DC Comics - Atrocitus Rework and Upgrade (Post-Crisis)

[LordGriffin1000]

This man's hate boner for Sinestro, and the Guardians is unrivalled.

Here's our current version.

Here's my reworked version.

As always, I focued on adding missing powers, descriptions, scans, and references.

Important Notes

1. Atrocitus needed a varies key because his power factors in his rage, as the scan shows in the sandbox, Atrocitus stated that the Red Lantern mera's growing hatred was not only empowering her but it empowered him as well. And he even says the crimson light feels an even greater rage which was the Spectre.

2. His 4-B tier comes from him being able to fight and harm 4-B characters such as Sinestro and Hal Jordan.

3. His 2-C, possibly 2-A tier comes from his feats of fighting and harming the Butcher's (One of the Emotional Spectrum Entities) host who could hurt the Spectre. He also harmed the himself Spectre as well. This shouldn't be an outlier because Atrocitus becomes more powerful when his rage grows and when he's in the presence of rage. Both the Spectre and the Butcher have intense rage and the latter is the literal entity of rage so Atrocitus at his peak levels of power should scale and as far as I'm aware, the Emotional Spectrum entities are all at least somewhat comparable to each other.

4. Everything on the profile is post-crisis only. I did not go into post-flashpoint because his profile was strictly his post-crisis self.

That should be it. His match with Sinestro will also be removed since their profiles are outdated (well now only Sinestro's will be outdated). I hope this helps, all feedback is helpful

 

[Vondoom]

Empowerment and Rage Power (Atrocitus is empowered by the red light of the Emotional Spectrum known as rage. He and the other Red Lanterns also gain power the more their rage grows and from rage of others[13]),

Isn't this Reactive power level or Accelerated development also? As they keep getting stronger from their rage and that of others.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Empowerment and Rage Power (Atrocitus is empowered by the red light of the Emotional Spectrum known as rage. He and the other Red Lanterns also gain power the more their rage grows and from rage of others[13]),

Isn't this Reactive power level or Accelerated development also? As they keep getting stronger from their rage and that of others.

Pretty sure it doesn't last. Those I think are for permanent buffs.

 

[Vondoom]

Accelerated Development

Accelerated Development is the ability to raise one's statistics and/or abilities at a much faster pace than a normal character in the setting is able to. Users of this ability are able to reap the fruits of their training with far less effort and time than most, with some characters improving...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I don't think it needs to be permanent based on how some are time to time.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I guess it could also be Accelerated Development. I'll wait and see if more people think and if they agree, I'll add it.

 

[LordTracer]

Seeing Atrocitus with 2-C/2-A just reminds me of how Hal got robbed of those stats

Rework looks great.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Seeing Atrocitus with 2-C/2-A just reminds me of how Hal got robbed of those stats

That's odd given from what I've been reading, the Lanterns powers are dependent on their emotional sorce and I've seen Hal do crazy stuff with his higher willpower at specific moments.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Looks good

 

[LordTracer]

That's odd given from what I've been reading, the Lanterns powers are dependent on their emotional sorce and I've seen Hal do crazy stuff with his higher willpower at specific moments.

Yeah, he’s easily got the feats for it. Guess it’s a matter of someone going through and putting together a big CRT for him, but 1,000+ appearances makes that difficult.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Looks nice, I agree

 

[Mariogoods]

It seems fine.

Looks like DC revision becomes active and it is a good thing, I assume.

 

[Vondoom]

Accelerated Development

Accelerated Development is the ability to raise one's statistics and/or abilities at a much faster pace than a normal character in the setting is able to. Users of this ability are able to reap the fruits of their training with far less effort and time than most, with some characters improving...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I don't think it needs to be permanent based on how some are time to time.

I guess it could also be Accelerated Development. I'll wait and see if more people think and if they agree, I'll add it.

Seeing Atrocitus with 2-C/2-A just reminds me of how Hal got robbed of those stats

Rework looks great.

Looks good

Lordtracer and Sir Maverick, what do you think?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Add non-physical interaction for harming spectre and the butcher, they're abstracts. Why didn't you add a pre red lantern key? His clairvoyance should also be precognition and the divining rod would be optional equipment and should only be there with prep time. In Green Lantern 2005 #61, he locates the position of the Butcher with the ritual. You should add that as its one of the more combat applicable examples of his precognition

 

[Firestorm808]

Ability suggestions:

• Magic via Rituals | Has he shown anything beyond just ritual stuff?
• Absorption via Divining Rod | It's equipment and separate from blood absorption stuff.

Will look into the Tiering stuff later.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Isn't 2-C to 2-A too much of an outlier for Atrocitus? It is good if we all always try to keep in mind that DC Comics and particularly Marvel Comics usually run on the everybody can fight everybody principle.

Except for that the new page seems good to me.

 

[LordTracer]

Why would it be an outlier? It’s his peak strength and nobody scales to it.

Although @LordGriffin1000 you should probably format his second key’s tiers as “Varies, usually 4-B, up to 2-C, possibly 2-A at his peak”

 

[Antvasima]

Did he use some kind of power-up at the time, canonically hold back immensely, or somesuch?

 

[LordTracer]

He’s a Lantern, his power level canonically Varies. He is usually at a 4-B level, 2-C/2-A is just the peak of his power.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, canonically the entire Green Lantern Corps was required just to contain galaxy-destroying power in their fight with The Anti-Monitor, and that was written by the same author as for The Butcher fight, Geoff Johnns, so 2-A seems far far too high for Atrocitus, a character that is only supposed to be equal in power to strong single Green Lanterns.

Kyle Rayner on his own had to strain himself to his limits to contain a supernova in Grant Morrison's JLA comic book, Hal Jordan almost emptied his power ring of its charge when generating a supernova level of energy in his own comic book many years later also written by Grant Morrison, and Alan Scott at his peak can canonically only destroy a solar system, and these are their by far greatest explicit power display feats that I know about, so it would still immensely mess up the coherence of our DC Comics scaling system if we suddenly give all Green Lantern level characters 2-C to 2-A power levels, and have to scale all other major associated superheroes and supervillains to them. My apologies.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

He was in the presence of the entity of rage, I don’t see why it would be considered an outlier

 

[Antvasima]

Do you mean that he used it as a power-enhancing energy-source?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Do you mean that he used it as a power-enhancing energy-source?

Atrocitys gains power from the rage of others, so kinda?

 

[LordTracer]

Well, canonically the entire Green Lantern Corps was required just to contain galaxy-destroying power in their fight with The Anti-Monitor, and that was written by the same author as for The Butcher fight, Geoff Johnns, so 2-A seems far far too high for Atrocitus, a character that is only supposed to be equal in power to strong single Green Lanterns.

And where are you getting the notion that he’s “supposed” to be equal to a single Green Lantern? The scans that Griffin gathered in the OP, even for Atrocitus’ normal power level, show that he can contend with multiple people on that level at the same time.

Kyle Rayner on his own had to strain himself to his limits to contain a supernova in Grant Morrison's JLA comic book, Hal Jordan almost emptied his power ring of its charge when generating a supernova level of energy in his own comic book many years later also written by Grant Morrison, and Alan Scott at his peak can canonically only destroy a solar system, and these are their by far greatest explicit power display feats that I know about, so it would still immensely mess up the coherence of our DC Comics scaling system if we suddenly give all Green Lantern level characters 2-C to 2-A power levels, and have to scale all other major associated superheroes and supervillains to them. My apologies.

Literally nobody said to give every Green Lantern 2-C/2-A or to scale every character off of them, you’re creating an argument that isn’t there.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Add non-physical interaction for harming spectre and the butcher, they're abstracts.

They seem to be in a physical state when he interacted with them.

Why didn't you add a pre red lantern key?

Didn't think it was worth a key but I grabbed some scans and add the key.

His clairvoyance should also be precognition and the divining rod would be optional equipment and should only be there with prep time. In Green Lantern 2005 #61, he locates the position of the Butcher with the ritual. You should add that as its one of the more combat applicable examples of his precognition

I've added that stuff.

Ability suggestions:

• Magic via Rituals | Has he shown anything beyond just ritual stuff?

No. The blood rituals are the only "magic" thing he's done to my knowledge. That's why it's Magic, Clairvoyance, and Precognition (Insert description) that explains it's a blood ritual and thus magic.

• Absorption via Divining Rod | It's equipment and separate from blood absorption stuff.

I've added it as equipment, and it was already separated from his Blood Absorption. I've split the tabber though so it should be fine now.

Hmm. Isn't 2-C to 2-A too much of an outlier for Atrocitus? It is good if we all always try to keep in mind that DC Comics and particularly Marvel Comics usually run on the everybody can fight everybody principle.

Except for that the new page seems good to me.

That's just it though, Atrocitus grows in power when his rage builds and from the rage of those around him. He was only able to harm the Spectre and the Butcher because both were giving off intense rage and thus buffing Atrocitus to that level. He isn't that strong when others fight him so no one else scales because he wasn't being buffed by those entities at the other points.

I 100% understand that DC comics have inconsistencies but this is different as his power reasonably fluctuates and was only at that peak when against high rage level entities so I think 2-C/2-A is fine as he isn't that powerful normally either unless buffed by high levels of rage.

Why would it be an outlier? It’s his peak strength and nobody scales to it.

Although @LordGriffin1000 you should probably format his second key’s tiers as “Varies, usually 4-B, up to 2-C, possibly 2-A at his peak”

I will do so.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Is pre-red lantern Atrocitus even notable enough to add?

 

[LordTracer]

Is pre-red lantern Atrocitus even notable enough to add?

Should be fine for indexing purposes. I recall that Amelia was going to add similar keys to Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner (both would’ve been 9-A+ via scaling to Batman and Green Arrow, respectively) before she left the wiki.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Is pre-red lantern Atrocitus even notable enough to add?

He has enough feats from what I've gathered in the sandbox so he should be fine.

 

[Antvasima]

And where are you getting the notion that he’s “supposed” to be equal to a single Green Lantern? The scans that Griffin gathered in the OP, even for Atrocitus’ normal power level, show that he can contend with multiple people on that level at the same time.

Okay, but even the entire Green Lantern Corps combined only have a 3-C feat, so it still seems ill-fitting to me.

Literally nobody said to give every Green Lantern 2-C/2-A or to scale every character off of them, you’re creating an argument that isn’t there.

Well, fighting several 4-B characters at once still doesn't remotely seem to justify 2-A statistics as being remotely consistent.

That's just it though, Atrocitus grows in power when his rage builds and from the rage of those around him. He was only able to harm the Spectre and the Butcher because both were giving off intense rage and thus buffing Atrocitus to that level. He isn't that strong when others fight him so no one else scales because he wasn't being buffed by those entities at the other points.

I 100% understand that DC comics have inconsistencies but this is different as his power reasonably fluctuates and was only at that peak when against high rage level entities so I think 2-C/2-A is fine as he isn't that powerful normally either unless buffed by high levels of rage.

Okay. To avoid misunderstandings, it has to be clearly clarified within his page that he canonically grows enormously stronger when fighting beings driven by enormous rage though.

 

[LordTracer]

Okay, but even the entire Green Lantern Corps combined only have a 3-C feat, so it still seems ill-fitting to me.

Imo, the collective GLC only being 3-C is more of an outlier than someone like Hal or Kyle being 2-C/2-A at the peak of their willpower, but that’s a discussion better had in another thread. I don’t want to clog up Griffin’s thread with 2-C/2-A Hal Jordan.

Well, fighting several 4-B characters at once still doesn't remotely seem to justify 2-A statistics as being remotely consistent.

I didn’t say it did? I brought that up because you claimed that Atrocitus is only comparable to singular Green Lanterns.

 

[Armorchompy]

Since there's a Varies mechanism tier 2 seems good (and harmless scaling-wise) to me. Profile overall is good, actually.

 

[Vondoom]

Hmm. Isn't 2-C to 2-A too much of an outlier for Atrocitus? It is good if we all always try to keep in mind that DC Comics and particularly Marvel Comics usually run on the everybody can fight everybody principle.

Except for that the new page seems good to me.

Technically most leaders of lantern Corp kinda deserve to be tier 2.
Hal Jordan
Sinestro
Atrocitus
Larfleeze

Plus Atrocitus goes stronger from his rage and that of others so no outlier.

 

[Antvasima]

Imo, the collective GLC only being 3-C is more of an outlier than someone like Hal or Kyle being 2-C/2-A at the peak of their willpower, but that’s a discussion better had in another thread.

It was clearly defined by Geoff Johnns, who is the by far most prominent GL writer, and individual GLs only have at most 4-B feats at their peaks.

I didn’t say it did? I brought that up because you claimed that Atrocitus is only comparable to singular Green Lanterns.

Okay. My apologies about that then.

 

[Antvasima]

Since there's a Varies mechanism tier 2 seems good (and harmless scaling-wise) to me. Profile overall is good, actually.

That seems fine, yes.

 

[Antvasima]

Technically most leaders of lantern Corp kinda deserve to be tier 2.
Hal Jordan
Sinestro
Atrocitus
Larfleeze

Plus Atrocitus goes stronger from his rage and that of others so no outlier.

Larfleeze, I suppose, as he has the power of an entire emotional spectrum entity, but Hal Jordan very explicitly has to overexert himself to even reach High 4-C feats, so I think that him fighting far stronger characters is just the "everybody can fight everybody" superhero comic book writing convention at work. Marvel Comics is more extreme than DC Comics in this regard, but DC still uses it rather frequently as well.

 

[Armorchompy]

Hal Jordan is 4-B even as we rate him, I don't think him failing to do a High 4-C feat holds up

 

[Vondoom]

Larfleeze, I suppose, as he has the power of an entire emotional spectrum entity, but Hal Jordan very explicitly has to overexert himself to even reach High 4-C feats, so I think that him fighting far stronger characters is just the "everybody can fight everybody" superhero comic book writing convention at work. Marvel Comics is more extreme than DC Comics in this regard, but DC still uses it rather frequently as well.

Not only high end feats can be outliers, even low end feats can also and Hal Jordan at peak qualifies for tier 2 easily.

 

[Antvasima]

Hal Jordan is 4-B even as we rate him, I don't think him failing to do a High 4-C feat holds up

He did a High 4-C feat, and so did Kyle Rayner, but they both overexerted themselves from doing so. They likely both scale to Alan Scott who is 4-B though.

 

[Antvasima]

Not only high end feats can be outliers, even low end feats can also and Hal Jordan at peak qualifies for tier 2 easily.

Oh? Then point out feats of his (or other Green Lanterns) that reach such a scale without powerscaling from other characters that the writers have to let him beat to avoid bad ends to their stories?

 

[Firestorm808]

He did a High 4-C feat, and so did Kyle Rayner, but they both overexerted themselves from doing so. They likely both scale to Alan Scott who is 4-B though.

IIRC, 4-B was Alan Scott self destruct.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Maybe it would be considerably more reliable to rescale the more powerful regular DC Comics superheroes to High 4-C instead then? If we lack reliable 4-B feats to scale from that is.