Darth Vader vs Lucario

[The_Wright_Way]

Disney Vader vs. Mega Lucario

Speed equalized.


vs.

triggered

 

[BattleReviews]

Darth Vader Because force

 

[Omegagoldfish]

Really, Lucario's kinda screwed here. Vader hits harder, can take more hits, and his lightsaber's pretty much an ansti kill. Vader has more feats in regards to telekinesis and mind reading, and holds the edge in both power and precision. Up close, Vader's armor and mastery of the lightsaber grants him an easy edge, and his lightsaber can likely deflect or destroy most projective attacks.


Vader gets a force choke off (as he loves to do), lightsaber throw, turns, and leaves, or gets close, tanks several hits, and a quick decapitation strike ends it all.

 

[BattleReviews]

exactly, darth vader is compreable to the mythical pokemons

 

[Computerz5]

Darth Vader for sure

 

[Eficiente]

Vader ftra.

 

[BattleReviews]

yeah, lucario maybe is compareable to luke skywalker, but darth vader stomps for sure, via the force, keeping lucario distance, or the lightsaber, that could slice the bones like butter

 

[Hellbeast1]

Vader's got this FRA those being AP and his versatility

 

[Omegagoldfish]

I realized now that the lightsaber would likely be considered a fire move, and be even more effective.

And Lucario has no real resistance to the Force. It's likely a Psychic attack (in Pokemon), in which case it hits neutrally. The Dark Side is a way of using the Force, not a different force altogether.

 

[ZeedMillenniummon89]

Vader for reasons above

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

My vote goes to Lucario. A combo of Quick Guard, Detect and Endure would render Force Choke moot. Feint and there goes force barriers. Laser Focus and there goes force amplification. Lucario one shots Disney Vader. Through versatility and hax, Lucario wins this.

Edit: Lucario's bones are made with energy. Not the same case as Marowak who uses a literal bone. He can block the Lightsaber.

Edit 2: Lucario also has Me First. Vader would taste an even more powerful version of his choke.

 

[Schnee_One]

Vader mind screws and/or force chokes

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Gargoyle

This is disney vader. No crazy mindhax, and he wouldn't lead with it anyway. Plus, again, Me First and GG Force Choke.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

And for those saying Vader is stronger, is actually the other way around. Lucario has an "at least" Large Mountain feat to scale off. (which I imagine is the Thunder Calc from Cal)

 

[Omegagoldfish]

My vote goes to Lucario. A combo of Quick Guard, Detect and Endure would render Force Choke moot. Feint and there goes force barriers. Laser Focus and there goes force amplification. Lucario one shots Disney Vader. Through versatility and hax, Lucario wins this.
Edit: Lucario's bones are made with energy. Not the same case as Marowak who uses a literal bone. He can block the Lightsaber.

Edit 2: Lucario also has Me First. Vader would taste an even more powerful version of his choke.

While you make a valid point, Vader has more impressive feats of telekineses, durability, and blade wielding. There's very little stopping Vader from going through with the choke. He's survived, albiet briefly, lightning from Darth Sidious, who had amped up his output to kill Vader. He's survived exposure to hard vacuum, and his body is literally forced to keep functioning by machines.


Force choke likely won't work against Vader, due to his cybernetic nature (his lungs are literally forced to keep functioning by his suit). Vader's precog is a bit better as well, and very little is stopping Vader from getting his own choke off. Protect might work, but detect won't, due to how it works. Detect is precog for an attack, but it's technically impossible to dodge a force grip. Overpower it? Yes. Endure it? Sure. But dodge it? Never done in Star Wars canon.

Quick Guard also isn't going to help here, as Vader's moving about as quickly as Lucario here, not dramatically faster. Furthermore, in terms of swordfighting, Vader has more consistent and dangerous feats than Lucario does

with bones. Me First is iffy. While it's Vader's attack at a higher power, Vader has survived hard vacuum before, and logically can go without air for a while because of that feat, as well as his body needing less oxygen to function.

Vader would then retaliate with his own choke, and then lightsaber throw, or just lightsaber throw right off the bat.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I would argue Lucario's precog is better than Disney canon's. Both are incredibly similar, but Lucario has this:

Pearl's pokédex entry: By catching the Aura emanating from others, it can read their thoughts and movements.

So Lucario has constant precog, from stuff at half a mile, as stated by platinum's pokédex entry.

And Lucario also is very good at handling low oxygen, and have great stamina (though in this Vader is better at):

Riolu's pearl pokédex statment: Its body is little yet powerful. It can crest three mountains and cross two canyons in one night.

Plus, if the choke still comes true, would it count as a flinch against Lucario? Because that would boost it's speed. (and while he cannot be flinched, this is a type of attack he never has dealt with, so it would probably get staggered). While in this boat, speed equal renders speed boosts moot, right? (just saying scenarios)

About combat feats, I would say is pretty debatable who's the better of the two.

And detect causes the user to dodge stuff that is normally impossible to dodge in pokémon canon, as well as Quick Guard.

I stated Lucario would one shot Vader, and still maintain it. Though I didn't know about Vader surviving in the vacuum of space. That would make things more dificult for Lucario, but I still feel he has the better chance. Sense the Force Choke incoming through Aura, and send a good Aura Sphere to break the concentration and force (no shame xP) to block.

 

[Schnee_One]

@Gargoyle

This is disney vader. No crazy mindhax, and he wouldn't lead with it anyway. Plus, again, Me First and GG Force Choke.

Buddy....

You don't need crazy mind hax to mind screw someone

 

[Noahkaismith]

I lot of people are ignoring the fact that Lucario has Psychic as well. When it comes to melee it's debatable as to who is surperior, but I'd say Vader edges out in that category. I think Lucario could use detect to dodge a force choke, as it can dodge stuff similar to that like Psychic, Earthquake, and Heat Wave. I think Lucario can win this.

 

[BattleReviews]

darth vader got the force, thats even more powerfull,

 

[Noahkaismith]

darth vader got the force, thats even more powerfull,

Well, shit, can't argue with that. I change my vote to Vader.

 

[BattleReviews]

even the other attacks would do nothing, i dont know if the disney canon included the force jump, because that would automaticly dodge earthquake,

 

[Omegagoldfish]

I would argue Lucario's precog is better than Disney canon's. Both are incredibly similar, but Lucario has this:
Pearl's pokédex entry: By catching the Aura emanating from others, it can read their thoughts and movements.

So Lucario has constant precog, from stuff at half a mile, as stated by platinum's pokédex entry.

And Lucario also is very good at handling low oxygen, and have great stamina (though in this Vader is better at):

Riolu's pearl pokédex statment: Its body is little yet powerful. It can crest three mountains and cross two canyons in one night.

Plus, if the choke still comes true, would it count as a flinch against Lucario? Because that would boost it's speed. (and while he cannot be flinched, this is a type of attack he never has dealt with, so it would probably get staggered). While in this boat, speed equal renders speed boosts moot, right? (just saying scenarios)

About combat feats, I would say is pretty debatable who's the better of the two.

And detect causes the user to dodge stuff that is normally impossible to dodge in pokémon canon, as well as Quick Guard.

I stated Lucario would one shot Vader, and still maintain it. Though I didn't know about Vader surviving in the vacuum of space. That would make things more dificult for Lucario, but I still feel he has the better chance. Sense the Force Choke incoming through Aura, and send a good Aura Sphere to break the concentration and force (no shame xP) to block.

Vader's survived having limbs hacked off, being buried under buildings, taken blaster shots to the head and kept going, and one of the first things he did as a Sith was survive being bathed entirely in lava after being carved to pieces. It is impossible to beat him down, he will just get back up until he dies.


He only lost to Luke for two reasons: 1: Luke was far more powerful in the force and, at the time, was unconsciously using the Dark Side to boost his already formidable strength. 2: Vader still had empathy and likely wasn't trying to outright kill Luke.

Force Choke isn't a flinch, it's pinning the enemy down. And for dodging moves like Earthquake, I always imagined a jump of some sort, and Heat Wave could only affect a certain radius. Trainers standing nearby aren't charred, meaning there is a limit of area. Psychic is the fiddly one, and likely the most important.


Psychic operates quite like a Force choke, in that they are both telekinetic strikes at the enemy outright, but Detect often fails when used in succesion. If Lucario manages to shrug off one choke, Vader will try and throw another down.

As for precog and telepathy, Vader's pried actual information out of the minds of those not only unwilling, but roughly as powerful as him, and was able to endure Luke Skywalker's onslaught for a long period of time, despite his inferior speed.

In Empire Strikes Back, Vader managed to not only locate Luke's mind, but communicate telepathically despite being seperated by light years, a massive feat. He's choked people through vidscreens across space and could sense Luke's power in the Force while in a fighter jet dozens of meters away.


Compared to Lucario's feats of sending messages, or understanding intent, rather than specific strikes, this is a clear advantage. Lucario is formidable, but Vader's outright power and his superior feats grant him a win.

He'll be hurt, Aura Spheres will hurt a lot, but they can be stopped by a lightsaber blade. They're stopped by walls as it is.


Please don't take my argument for favoritism, I like both characters as is.

 

[Noahkaismith]

even the other attacks would do nothing, i dont know if the disney canon included the force jump, because that would automaticly dodge earthquake,

Did you even understand my arguement?

 

[Eficiente]

In terms of melee combat, I would give Vader the edge for easily defeating Sidious in a Force vision.

 

[Omegagoldfish]

In terms of melee combat, I would give Vader the edge for easily defeating Sidious in a Force vision.

Source? Sidious is an absolute master of lightsaber combat and could easily outfence Vader. Not to mention force lightning.

 

[Eficiente]

@Omegagoldfish The most recent Darth Vader comics. Volume 5. Following how Vader got his lightsaber with the "crystals have life and only turn red if they are sad" thing. This happens;

 

[Omegagoldfish]

@Omegagoldfish The most recent Darth Vader comics. Volume 5. Following how Vader got his lightsaber with the "crystals have life and only turn red if they are sad" thing. This happens;

Wut. Why didn't he kill Sidious right then and there? PIS for Vader or Sidious here?

 

[Eficiente]

As I said it was in a Force vision, the fight was a what if scenario in Vader's favor, but it counts to talk of his combat skills.

 

[BattleReviews]

even the other attacks would do nothing, i dont know if the disney canon included the force jump, because that would automaticly dodge earthquake,

Did you even understand my arguement?

yes, of course i do,

 

[Omegagoldfish]

As I said it was in a Force vision, the fight was a what if scenario in Vader's favor, but it counts to talk of his combat skills.

Is this vision a viable feat or an extremely unlikely outcome? I mean, it's physically possible, but ludicrously unlikely. It'd be like me beating the crap out of Bruce Lee at his peak, ie: nearly impossible.

 

[Myriadofmemes]

My vote goes to Lucario for better versatility, vastly superior agility, martial arts and better melee range.

Vader simply doesn't have the raw power to deal with Lucario quickly and when combined with the fact that anything that Vader tries is bound to hit him first puts him at a large disadvantage early on. Lucario has sufficient defensive capacity to protect himself from anything that Vader can throw at him, which is further increased by abilities like calm mind.

If it ever comes down to straight up melee combat Vader won't be able to keep up with the doggo's vast martial arts skills and the definitive gap in Agility between them.

 

[Eficiente]

I disagree with your arguments. Vader has better quality in martial arts and mind powers, with equal speed and Vader's fighting style specifically modified for his disincreased mobility he shouldn't have many problems.

 

[Myriadofmemes]

For Vader, accomplishing martial arts moves like High Jump Kick and Sky Uppercut is strictly impossible due to the state he's in, saying that he has better martial arts is objectively wrong, let alone when we're talking about anything on the level of Close Combat.

Furthermore his mind powers aren't nearly impressive enough to protect him from Me First and the various ranged and defensive abilities Lucario has.

 

[Eficiente]

For Vader, accomplishing martial arts moves like High Jump Kick and Sky Uppercut is strictly impossible due to the state he's in, saying that he has better martial arts is objectively wrong, let alone when we're talking about anything on the level of Close Combat.

This. Vader's style is adapted to his condition, but not inferior to any other. There are several forms of fighting in SW, none objectively superior to another. Under what logic not being able to use other martial arts moves makes you inferior in martial arts?

Furthermore his mind powers aren't nearly impressive enough to protect him from Me First

What stops Vader from reading his mind?

and the various ranged

How much distance are you expecting Lucario to take? 1 continent? 2?

and defensive abilities Lucario has.

What defense does Lucario have against Vader's haxes?

 

[BattleReviews]

My vote goes to Lucario for better versatility, vastly superior agility, martial arts and better melee range.
Vader simply doesn't have the raw power to deal with Lucario quickly and when combined with the fact that anything that Vader tries is bound to hit him first puts him at a large disadvantage early on. Lucario has sufficient defensive capacity to protect himself from anything that Vader can throw at him, which is further increased by abilities like calm mind.

If it ever comes down to straight up melee combat Vader won't be able to keep up with the doggo's vast martial arts skills and the definitive gap in Agility between them.

so? the force keeps lucario distance,

 

[Myriadofmemes]

This. Vader's style is adapted to his condition, but not inferior to any other. There are several forms of fighting in SW, none objectively superior to another. Under what logic not being able to use other martial arts moves makes you inferior in martial arts?
I'm not sure how SW martial arts fair against each other or if there's any real martial arts to it all, that means having actual practised moves to perform - as far as I'm aware SW swordmanship is about the way you act, agressively, defensively etc.

That wasn't what I meant anyways. My point was that due to his health, Anakin isn't nearly as agile as he could be and certainly quite lesser than the dog, because of that he can't perform martial arts as well as he possibly could, or as well as Lucario for that matter.

Regardless of how he has strategized around his poor health his strats can only do so much, they can't fully make up for melted muscles.

What stops Vader from reading his mind?
Lucario is also reading Vader's mind, what's your point?

How much distance are you expecting Lucario to take? 1 continent? 2?
Again, what's your point? I was trying to put on display the plethora of ranged skills that Lucario has in his disposal.

What defense does Lucario have against Vader's haxes?
Vader has no usable hax against Lucario in his canon form. Mind trick only works on the weak willed, nothing that would work against a chi master like Lucario, let alone someone who can further boost their mental state via calm mind.

 

[BattleReviews]

This. Vader's style is adapted to his condition, but not inferior to any other. There are several forms of fighting in SW, none objectively superior to another. Under what logic not being able to use other martial arts moves makes you inferior in martial arts?

I'm not sure how SW martial arts fair against each other or if there's any real martial arts to it all, that means having actual practised moves to perform - as far as I'm aware SW swordmanship is about the way you act, agressively, defensively etc.

That wasn't what I meant anyways. My point was that due to his health, Anakin isn't nearly as agile as he could be and certainly quite lesser than the dog, because of that he can't perform martial arts as well as he possibly could, or as well as Lucario for that matter.

Regardless of how he has strategized around his poor health his strats can only do so much, they can't fully make up for melted muscles.


What stops Vader from reading his mind?
Lucario is also reading Vader's mind, what's your point?


How much distance are you expecting Lucario to take? 1 continent? 2?
Again, what's your point? I was trying to put on display the plethora of ranged skills that Lucario has in his disposal.
What defense does Lucario have against Vader's
Vader has no usable hax against Lucario in his canon form. Mind trick only works on the weak willed, nothing that would work against a chi master like Lucario, let alone someone who can further boost their mental state via calm mind.


vader got usable hax, called the force, keeping lucario distance

 

[Omegagoldfish]

This. Vader's style is adapted to his condition, but not inferior to any other. There are several forms of fighting in SW, none objectively superior to another. Under what logic not being able to use other martial arts moves makes you inferior in martial arts?

I'm not sure how SW martial arts fair against each other or if there's any real martial arts to it all, that means having actual practised moves to perform - as far as I'm aware SW swordmanship is about the way you act, agressively, defensively etc.

That wasn't what I meant anyways. My point was that due to his health, Anakin isn't nearly as agile as he could be and certainly quite lesser than the dog, because of that he can't perform martial arts as well as he possibly could, or as well as Lucario for that matter.

Regardless of how he has strategized around his poor health his strats can only do so much, they can't fully make up for melted muscles.


What stops Vader from reading his mind?
Lucario is also reading Vader's mind, what's your point?


How much distance are you expecting Lucario to take? 1 continent? 2?
Again, what's your point? I was trying to put on display the plethora of ranged skills that Lucario has in his disposal.
What defense does Lucario have against Vader's haxes?
Vader has no usable hax against Lucario in his canon form. Mind trick only works on the weak willed, nothing that would work against a chi master like Lucario, let alone someone who can further boost their mental state via calm mind.
There are seven main styles of lightsaber fighting in Star Wars, each different and difficult to master. Vader himself is a master of forms 2, 5, and 6, with extensive knowledge in all the others. Mind tricks like Obi-Wan used are only for the weak willed, but Vader's torn palpable information out of individuals of similar power. Furthermore, Vader's actually surprsingly fast. Check his stats, he's actually faster than Lucario, hence the equal speed. Vader's hax do in fact work, his telekineses is astonishing and his precog is effective. His stat amping is powerful and he does have methods for dealing with attacks at range.


Your argument seems like you lack knowledge in Star Wars canon.

 

[Myriadofmemes]

There are seven main styles of lightsaber fighting in Star Wars, each different and difficult to master. Vader himself is a master of forms 2, 5, and 6
Again those are just ways that force sensitives handle themselves in combat, agressively, defensively, relying mostly on the force etc. There don't seem to be any moves that Jedi learn with these "stances". Furthermore, I'm not even sure if this stuff is part of canon and not legends.

Mind tricks like Obi-Wan used are only for the weak willed, but Vader's torn palpable information out of individuals of similar power.
By mind hax I was talking about making Lucario mad or making him see things like visions or things that actually make it harder for Lucario to fight, I've already clearly stated that Vader can read the doggie's mind and vise versa so they will both be getting info on each throughout the fight.

Vader's actually surprsingly fast. Check his stats, he's actually faster than Lucario
He isn't. Lucario is Massively Hypersonic+ while Vader is only Massively Hypersonic and that's only with reactions. His lightspeed stuff are strictly from Legends. Also, it really doesn't matter who is faster it would be equal speed either way, not sure why you had to throw that in.

And to begin with, I was talking about agility not speed as it is speed equal. I hardly doubt that Vader can even bend down and touch toes with all those torn muscles and charred skin. That's what I meant.

his telekineses is astonishing and his precog is effective. His stat amping is powerful and he does have methods
Lucario has all of that as well and by the way, those aren't what we consider hax.


Your final sentence was quite a bit snarky so I'll leave a snarky response myself.

It doesn't appear that you know how to read profile pages, sorry.

 

[Omegagoldfish]

First and foremost, the speed calcs that differentiate Disney from EU Vader are iffy, especially considering that, unless something conflicts with canon material, it is normally considerd canon by the Star Wars fanbase as it is. Secondly, Vader does have some interesting abilities, such as Force Scream. Finally, Lucario's not influencing Vader either, due to his training, so that ability is moot. And as an addenum, Vader's dealt with and killed more agile opponents than before. Another one wouldn't be an issue.