DBZ Era Saiyan Base Forms

[Dark649]

Base Goku was suppressed when he met Beerus.

 

[Amexim]

Listen to Dark. Dat boi also smart.

 

[Amexim]

We all agree that Frieza in final form should be at least Small Star level—- hell, because Frieza is so high end Dwarf Star level that he might as well be Small Star in his second or third form— saying that Small Star 3rd Form is invalid is ridiculous. Base Goku is Small Star level against Frieza by being stronger than third form. Times 50 SSvputs him at Star level anyway, mathmatically speaking.

 

[Dark649]

Frieza High 5-A+ feat was mostly casual one since he was not unleashing all of his power in rage like he did when he fought Vegeta, so Low 4-C second form Frieza seems oblivious to me, which is higher in third and much higher in final form.

 

[Amexim]

Which makes his current rating valid. But if the gap between Star and Large Star is 2x then Cell Saga base is still Small Star, and Buu Saga base is At Least Large Star. Making base Gohan and Vegeta about Large Star, and the Kids "At Least Star, likely Large Star"

 

[Amexim]

We should definitely clarify this in the profiles so there's no confirmation.

 

[Dark649]

I'm fine with their current rating.

 

[AKM sama]

Frieza High 5-A+ feat was mostly casual one since he was not unleashing all of his power in rage like he did when he fought Vegeta, so Low 4-C second form Frieza seems oblivious to me, which is higher in third and much higher in final form.

I agree with Dark's point. I am also fine with current ratings.

 

[Amexim]

But the point of this was to clarify how strong their base forms are. It's not about downgrading or upgrading, it's clarification on what their base forms are ranked as.

Does anyone agree for Cell saga saiyans to be "At Least Small Star level, likely Star level" in base?

And for Buu Saga, "At Least Star level, likely Large Star" in base.

 

[Amexim]

Justification:

Base Goku and Vegeta should be stronger than Third Form Frieza, who is Small Star level, but they have trained a lot, so it's possible to say that they're around Frieza's final form.

And at Buu Saga, the gap between Frieza and SPCell is so massive that it would be ridiculous to assume that Base Goku is still Third Form Frieza Level, or Small Star+ (as he is likely on the upper end of Small Star at that point), when the gap between Small Star and large Star+ is thousands of times, with basic Star being a small gap in between. The Super Saiyan form isn't that big of a boost, at least 40x and no more than fifty.

 

[Dark649]

I think is unnecessary to add a base rating to the main db characters.

 

[AKM sama]

I think is unnecessary to add a base rating to the main db characters.

Agreed. The highest rating for their transformed states are fine. Base ratings will clutter the profile imo.

 

[Amexim]

It's totally necessary. This question was asked in the first place because of vague information. It wouldn't be too much work to add it in. Besides, the more accurate our profiles are, the better.

 

[Amexim]

Even if it does, we can't just scale Kibito and Yakon off of base forms that we don't have listed.

 

[Therefir]

That would result in clumsy pages, is totally unnecessary.

 

[Amexim]

"Yakon is scaled to base Goku being "At least Small Star level+", while Kibito (and the Tournament of Power humans) are scaled to base Gohan being Large Star level."

This is a clear discrepancy that needs to be fixed, and adding small information would fix it.

 

[Dark649]

Base Goku is already listed, Yakon is scaled from the Frieza Saga Base Goku.

 

[Amexim]

Besides, Goku's page is already cluttered— adding more to a mess doesn't really do much aesthetically. And that's not really an argument against this scaling issue on the profiles anyway— doesn't matter if it isn't aesthetically pleasing if the justifications across profiles due to scaling are impossible to understand

 

[AKM sama]

Well, I am neutral here.

 

[Amexim]

Which suggests that Base Goku hasn't gotten stronger at all— but even that doesn't compare to the Kibito and ToP human scaling off of Buu Saga Gohan's base (pre-Mystic) which would scale to Goku as well, since Goku should be stronger than him. I'm gonna check to see if that's even listed with Gohan's page.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

They should absolutely have Base Stats.

 

[Amexim]

Yup. Even Goten has base stats listed as Star Level, justification being that he shouldn't be far off from his SS form, which is Large Star Level for fighting 18.

 

[Amexim]

Bro, it's as easy as putting "Star Level" on both sagas for the same reasoning as Goten. We shouldn't have to run around profiles just to figure out how strong Goku's base form is.

 

[Dark649]

I'd like to tell you to write one comment at time, rather than writing multiple ones.

 

[Amexim]

You right. But yeah, I think it's necessary to make the information clearer.

 

[Amexim]

Bump

 

[Promestein]

I'm not saying that the Base stats should be listed, but we need to decide on what they are for scaling.

I'm fine with Large Star level.

Scaling them up to Large Star level+ through scaling to Shin is stupid since that leads to Semi-Perfect Cell level base Saiyans. It's more likely that Shin is just misinformed in these cases.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with Prom. What do you think of my suggestion?

 

[Promestein]

I'm fine with that. Star level base for Goten and Trunks and Large Star level for the rest seems fine to me.

So, Large Star level Yakon is the only real change here, besides adding the base stats, if we're gonna do that.

 

[Dark649]

Yakon is slighty stronger than base Frieza Saga Goku, if Vegeta fought him instead of Goku he would have oneshotted him like he did to Pui Pui.

 

[Amexim]

Well, Goku ***** around in fights a lot. Goku should one shot a lot of people.

 

[Dark649]

Even if non-canon Gohan casually oneshotting Frieza should be an example.

 

[Amexim]

That was ultimate Gohan though. So...

 

[Dark649]

That was ultimate Gohan though. So...

In that timeline both Vegeta and Goku were dead. That means that technically Gohan was not Mystic.

But that's not important since i agree with Matt and Prom.

 

[Amexim]

I mean, I was judging by his hairstyle. Gotenks also existed in this timeline so...??? Doesn't matter.

 

[Amexim]

Bump

 

[Amexim]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

I think is unnecessary to add a base rating to the main db characters.

I agree with this.

 

[Antvasima]

Never mind. If you can figure out appropriate ratings, I suppose that I am fine with that.

 

[Amexim]

For Cell saga, "At least Small Star level+, Likely Star level" pre-cell, and for Goku and Gohan against Cell "At least Star+, likely Large Star level against Cell" shouldn't be too far away from SS, which should be Large Star+ Vegeta and Trunks should be "at least Star+, possibly large Star level" against Cell due to them being weaker than the Son family Duo. Buu saga is Large Star level for every adult saiyan.