Darksiders updates

[DaReaperMan]

This revision is to add keys to Death and War, as well as some changes to Absalom.

The main reason for the new keys​

The Abomination Vault novel has several feats in the 9-B range, this includes: War Kool-aid manning a wall in The White City (pg 111), Death thinking a long fall would possibly kill him in Crowfather's domain(pg: 78), Black Mercy slowly breaking a warded crystal with its shots(pg: 331), All of Crowfather's feats, including casually physically shattering a construct and magic shattering constructs(pages 76 to 85 and 95 to 100), literally any time anyone fights a maker construct(Fragmenting brass and stone), Death uppercutting War hard enough to make cracks in the ground(pg: 226), War driving Chaoseater into stone(various), Death driving Harvester into the ground and stone(various), "disintegrating" demons(pg 205, there were flaps of flesh left), a demon yeeting a massive chunk of stone wall at Death(pg 207), War collapsing a stone balcony by repeatedly ramming Chaoseater tip-first into it (pg 209), Death Cracking stone and ice in Crowfather's throne room by yeeting a construct into it(pg 109)

And the only feat higher then 9-B from memory is from Earth Reaver, who apsolutely nobody scales to as it is both environmental destruction and makes an active Volcano with its ability.

Would Death or War have any changes in their abilities for this key? Probably not. They show most of their hax in the book and we can just scale into it.

Why is this a new key and not a downgrade?​

Because War's 7-B feat is unknown millennia later, and most of these feats were casual anyway so you could say the 7-B feat isn't an outlier

AOE fallacy​

You can claim this, but that's why it's another key, the novel takes place at least 500 years after the horseman slaughter the Nephilim, as Death's immortals vacation took that amount of time, and before any of the games happen... also when Fury still looked like a banshee.

Absalom fixes​

Lifting Strength goes Class K, Likely Higher for the reasons on the profile itself

Absalom gets several meters with Corruption attacks(the literal platform the fight takes place on) and extended Melee Range with his axe, also for obvious reasons

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This seems fine.

 

[DaReaperMan]

There is one mistake here I just realized, Darksiders: Genesis would also be effected by these changes, as it takes place pretty much directly after the Nephilim's attack on Eden, which means an unknown amount of time before Death starts his immortals vacation.

so Strife and Samael would also be effected by the new keys.

I don't recall any big feats outside of 9-B in Genesis outside of a storm Creation feat that probably doesn't scale to anyone, an environmental destruction feat, and hyperboles as all were already discussed in previous threads

And one update that should be made is the Age of the horseman, as they all existed millenia before Humanity which is 200,000 years old, while we could high-ball to 6 million years that is our ancestors, both are plausible honestly

 

[Hellbeast]

While I’m here I agree with keys but I disagree with Abom vault being 9-B; most of this seems like PIS considering we’ve seen weaker versions of the Horsemen perform feats blatantly above this

Oh and about that:

The Horsemen are stated to be weaker in the games but I don’t mean because of the seals; it’s because they aren’t serving the Council

War is mentioned as having this and the Lord of Bones outright says that because Death isn’t here for the Council’s purpose he is denied his full power (even implying he would be relative to him if so)

So Genesis and over stories likely upscale from the feats we see the Horsemen do in their titles with the possible exception of Fury (whom actually is on official business)

The 7-B also has issues because it’s seemingly collapsing because of Straga’s connection to it rather then War’s power (Azrael outright mentions the tower and Straga are one)

 

[Hellbeast]

so Strife and Samael would also be effected by the new keys.

Strife I don’t know since he doesn’t really have any feats beyond this and tie ins (until 4 hopefully comes out)

Samael should probably just upscale since he’s pretty casual against Death and is relative to an amped Moloch (Who needed two horsemen to best him)

I don't recall any big feats outside of 9-B in Genesis outside of a storm Creation feat that probably doesn't scale to anyone, an environmental destruction feat, and hyperboles as all were already discussed in previous threads

Dagon is pretty damn large so he could be something via GPE and in the events of Darksiders II: At Death’s Door have Death slay a Leviathan (which we see sizes for in 2 and Genesis)

And one update that should be made is the Age of the horseman, as they all existed millenia before Humanity which is 200,000 years old, while we could high-ball to 6 million years that is our ancestors, both are plausible honestly

I’m fine with Thousands of Years for that and the mention of Horsemen being eons old

 

[DaReaperMan]

The Horsemen are stated to be weaker in the games but I don’t mean because of the seals; it’s because they aren’t serving the Council

War is mentioned as having this and the Lord of Bones outright says that because Death isn’t here for the Council’s purpose he is denied his full power (even implying he would be relative to him if so)

The 7-B also has issues

Yes, I know. and during TAB there are consistent 9-B feats, there are 200K/6Mil years separating Genesis and DS1. Abomination Vault happens 500 years or so after Genesis.

And why exactly should War cross scale with himself 200K/6Mil years in the future?

Apsolutely, but I'm frankly not ready to tackle that

 

[DaReaperMan]

Strife I don’t know since he doesn’t really have any feats beyond this and tie ins (until 4 hopefully comes out)

Samael should probably just upscale since he’s pretty casual against Death and is relative to an amped Moloch (Who needed two horsemen to best him)

Dagon is pretty damn large so he could be something via GPE and in the events of Darksiders II: At Death’s Door have Death slay a Leviathan (which we see sizes for in 2 and Genesis)

I’m fine with Thousands of Years for that and the mention of Horsemen being eons old

He still gets two keys, because hello hello, he needs to be consistent with his brothers and sister

That fight happened while neither were tier 9.

Pretty sure there was an 8-B KE for Leviathans, Dagon is probably 8-C or 8-B from memory then

They already have that. I'm looking to put "Over 200,000 years old" on all relevant profiles.

 

[Hellbeast]

Yes, I know. and during TAB there are consistent 9-B feats, there are 200K/6Mil years separating Genesis and DS1. Abomination Vault happens 500 years or so after Genesis.

And why exactly should War cross scale with himself 200K/6Mil years in the future?

Because there’s no reason to assume he got stronger at all and the very nature of his powers granted by the Council implies stuff like Genesis and TAV would have him be stronger, not the other way around

I’m also fairly certain most of the 9-B stuff is casual but I need to reread it for my own revisions

Apsolutely, but I'm frankly not ready to tackle that

I get that boo; I’ll probably have a thread for that if that’s cool?

He still gets two keys, because hello hello, he needs to be consistent with his brothers and sister

He does but he doesn’t really have any feats outside of those sources which we both agree would upscale to the stuff done in the games so it’s kinda pointless until he gets a game or something

That fight happened while neither were tier 9.

I know, that’s why I’m saying Samael should just have one since he’s in general one of the most powerful beings in the setting

Pretty sure there was an 8-B KE for Leviathans, Dagon is probably 8-C or 8-B from memory then

The 8-B seems pretty solid (I don’t know if Death ever gets a canon height tho)

They already have that. I'm looking to put "Over 200,000 years old" on all relevant profiles.

Oh that I disagree with then; there’s no reason to assume that humanity emerged at the same time as Homo Sapiens irl considering the very fantastical nature of the setting

 

[DaReaperMan]

Oh that I disagree with then; there’s no reason to assume that humanity emerged at the same time as Homo Sapiens irl considering the very fantastical nature of the setting

Homo Sapiens irl are NOT what I'm scaling to, I'm scaling to actual humans. If I was scaling to Homo Sapiens it would've been 2.4 million.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Homo Sapiens are what modern humans are. Though that's what scientists and typically evolutionists call them. Darksiders likely follows Young Earth Creationism history.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Homo Sapiens are what modern humans are. Though that's what scientists and typically evolutionists call them. Darksiders likely follows Young Earth Creationism history.

Uhhh, a quick Google search on Homo Sapiens age gives me 2.4Mil/1.4Mil. Humans as we know them started 200,000 years ago

 

[Antvasima]

I trust Medeus' sense of judgement regarding this franchise.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway:

Human - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I'm watching this as I like Darksiders, and can possibly provide useful input.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Watching as well

 

[DaReaperMan]

Anyway:

Human - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Huh. Google may be wrong.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Also, for my own two cents, there is a statement in Abomination Vault that the abilities, weapons and Magics of the Horsemen have dramatically evolved from killing the Nephilim to Apocalypse. It doesn’t note their actual physical strength however.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also, for my own two cents, there is a statement in Abomination Vault that the abilities, weapons and Magics of the Horsemen have dramatically evolved from killing the Nephilim to Apocalypse. It doesn’t note their actual physical strength however.

Considering Death was pulling magical stunts we only wish we could do in the games that rings true

 

[DaReaperMan]

Looking into it the 8-B feats seem... nonexistant. Things to calc are The Guardian KE and busting the corruption pustule thing

War jousting a statue through a wall in The White City(yes its the same feat as kool-aid manning it)

"A fearsome cracking, not unlike the shattering of some great peak, echoed down the street" (the statue rip, dimensions for statue below)

"He held both(hands) high above his head, and with them he supported an inconceivable weight. The effigy of the lunging angel, larger then horse and rider combined, carved of solid stone" -- "yet it seemed to scarcely even slow the fearsome pair who carried it now." (War and Ruin holding the statue of an angel, which an angel would look something like this, War's height here(About 6'2), and Ruin's height/dimensions and such to be scaled compared to War)

"With a deep grunt he snapped his body forward, hurling the sculpture with all his unnatural strength. The massive projectile soared ahead of them to slam with devastating force, not against the door, but against the stone wall some few paces to the right of the entryway. the statue shattered into heavy chunks that bounced and skittered along the roadway. The wall itself was shot through with a cobweb of deep fractures and fissures, but it had proved thick enough to stand against the bombardment."

"At the apex of Ruin's flight, the split-tongued tip of Chaoeater seemed, almost gently, to kiss the already compromised wall. Stone exploded inward in a billowing cloud of dust and jaggen shrapnel."

Maker Constructs for comparison, Several times did Death one-shot a maker construct by fragmenting it, there may be some V. Frags in there but I don't remember them. and multiple times were some constructs stated to be made of brass, so theres your low, mid, mid-high, and high-ends

death killed and decapitated a Leviathan, a better shot of the size is around 6:40 or so.

Dagon could probably use a Large Size KE calc if possible

 

[DaReaperMan]

Looking into it the 8-B feats seem... nonexistant. Things to calc are The Guardian KE and busting the corruption pustule thing

War jousting a statue through a wall in The White City(yes its the same feat as kool-aid manning it)

"A fearsome cracking, not unlike the shattering of some great peak, echoed down the street" (the statue rip, dimensions for statue below)

"He held both(hands) high above his head, and with them he supported an inconceivable weight. The effigy of the lunging angel, larger then horse and rider combined, carved of solid stone" -- "yet it seemed to scarcely even slow the fearsome pair who carried it now." (War and Ruin holding the statue of an angel, which an angel would look something like this, War's height here(About 6'2), and Ruin's height/dimensions and such to be scaled compared to War)

"With a deep grunt he snapped his body forward, hurling the sculpture with all his unnatural strength. The massive projectile soared ahead of them to slam with devastating force, not against the door, but against the stone wall some few paces to the right of the entryway. the statue shattered into heavy chunks that bounced and skittered along the roadway. The wall itself was shot through with a cobweb of deep fractures and fissures, but it had proved thick enough to stand against the bombardment."

"At the apex of Ruin's flight, the split-tongued tip of Chaoeater seemed, almost gently, to kiss the already compromised wall. Stone exploded inward in a billowing cloud of dust and jaggen shrapnel."

Maker Constructs for comparison, Several times did Death one-shot a maker construct by fragmenting it, there may be some V. Frags in there but I don't remember them. and multiple times were some constructs stated to be made of brass, so theres your low, mid, mid-high, and high-ends

death killed and decapitated a Leviathan, a better shot of the size is around 6:40 or so.

Dagon could probably use a Large Size KE calc if possible

.

.

.

Can you get some calc group members to calc the feats above?

 

[DaReaperMan]

sigh

War's scalable height here which is around 6'2 comparing to a van. Angels at around 2:20.

 

[Hellbeast]

Looking into it the 8-B feats seem... nonexistant. Things to calc are The Guardian KE and busting the corruption pustule thing

Hammer could be good KE but we’d use GPE for the Guardian (likely Tier 8)

War jousting a statue through a wall in The White City(yes its the same feat as kool-aid manning it)

Depending on size it could be solid lifting

I know he makes massive holes in his fight with Abaddon

Maker Constructs for comparison, Several times did Death one-shot a maker construct by fragmenting it, there may be some V. Frags in there but I don't remember them. and multiple times were some constructs stated to be made of brass, so theres your low, mid, mid-high, and high-ends

death killed and decapitated a Leviathan, a better shot of the size is around 6:40 or so.

I also believe Leviathans pull the Eternal Throne so we could use that too

Dagon could probably use a Large Size KE calc if possible

Yeah that seems good

 

[DaReaperMan]

Hammer could be good KE but we’d use GPE for the Guardian (likely Tier 8)

Depending on size it could be solid lifting

I know he makes massive holes in his fight with Abaddon

Yep

It's bigger then War and Ruin combined is what we're given

Probably 9-B or 9-A I don't remember the feats tho

 

[Antvasima]

What are the conclusions here so far?

 

[DaReaperMan]

What are the conclusions here so far?

I don't think there are any, I'm looking to put a number on the 9-B and get other calcs in place for Dagon and a Leviathan.

sigh

War's scalable height here which is around 6'2 comparing to a van. Angels at around 2:20.

Looking into it the 8-B feats seem... nonexistant. Things to calc are The Guardian KE and busting the corruption pustule thing

War jousting a statue through a wall in The White City(yes its the same feat as kool-aid manning it)

"A fearsome cracking, not unlike the shattering of some great peak, echoed down the street" (the statue rip, dimensions for statue below)

"He held both(hands) high above his head, and with them he supported an inconceivable weight. The effigy of the lunging angel, larger then horse and rider combined, carved of solid stone" -- "yet it seemed to scarcely even slow the fearsome pair who carried it now." (War and Ruin holding the statue of an angel, which an angel would look something like this, War's height here(About 6'2), and Ruin's height/dimensions and such to be scaled compared to War)

"With a deep grunt he snapped his body forward, hurling the sculpture with all his unnatural strength. The massive projectile soared ahead of them to slam with devastating force, not against the door, but against the stone wall some few paces to the right of the entryway. the statue shattered into heavy chunks that bounced and skittered along the roadway. The wall itself was shot through with a cobweb of deep fractures and fissures, but it had proved thick enough to stand against the bombardment."

"At the apex of Ruin's flight, the split-tongued tip of Chaoeater seemed, almost gently, to kiss the already compromised wall. Stone exploded inward in a billowing cloud of dust and jaggen shrapnel."

Maker Constructs for comparison, Several times did Death one-shot a maker construct by fragmenting it, there may be some V. Frags in there but I don't remember them. and multiple times were some constructs stated to be made of brass, so theres your low, mid, mid-high, and high-ends

death killed and decapitated a Leviathan, a better shot of the size is around 6:40 or so.

Dagon could probably use a Large Size KE calc if possible

Can you call some calc group members to try their hand at this please?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

@Mr._Bambu @DemonGodMitchAubin @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir

Are any of you willing to calculate the feats listed in the post above please?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Framework of the Crowfather profile done for the time being

 

[JJSliderman]

Would the Guardian’s KE from swinging it’s hammer be notable.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Would the Guardian’s KE from swinging it’s hammer be notable.

Yes

 

[Hellbeast]

Would the Guardian’s KE from swinging it’s hammer be notable.

Probably

It’s likely made of stone and eyeballing from Darksiders 3 Death cant be overwhelmingingly smaller then 6:2 so it could be useful to pixel scale him to the Hammer

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like no calc group members are interested in calculating the feats. Is somebody else here willing and able to do so instead?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I would be willing but I'm not able, math is not my strong suit... I think @Migue79 is usually willing to calc stuff, just remember I can't ping anyone

 

[Antvasima]

I would be willing but I'm not able, math is not my strong suit... I think @Migue79 is usually willing to calc stuff, just remember I can't ping anyone

Okay.

@Migue79

Would you be willing to help out here please?

 

[Migue79]

Mmm… Sure.

Gimme… some time.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Mmm… Sure.

Gimme… some time.

Thank you and take as much time as you need!

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Thank you very much for helping out so much.

 

[Migue79]

Looking into it the 8-B feats seem... nonexistant. Things to calc are The Guardian KE and busting the corruption pustule thing

War jousting a statue through a wall in The White City(yes its the same feat as kool-aid manning it)

"A fearsome cracking, not unlike the shattering of some great peak, echoed down the street" (the statue rip, dimensions for statue below)

"He held both(hands) high above his head, and with them he supported an inconceivable weight. The effigy of the lunging angel, larger then horse and rider combined, carved of solid stone" -- "yet it seemed to scarcely even slow the fearsome pair who carried it now." (War and Ruin holding the statue of an angel, which an angel would look something like this, War's height here(About 6'2), and Ruin's height/dimensions and such to be scaled compared to War)

"With a deep grunt he snapped his body forward, hurling the sculpture with all his unnatural strength. The massive projectile soared ahead of them to slam with devastating force, not against the door, but against the stone wall some few paces to the right of the entryway. the statue shattered into heavy chunks that bounced and skittered along the roadway. The wall itself was shot through with a cobweb of deep fractures and fissures, but it had proved thick enough to stand against the bombardment."

"At the apex of Ruin's flight, the split-tongued tip of Chaoeater seemed, almost gently, to kiss the already compromised wall. Stone exploded inward in a billowing cloud of dust and jaggen shrapnel."

Maker Constructs for comparison, Several times did Death one-shot a maker construct by fragmenting it, there may be some V. Frags in there but I don't remember them. and multiple times were some constructs stated to be made of brass, so theres your low, mid, mid-high, and high-ends

death killed and decapitated a Leviathan, a better shot of the size is around 6:40 or so.

Dagon could probably use a Large Size KE calc if possible

These are the feats to calc, right? Just want to make sure.

 

[DaReaperMan]

These are the feats to calc, right? Just want to make sure.

yes. the quotes are the feats themselves and some context, The rest is essentially flavour text of War and Ruin being badasses