DBS Super: Golden vs Orange

[CiscoTheSoto]

Golden Frieza vs Orange Piccolo

• Location: Null Realm
• Both in-character
• Starting distance: 100 meters
• Orange Piccolo and Post-Tournament of Power Golden Frieza are used

Golden:

Orange: 7 (@Sir_Marvulous, @Jiren's_Dad, @JaxWolf4, @Eseseso, @jojo123, @SuperStar, @CiscoTheSoto)

Silver:

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

People might assume this is an AP stomp, as Orange Piccolo was capable of holding his own against Cell Max, who was stated to be powerful enough in his complete state that not even Broly would've been able to defeat him. However, he was released prematurely, which I believe impacted both his power level and fighting ability. In addition to that, Orange Piccolo was only able to fight against Cell Max after his weak spot had been targeted by Gotenks and after he'd been critically injured by Gamma 2's self-destruct, with Piccolo later admitting that they would've never been able to defeat Cell Max were he not weakened from the self-destruct. When they fought, Orange Piccolo was dominated by Cell Max in a matter of minutes, so Orange Piccolo was notably inferior.

Golden Frieza was capable of holding his own against Super Saiyan Broly for an entire hour, and despite eventually being defeated, the novel states that his punches could stagger Broly and force him to dodge. Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta working together were barely able to hold their own against Super Saiyan Broly and retreated after less than a minute. So my point is that the difference in power between them shouldn't be too large, even if Orange Piccolo is indeed stronger than Golden Frieza.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

The upscaling is still great enough that Piccolo has the advantage

Golden Frieza could fight against SS Broly until the hour passed and the latter got more serious and also AD'd his way into stomping Golden Frieza

Orange Piccolo can fight against and restrain Cell Max even after being beaten to near death, and the thing scales to FPSS Broly. Sure, he was weakened, but there's still a vast degree of upscaling. Golden Frieza <<< SS Broly <<< FPSS Broly ~ Cell Max

Orange Piccolo decisively takes this

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Golden Frieza could fight against SS Broly until the hour passed and the latter got more serious and also AD'd his way into stomping Golden Frieza

Orange Piccolo can fight against and restrain Cell Max even after being beaten to near death, and the thing scales to FPSS Broly

FPSS Broly >>> SS Gogeta who SS Broly is relative to

Orange Piccolo stomps

I literally explained all the reasons why this is not the case in the first post. Yes, one could argue that Cell Max is comparable or superior to Legendary Super Saiyan Broly in a complete state due to author statements, but the process was interrupted, which weakened him and limited his full potential. His weak spot had already been targeted multiple times before, and visible cracks were showing. Not only that, but Cell Max had been severely weakened by Gamma 2's self-destruct. So all of these factors manage to make Orange Piccolo holding off Cell Max less unbelievable than you make it out to be. Is it impressive? Absolutely, but I don't believe it's proof that Orange Piccolo is comparable in strength to Legendary Super Saiyan Broly. Official statements also say that Orange Piccolo is comparable to Goku and co., and based off the previous movie, that would likely mean he scales to Super Saiyan Blue, or else they would've specified whether Orange Piccolo's comparable to Ultra Instinct Goku or something. Again, not saying that Orange Piccolo isn't stronger than Golden Frieza, but it's still not stomp-worthy as you claim it is.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Given the vast difference between Golden Frieza and SS Broly, and then the difference between the latter and his FPSS transformation, Piccolo should by all means still have the AP advantage. And he WILL go for the kill right from the start. In fact, SS Broly while not even trying to kill Frieza still effortlessly stomped him

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

That's a vote

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Given the vast difference between Frieza and SS Broly, and then the difference between the latter and his FPSS transformation, Piccolo should by all means still have the AP advantage. And he WILL go for the kill right from the start. In fact, SS Broly while not even trying to kill Frieza still stomped him

If you're declaring a vote for Orange Piccolo, that's fine. I never said that Frieza would win anyway, just that it wouldn't be a stomp. And what makes you think that Broly wasn't trying to kill Frieza? He was trying to kill everyone he saw, or at least beat them into submission. Broly literally didn't know how to hold back, he was on a rampage, and the only reason he spared Frieza was because Broly could see he'd lost his stamina and chose to look for another opponent instead of wasting his time killing Frieza.

I guess Frieza could try and even the playing field by using some of his more unique abilities like his psychokinesis and his Death Saucers, though he hasn't used the Death Saucers since Namek, and generally he doesn't use his psychokinesis until later in fights or when he's running out of options. He might use his variety of Death Beam attacks, since he can control them very effectively, though I don't think they'd be much help. So by the time he starts using his special abilities, Piccolo might've already defeated him.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Iirc its said in the novel. Plus its implied by him...well, not killing him

 

[Kin201]

People might assume this is an AP stomp,

I'm one of those people. DBS scaling is controversial as hell.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Not saying its a stomp but piccolo should be easily higher on the ap chain and given that he knows frieza he wont play around.

 

[BlackeJan]

People might assume this is an AP stomp, as Orange Piccolo was capable of holding his own against Cell Max, who was stated to be powerful enough in his complete state that not even Broly would've been able to defeat him. However, he was released prematurely, which I believe impacted both his power level and fighting ability. In addition to that, Orange Piccolo was only able to fight against Cell Max after his weak spot had been targeted by Gotenks and after he'd been critically injured by Gamma 2's self-destruct, with Piccolo later admitting that they would've never been able to defeat Cell Max were he not weakened from the self-destruct. When they fought, Orange Piccolo was dominated by Cell Max in a matter of minutes, so Orange Piccolo was notably inferior.

Golden Frieza was capable of holding his own against Super Saiyan Broly for an entire hour, and despite eventually being defeated, the novel states that his punches could stagger Broly and force him to dodge. Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta working together were barely able to hold their own against Super Saiyan Broly and retreated after less than a minute. So my point is that the difference in power between them shouldn't be too large, even if Orange Piccolo is indeed stronger than Golden Frieza.

I mean what does the novel say about SSB Goku/Vegeta vs Broly?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

And now this is back to Low 2-C vs At least Low 2-C

Reopening a concluded thread and reverting the changes for already disputed reasons was a stupid ******* decision that had NO ground at all

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Honestly, the scaling is a bit weird

We know that Golden Frieza is weaker than SSJ Broly, but not by a mile as he was able to survive beatings from him for an hour and even stagger him with his punches momentarily

Orange Piccolo took attacks from Cell Max, but was overall much weaker and couldn't deal damage to him, only really tank hits and hold him off with his gigantic form. Orange Piccolo however, no selled attacked from Gamma 1, who are stated to be able to contend with the Z Fighters, which likely include SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta, who are both Low 2-C by the time of Broly

So: Orange Piccolo >> Gamma 1 ~ SSB Goku > Broly Saga SSB Goku, meanwhile: SSJ Broly > Golden Frieza >> Broly Saga SSB Goku

Not sure who will win. May be Piccolo but idk

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Honestly, the scaling is a bit weird

We know that Golden Frieza is weaker than SSJ Broly, but not by a mile as he was able to survive beatings from him for an hour and even stagger him with his punches momentarily

Orange Piccolo took attacks from Cell Max, but was overall much weaker and couldn't deal damage to him, only really tank hits and hold him off with his gigantic form. Orange Piccolo however, no selled attacked from Gamma 1, who are stated to be able to contend with the Z Fighters, which likely include SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta, who are both Low 2-C by the time of Broly

So: Orange Piccolo >> Gamma 1 ~ SSB Goku > Broly Saga SSB Goku, meanwhile: SSJ Broly > Golden Frieza >> Broly Saga SSB Goku

Not sure who will win. May be Piccolo but idk

Yea, the scaling is indeed a bit off. Honestly, even though I’m glad this movie didn’t have Goku and Vegeta steal the show, it might’ve been nice to have them around to fight so we could clear up the scaling. Right now we’re leaving a lot of this up to interpretation instead of actual battles.

 

[Jiren's_Dad]

Piccolo slams if the Gammas are stated Goku level and he one shot then yeah it goes to Piccolo

 

[SlendVeny]

Piccolo slams if the Gammas are stated Goku level and he one shot then yeah it goes to Piccolo

Oh, the CASUAL Gamma are at that level.

 

[JaxWolf4]

Piccolo fra

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[Eseseso]

I think AP is close, since Orange Piccolo one-shot the SSJB-level Gamma 2 (and took zero damage from him), while Golden Frieza staggered Broly, who was unaffected by a double SSJB sucker punch to the back of his head.

That said, I think it goes to Orange Piccolo due to him somewhat holding his own against weakened Cell Max.

Also, Frieza has superior stamina (probably), but he's also very arrogant (and considering his history will definitely look down on Piccolo), which Piccolo will definitely exploit.

His healing factor will also help, and the Special Beam cannon would do severe damage.

Voting Piccolo

 

[jojo123]

piccolo FRA

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

It's hilarious that some people still think Golden Frieza has the energy loss weakness at this point. When It was even hinted at the bigening of the TOP by Frieza himself, that he mastered his Golden form through mental training.


Besides, we don't really know if Cell Max is REALLY that stronger than ordinary Super Saiyan Broly.

We only have a confirmation that, if it wasn't becouse Cell Max's growth was interrupted, he could've have stomped Broly right off the batt. Yet, this is not the case here and we are only going by suggestions.

And Golden Frieza briefly hurting SS Broly and resisting his beating for 1 hour really means something else.

For me, both are comparable in terms of power.

And mind you, in the anime, Frieza probably got stronger as the latter trained.


We actually have no way of knowing who would really win

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

True Golden Frieza VS Orange Piccolo is a very even fight.

I would say a draw.


But, knowing Piccolo's intelect and skill, I could see him taking the edge, as both are pretty much the same in terms of power

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

True Golden Frieza VS Orange Piccolo is a very even fight.

I would say a draw.


But, knowing Piccolo's intelect and skill, I could see him taking the edge, as both are pretty much the same in terms of power

So is that a vote for Piccolo or inconclusive?

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[SuperStar]

Going with Orange

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

I'm also going to vote for Orange Piccolo due to him having an AP advantage and knowing most of Frieza's techniques and tactics, so he won't underestimate him and likely try to finish the battle as quickly as possible.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Both are pretty much in the same ballpark

 

[Mickey1940]

Orange Piccolo doesn't have the AP advantage

Piccolo is stated to be on par with Goku or Vegeta in their Blue states, who Frieza stomps

Cell Max was weakened to the point that someone on Blue Goku and Vegeta's level was able to stagger and injure him repeatedly.

Since Frieza is far stronger than Blue Goku and Vegeta, plus his vastly superior resilience and RE, he should have no problem pretty much toying with Piccolo until he dies

Voting Frieza

 

[Eseseso]

Orange Piccolo doesn't have the AP advantage

Piccolo is stated to be on par with Goku or Vegeta in their Blue states, who Frieza stomps

Cell Max was weakened to the point that someone on Blue Goku and Vegeta's level was able to stagger and injure him repeatedly.

Since Frieza is far stronger than Blue Goku and Vegeta, plus his vastly superior resilience and RE, he should have no problem pretty much toying with Piccolo until he dies

Voting Frieza

SH SSJB Goku is way stronger than the SSJB Goku that Frieza scales above.

That's not a fair argument.

 

[Mickey1940]

SH SSJB Goku is way stronger than the SSJB Goku that Frieza scales above.

That's not a fair argument.

Super Hero Goku is unquantifiably above his DBSB self

Goku and Vegeta combined were pretty much treated as fodder compared to SSJ Broly, who effortlessly tore through their Galick Kamehameha and forced them to instantly retreat

Frieza was strong enough to force Broly to dodge, and he could survive a MFTL+ battle against him for a straight hour. Even after the pummeling, he had enough stamina to still move, stay in Golden Form, and attempt to shoot down Cheelai's ship and fly away mostly unscathed.

Meaning Frieza is a little under 100 times stronger than DBSB Goku and vastly superior stamina wise

Unless you can prove that Orange Piccolo is 100 times stronger than DBSB Goku and in any way shape or form comparable to SSJ Broly, then Frieza wins

 

[Eseseso]

Super Hero Goku is unquantifiably above his DBSB self

Goku and Vegeta combined were pretty much treated as fodder compared to SSJ Broly, who effortlessly tore through their Galick Kamehameha and forced them to instantly retreat

Frieza was strong enough to force Broly to dodge, and he could survive a MFTL+ battle against him for a straight hour. Even after the pummeling, he had enough stamina to still move, stay in Golden Form, and attempt to shoot down Cheelai's ship and fly away mostly unscathed.

Meaning Frieza is a little under 100 times stronger than DBSB Goku and vastly superior stamina wise

Unless you can prove that Orange Piccolo is 100 times stronger than DBSB Goku and in any way shape or form comparable to SSJ Broly, then Frieza wins

Even if he has the AP advantage, Piccolo has healing, unique powers, is a better thinker and strategist, isn't arrogant like Frieza, and has the Special Beam Cannon, which scales way above his regular AP. For context, in the ToP, his Special Beam cannon effortlessly pierced someone who freaking powered through Ultimate Gohan's Kamehameha.

Also, Piccolo in Orange one-shot Gamma 2, who was >= ToP SSJB Goku, and was completely unaffected by his hits, so the AP gap isn't large.

 

[Mickey1940]

Even if he has the AP advantage, Piccolo has healing, unique powers, is a better thinker and strategist, isn't arrogant like Frieza, and has the Special Beam Cannon, which scales way above his regular AP. For context, in the ToP, his Special Beam cannon effortlessly pierced someone who freaking powered through Ultimate Gohan's Kamehameha.

Also, Piccolo in Orange one-shot Gamma 2, who was >= ToP SSJB Goku, and was completely unaffected by his hits, so the AP gap isn't large.

Piccolo's healing has never helped him in any of his fights. It's only applicable when he loses a limb, and even then it drains him of his stamina

SBC isn't spammable, and Frieza can just take the hit since he can survive having literally half his body + an arm sliced off, then blown up, then floating in space for god knows how long. He also survived being literally chunks of meat for an unquantifiably long time until he was properly resuscitated in RoF. It's also not enough proof that SBC is x100 Piccolo's AP, considering how Gamma 2 blocked it effortlessley

I already addressed this, but I'll say it again: 1 shotting someone in DBZ requires a x1.25 AP Advantage, as we've sen in Vegeta vs Cui. THat's still not enough justification that Orange Piccolo can close the x100 gap between the 2 of them

 

[Eseseso]

This doesn't even matter. It's already grace

 

[Mickey1940]

This doesn't even matter. It's already grace

If my argument literally invalidates all of the other votes (which it does), then it definitely should be revoked

Like bro, I gave u my points, and your only argument against these points is "oh it's grace so nothing you say matters". That doesn't make any sense

 

[Spinoirr]

Piccolo gets his revenge for freiza almost killing him fra

 

[Mickey1940]

?????

why are you saying fra when I disproved it and no one argued back