku cannot harm Goku, as his attacks are weaker than General Blue. Who's attacks produce less power than what Tao can produce with his tongue. Which is an absurd difference in hindsight.

Fa Jin is a limited move, that can only be used for two strikes (Possibly four?) before having to charge again. Fa Jin is capable of boosting Izuku's stats to be capable of breaking the limbs of someone comparable to himself in durability. So it could do damage to Goku, but nothing serious. And Izuku will have to charge it up afterward.

Blackwhip is pointless, since we have no idea if he can use Fa Jin on it and Goku is superior in terms of Lifting Strength so he can easily break out.

Goku is far better at fighting up close, and would dominate in a up close battle. He can harm Izuku with any of his attacks, as the gap between 3.72 and 11 is only 3X. And Goku is scaling above a man who one shotted a 3.72 Ton character with his tongue. While Izuku can only harm Goku with Fa Jin amped attacks.

I'm voting Goku with minimal difficulty.
 
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TheRustyOne said:
General Tao was able to one hit kill General Blue who is 3.72 Tons with a strike from his tongue. Izuku cannot harm Goku, as his attacks are weaker than General Blue. Who's attacks produce less power than what Tao can produce with his tongue. Which is an absurd difference in hindsight.

Fa Jin is a limited move, that can only be used for two strikes (Possibly four?) before having to charge again. Fa Jin is capable of boosting Izuku's stats to be capable of breaking the limbs of someone comparable to himself in durability. So it could do damage to Goku, but nothing serious. And Izuku will have to charge it up afterward.

Blackwhip is pointless, since we have no idea if he can use Fa Jin on it and Goku is superior in terms of Lifting Strength so he can easily break out.

Goku is far better at fighting up close, and would dominate in a up close battle. He can harm Izuku with any of his attacks, as the gap between 3.72 and 11 is only 3X. And Goku is scaling above a man who one shotted a 3.72 Ton character with his tongue. While Izuku can only harm Goku with Fa Jin amped attacks.

I'm voting Goku with minimal difficulty.
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What about danger sense?
 
What about Danger Sense, it doesn't help Izuku all that much here. It warns him of danger, not like it tells him the optimal way to avoid something or whatever.

Danger Sense warns him of danger, which will be obvious when he is also seeing an attack coming towards him. Honestly Danger Sense isn't useful in hand to hand combat, but for ranged attacks or stealth moments the Quirk is good. But warning Izuku of danger when he can already see his opponent doesn't help him.

I guess it'll help if Goku ever tries a faint attack or something. But Goku's straightforward fighting style, and hand to hand combat skill means Danger Sense has very little use.
 
TheRustyOne said:
General Tao was able to one hit kill General Blue who is 3.72 Tons with a strike from his tongue. Izuku cannot harm Goku, as his attacks are weaker than General Blue. Who's attacks produce less power than what Tao can produce with his tongue. Which is an absurd difference in hindsight.

Fa Jin is a limited move, that can only be used for two strikes (Possibly four?) before having to charge again. Fa Jin is capable of boosting Izuku's stats to be capable of breaking the limbs of someone comparable to himself in durability. So it could do damage to Goku, but nothing serious. And Izuku will have to charge it up afterward.

Blackwhip is pointless, since we have no idea if he can use Fa Jin on it and Goku is superior in terms of Lifting Strength so he can easily break out.

Goku is far better at fighting up close, and would dominate in a up close battle. He can harm Izuku with any of his attacks, as the gap between 3.72 and 11 is only 3X. And Goku is scaling above a man who one shotted a 3.72 Ton character with his tongue. While Izuku can only harm Goku with Fa Jin amped attacks.

I'm voting Goku with minimal difficulty.
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I will say Deku scales far Higher then 2.7 as it was in his JT arc key that he got the rating and it’s been two arcs and an entire Jump of ~5.625x safe OFA percentage (20% hurt to use in JT). I do agree that goku is better at fighting up close, but both the iron soles and mid gauntlets (Which cover is arms and legs) are both mountain level in durability, meaning that Goku will probably break his hands if he tries to punch and his strike gets blocked by one of them (which is my only to say Danger sense is useful as we see Deku block with his hands, and thus the Mid Gauntlets would be blocking here). Also Analytical prediction helped him win in what should have been game over odds (like against Nagant, the best marksman in Japan who was over a km away covered by heavy rain). Also his durability being 8-B is helped by his massive pain tolerance, as in base during JT Arc (again, massively weaker then this version of base) he was hit by attacks that are 3x his AP and took them in stride (though he was in pain they didn’t keep him down for more then a few seconds), going 3x below his durability likely wouldn’t be much help (even if Goku scales massively above it).

Also the iron soles give a double impact, even assuming Deku’s base attacks do little to nothing they still will essentially be multiplied by two as even during the war we see him still focusing on kicks, and they themselves have high 7-A durability so goku can’t exactly punch them (Not likely to happen, but punches just seem to clash a lot in anime) without shattering his hand on the metal.

and even if ALL that goes south he still has the float and blackwhip combo. Get out of Goku’s melee range to charge Fa-Jin and pressure him with black whip, we’ve seen him make 8 or 9 with a single swipe so all those are gonna keep Goku on his toes. (And despite the LS gap, we’ve seen them used as spears vs Shigaraki, so they are “useless” without Fa-jin or LS advantage)

Though given Goku’s skill and AP advantage I do think this is a high diff fight
 
He would not break his hands? What are you on about, are you mad? The gauntlets aren't going to attack him. Goku's never hurt himself via recoil, that makes no sense.

Blackwhip is worthless, and he never used them as spears like you said. Only when it went berserk, he never attacks with them only restrain.

Izuku is 2.7 Tons, unknown amount higher. That is not enough to cover the gap of to 3.7 Tons, which is one shotted by someone's tongue, who is inferior to Goku. Izuku is like 3 Tons at the very best, and that is wanking. We do not upscale like that.

Iron Soles do not double his attack power, we removed that from his profile for a reason. Two people hitting a single person at the same time doesn't mean two times attack, in this case this is not a two times increase. It's two 2.7 attacks that happen one after the other. 2.7 can't hurt Goku, getting hit by two 2.7 attacks means nothing.

Nothing you provided explains anyway that Izuku can finish off Goku who takes no damage from Izuku's attack. At best Fa Jin can slightly harm him, Izuku will need dozens on dozens of Fa Jin attacks, which he needs to charge after two hits in order to defeat Goku. Ignoring the fact Goku can dodge, and won't take much damage.

Goku is massively superior to Izuku in hand to hand combat, that I can see him beating him without a single scratch on him.
 
TheRustyOne said:
He would not break his hands? What are you on about, are you mad? The gauntlets aren't going to attack him. Goku's never hurt himself via recoil, that makes no sense.
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1. Rude
2. We’ve never seen them be impacted because there isn’t a 147849462.366x gap, even if Goku scales massively above it’s the same thing you said for Deku, an unknown amount higher, “in universe one shots aren’t counted“ Right? The strikes from Deku aren’t just gonna phase through him from sheer weakness, he’s in the same situation as Goku is with his AP, he’s an “unknown amount higher”
3. Fa-Jin‘s portion is only half right, it’s then energy he stores from repeated motions, if he chooses he could throw all of it into one attack or keep using minimal to keep it for later.
4. Yeah, that’s why I said “essentially” I didn’t say Deku’s ap is gonna be multiplied by two I said the damage goku takes from a kick is gonna be twice what Deku’s ap is, because the kick is going to be two strikes in one, Ap ain’t multiplied by 2, Goku is going to take 1 2.7 strike, and the a second 2.7 strike, if we think of his health as a meter is going down by 2.7 twice.
5. Yeah, Goku is superior in hand to hand? Why would Deku, someone who is an active strategist and planner, stay in an unwinnable fight, of course he’s gonna go at range, he fights Bakugou who can fire off what is essentially a rapid fire ki barrage with ap auto:Cannon and the Kamehameha has the obviously tell of, idk, the entire wind up?
 
As said by an administrator on the Akuma vs Tsunade thread “No multiplier is given for both characters, we can just assume they unquantifiably scale above the bottom of their scaling chain.” Goku scales up from tao who one shots general blue. Deku massively up scales from his previous base which up scales from his JT base, they are both an unquantifiable amount higher
 
Midoriya's upscaling is negated by Goku's AP advantage. Basically 3 tons still has an advantage over >>>>>>>2 tons, and Goku is >>>3 tons. So Goku wins.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Midoriya's upscaling is negated by Goku's AP advantage. Basically 3 tons still has an advantage over >>>>>>>2 tons, and Goku is >>>3 tons. So Goku wins.
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If they both scale, an unquantifiable amount higher, then from what I’ve seen, we don’t just say that the Character with the >>>Higher Ap wins, we just assume that they both are equally scaling above the minimum tier, or it’s still the same difference.

If Goku really did one shot Deku with any attack, this is a stomp in Goku’s favor and can’t be added.
 
Acer__ said:
If they both scale, an unquantifiable amount higher, then from what I’ve seen, we don’t just say that the Character with the >>>Higher Ap wins, we just assume that they both are equally scaling above the minimum tier, or it’s still the same difference.

If Goku really did one shot Deku with any attack, this is a stomp in Goku’s favor and can’t be added.
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No we don't assume that.
I agree this seems like a tao vs blue but far worse.
 
It may not be a stomp, it sounds very decisive tho. Goku upscales from a ton greater value, so he’s gonna be man handling deku here.
 
He can try to fight. He’s prob gonna do decent damage if he lands hit’s, but the ap advantage means that hes gonna be hurtin way more then goku. Dekus powers make it a closer match, but nothing really stops goku from just, hitting him.
 
StekFence said:
He can try to fight. He’s prob gonna do decent damage if he lands hit’s, but the ap advantage means that hes gonna be hurtin way more then goku. Dekus powers make it a closer match, but nothing really stops goku from just, hitting him.
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Ah ok so he can do damage? rusty was saying earlier that Deku’s strikes would do no damage, which is why we thought it was a stomp.

Though you think that his ability to charge fa-jin and use black whip from a range would help? He used PinPoint focus V lady Nagant, so we know that it can be used as an attack ever when not out of control, a Fa-Jin would boost his strikes enormously when it has enough energy. Also the iron soles essentially giving him a second kick when he hits probably helps.
 
i mean, the difference is about 1.3 in ap, so it shouldn’t be that crazy, especially with dekus buffs, the issue is it’s gonna be harder for him to land hits and or stop himself from receiving these more powerful hits becuase goku skill and rpl goes brrr.
 
StekFence said:
i mean, the difference is about 1.3 in ap, so it shouldn’t be that crazy, especially with dekus buffs, the issue is it’s gonna be harder for him to land hits and or stop himself from receiving these more powerful hits becuase goku skill goes brrr.
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Skill gap go brrrrrrrrrrr

i don’t think It’d be unreasonable to hit goku and block hits, given Deku’s near god tier Analytical Prediction (Predicting the shot from the best marksman in Japan from the location she was after she fired the bullet in heavy rain), but I’d say he would take a lot of hits
 
Also what is base Deku’s AP based off of? What calculation is used to justify that, just to better understand the AP scaling here. In my personal opinion, I don’t see this as a stomp, though after having seen the above arguments, I think I’ll change my vote to Goku due to his greater AP. Regardless, I think that Deku’s battle experience and additional quirks could still give him an edge in the fight, so I disagree about it being an overwhelming victory for Goku, more like a mid to high-difficult win for him.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
Also what is base Deku’s AP based off of? What calculation is used to justify that, just to better understand the AP scaling here. In my personal opinion, I don’t see this as a stomp, though after having seen the above arguments, I think I’ll change my vote to Goku due to his greater AP. Regardless, I think that Deku’s battle experience and additional quirks could still give him an edge in the fight, so I disagree about it being an overwhelming victory for Goku, more like a mid to high-difficult win for him.
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Deku’s AP is based off Monama being several times weaker then his 8%, the high end of that is 8.12/3 or 2.7(with others after it but their to small to matter). However that was in the Joint Training Arc, while Current Deku is several times stronger
 
Acer__ said:
Deku’s AP is based off Monama being several times weaker then his 8%, the high end of that is 8.12/3 or 2.7(with others after it but their to small to matter). However that was in the Joint Training Arc, while Current Deku is several times stronger
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Evidence for him being several times stronger?

That's make him High 8-C+ in that case.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Evidence for him being several times stronger?

That's make him High 8-C+ in that case.
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Because he massively upscales? I say several in the same way that you talk about Goku’s ap because he massively upscales, people who previously posed a threat to his base are fodder in terms of AP
 
Acer__ said:
I’m trying my best I have no knowledge of terminology just what other people say.
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Mate don't say things if you don't know what they mean. This is actual life advice. Trust me if you don't follow this then you will experience life events that will haunt you in bed at night.
 
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