(DBZ) Piccolo Vs (MP2) Dark Samus

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

We don't know Dark Samus' full speed, but she's casually 2.8x FTL. Piccolo is certainly not MFTL, as the only Buu Saga characters getting the "possibly MFTL" upgrade would be the absolute highest tiers.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

We don't know Dark Samus' full speed, but she's casually 2.8x FTL. Piccolo is certainly not MFTL, as the only Buu Saga characters getting the "possibly MFTL" upgrade would be the absolute highest tiers.

well, goku ssj in namek saga is at least 28 x ftl

and there were mutliple blitzings between then and end of cell saga

+

piccolo trained after than as well

so he wud be at least a few dozen x faster than namek saga frieza

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

We're not scaling DBZ speed like that. That was part of the agreement. Using speed multipliers leads to less than reliable results, so when Goku and Frieza are changed to FTL+, everyone faster will be "FTL+" or "At least FTL+", with characters like Buuhan and Vegito getting "Possibly MFTL".

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

so you will be ignoring all of the blitzings and all of the casual catch ups made in between then?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

You don't even need to be twice as fast as someone to "blitz" them. Especially in DBZ, where almost everything is just power and speed, you can completely destroy an opponent by just being a bit stronger and a bit faster than them.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

but in this case, the characters could literally not even detect their enemy movement to the slightest

and the enemies could keep up with the slower characters without even trying

if the blitzings are not counted, then my take on the topic will be irrelevant

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The problem with "not being able to detect the enemy" is that much of it is unquantifiable, especially when much, much weaker characters are able to get the drop on far stronger characters when, if the stronger characters were truly that fast, they wouldn't be able to. Frieza was far, far stronger than Krillin, but Krillin briefly managed to escape him. I feel stuff like this makes it pretty obvious that speed scaling isn't nearly as linear as power scaling. Hell, just look at Trunks vs Cell. Trunks even sacrificed speed for power, and they made kind of a big deal out of that.

 

[Sheoth]

I like to think of it not as "they are super weak against slightly stronger opponents" but more like "they always get an absurd amount stronger than before which leads to them kicking the weaker persons ass effortlessly."

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

i know its unquantifiable

so i had a certain small scalar multiple set

but if piccolo's speed is unquantifiable to thee exact value, then it wud be the difference betwen winning/drawing and losing

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I like to think of it not as "they are super weak against slightly stronger opponents" but more like "they always get an absurd amount stronger than before which leads to them kicking the weaker persons ass effortlessly."

To be fair, look at Vegeta vs Monster Zarbon and post Zenkai Vegeta vs Monster Zarbon.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

i know its unquantifiable
so i had a certain small scalar multiple set

but if piccolo's speed is unquantifiable to thee exact value, then it wud be the difference betwen winning/drawing and losing

It might not be completely impossible, but it's incredibly hard to do while still being totally rational.

 

[Sheoth]

To be fair, look at Vegeta vs Monster Zarbon and post Zenkai Vegeta vs Monster Zarbon.

Again, it could argued that they simply get much much stronger as opposed to the preceding villain being weak against strong opponents... But I don't really want to argue this right now, it's just my 2 cents.

 

[SomebodyData]

Crap, Azathoth and Sheoth are in the same chat, this is gonna derail into maddness...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

To be fair, look at Vegeta vs Monster Zarbon and post Zenkai Vegeta vs Monster Zarbon.

Again, it could argued that they simply get much much stronger as opposed to the preceding villain being weak against strong opponents... But I don't really want to argue this right now, it's just my 2 cents.
I was more thinking along the lines of Vegeta was superior to Dodoria but weaker than Zarbon, and it had been made clear the difference between the two wasn't exactly astronomical. Vegeta effortlessly wasted Dodoria, but was beaten to near death by Zarbon. After one zenkai boost, he completely wasted Zarbon, but was still fodder next to even the lower tier members of the Ginyu Force (sans Guldo, for...obvious reasons).

 

[Sheoth]

To be fair, look at Vegeta vs Monster Zarbon and post Zenkai Vegeta vs Monster Zarbon. Again, it could argued that they simply get much much stronger as opposed to the preceding villain being weak against strong opponents... But I don't really want to argue this right now, it's just my 2 cents.
I was more thinking along the lines of Vegeta was superior to Dodoria but weaker than Zarbon, and it had been made clear the difference between the two wasn't exactly astronomical. Vegeta effortlessly wasted Dodoria, but was beaten to near death by Zarbon. After one zenkai boost, he completely wasted Zarbon, but was still fodder next to even the lower tier members of the Ginyu Force (sans Guldo, for...obvious reasons).

well he was only weaker to monster zarbon, who's power increased to god knows what after the transformation, so I guess there isn't any real way to accurately tell.

 

[SomebodyData]

I knew this was gonna happen. May the 3 Golden Burecrates save us now...

 

[Sheoth]

I knew this was gonna happen. May the 3 Golden Burecrates save us now...

Sorry friend. One is on vacation, one is accessible few times a week, and one is busy managing another wiki. ONLY YOUR FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD ADMINS. MUAHHAHAHAHA

 

[SomebodyData]

VSBATTLES 2: The Admin Tyrants

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

as expected, the thread has becomea conversation ground, ok, i will join too

 

[Sheoth]

Nah let's try to get back on topic.

 

[Deathstar786]

Travel speed and combat Speed are 2 different things Lmfao.. You may Hit someone while flying at FTL speed but you cannot keep the same thing over and over again that's what's called combating not Lucky hits

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Travel speed and combat Speed are 2 different things Lmfao.. You may Hit someone while flying at FTL speed but you cannot keep the same thing over and over again that's what's called combating not Lucky hits

...Which is why consistently hitting a FTL target gives you FTL reactions.

 

[Deathstar786]

Travel speed and combat Speed are 2 different things Lmfao.. You may Hit someone while flying at FTL speed but you cannot keep the same thing over and over again that's what's called combating not Lucky hits

...Which is why consistently hitting a FTL target gives you FTL reactions.

Reacting and combating is 2 different things that this wiki don't understand

 

[Deathstar786]

Travel speed and combat Speed are 2 different things Lmfao.. You may Hit someone while flying at FTL speed but you cannot keep the same thing over and over again that's what's called combating not Lucky hits

Okay Azzy Tell me when was the last time you saw characters Moving and combating like In DB>?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

No, it's not. That doesn't even make sense. If you're fast enough to react to someone's movements, you're fast enough to fight them.