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Darkseid Revision

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Matthew_Schroeder

VS Battles
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So... Let's talk about Darkseid.

In the end of the absolute mess of events known as Death of the New Gods and Countdown, Darkseid's true form is mortally wounded by his son Orion, and falls into the physical multiverse being splintered apart, seemingly dying.

Later he comes back in Final Crisis as the main villain of the event, having assumed a human guise as "Boss Dark Side", and later posessing a human host to return to his real form. It's important to point-out that throughout the vast majority of the series Darkseid is either greatly weakened by his mortal wounds, deeply poisoned by Radion, slowly decaying to death, depowered due to posessing a mortal host, or all of the above.

So let's see what Darkseid, the God of Evil, can do:

In DC Universe #0, we are told what the multiverse is (A series of infinite parallel universes) and what a crisis is (An event that threatens the entire multiverse somehow). We see that Darkseid's true self fell over the entire multiverse.

When on Earth, Darkseid assumed a human guise, and though appearing normal he is crippled and dying.

At his weakest, he created "endless" false realities to torture Shilo Noma.

At the end of Final Crisis #4, Darkseid assumes a new host, regaining more power. In this state, he gives a thumbs down to reality , breaking the fourth wall in the process .

From Final Crisis #5 onwards, we see the consequences of this gesture.

First, space-time around the earth begins to crush and crumble, an time begins to be erased. The effect is quickly spreading to the entire universe.

Darkseid leaves his life-support, and proclaims that "All is one in Darkseid".

We learn that Darkseid is draggin the entire multiverse into a singularity where he is all that exists.

The Green Lanterns then start falling into a singularity where "Everything is Darkseid", and we see that this encompasses multiple universes (The red space between the alternate Earths is the Bleed).

This effect extends throughout time as well. In the 31th Century, Brainiac 5 claims that time and space are fracturing and ceasing to be, and all of reality is threatened.

A lot of things go down. Superman sees the Miracle Machine and returns to his time to rebuild it, most of Earth is being controlled by the Anti-Life Equation, the three Flashs will try using the Black Racer to defeat Darkseid, and Batman shoots Darkseid with a Radion bullet and gets hit with the Omega Beams.

At this point, all the multiverse is coming to an end .

An entire universe is crumbled into Darkseid, only the Watchtower remained.

Darkseid explains that he has become everything that exists .

He also says that all of time is becoming one time... And right after he says this he gets attacked by Death the Black Racer and "dies" .

A lot of Final Crisis #7 has a bizarre editing, with panels being out of order and scenes out of sequence stitched together. This is because Darkseid nearly destroyed time.

The final battle between Superman and Darkseid, now only a conscience freed from any physical form, ensues. Darkseid is at his weakest, but he is still a higher-dimensional, abstract Multiversal being...

Not that it matters, since Superman one-shots him by singing a frequency whose vibrations counter Darkseid's own, effectively erasing him from existence . Yes, Superman one-shot a Multiversal being by singing.

Later in the issue Superman finishes the Miracle Machine, wishes for a "Happy Ending", and thanks to it he and the other heroes are capable of killing Mandrakk the Dark Monitor, and the multiverse is repaired to normal.

... So, I think we can all agree that all of the above shows that Darkseid was affecting the entire multiverse, right? Well, I agree too. There is one evidence that says otherwise, though.

The Monitors say that Darkseid caused damage to the Orrery of Worlds, which are the 52 universes of the local multiverse. Though they don't deny him damaging other things, they don't say he did.

This strikes me as somewhat inconsistent, considering the entire storyline. Darkseid wouldn't have been able of collapsing all of space-time across the multiverse into himself if he had only affected One-Brane of a bulk made of infinite universes.

So, would upgrading Darkseid to 2-A be fine?
 
The scan about the size of the multiverse doesn't say that it's infinite, just that it's "a monumental cosmic mega-structure"

Dunno about the "endless realities" though
 
@Andrew

The Bleed being a barrier between multiverses is because they divide the infinite universes in series of 52.

And that third scan isn't from Final Crisis, it's from Justice League: The New Frontier. But it does confirm infinite universes.
 
Superman's epic singing hax should be added to his profile.

JK

Everything seems to point to 2A. Would any of this add any abilities to his profile, or just be a tier upgrade?
 
2-A seems fine and justified to me, and I'm assuming this would also scale to other New Gods / DC Gods in general, like Ares?
 
Promestein said:
2-A seems fine and justified to me, and I'm assuming this would also scale to other New Gods / DC Gods in general, like Ares?
I doubt this would scale to anyone but to Top Gods who are confirmed to be comparable. We barely ever-see True Form Greek Gods, though since we know a True Form Zeus exists others should have them too.

Orion should somewhat scale to this, but aside from Darkseid's Final Crisis feat no New God has ever shown Multiversal+ feats. 2-C at best.
 
@Matt

I know barely anything about Orion (Hell, two years ago I didn't even know he existed), but isn't Orion fated to kill Darkseid?
 
He "killed" Darkseid in Death of the New Gods. Ripped his heart. And Ares has stabbed Highfather. So the scaling would work, but none of them have 2-A feats. Now you obviously can't declare Darkseid's feat an outlier, since it's so integral to the plot of one of DC's biggest storylines ever, but it is still odd.
 
I mean, you could say the same thing about a lot of characters on the wiki. Goku Black, Zamasu, Sora, Riku, any 2-A SMT character not named Kagutsuchi or Mem Aleph, etc.

None of them have actual feats for their tiers, but they do have scaling.
 
"Any 2-A SMT character not named Kagutsuchi or Mem Aleph"

That's actually not true. YHVH, Brahman and Shesha also have 2-A feats.

But I get your point.
 
Well, considering that Orion and Highfather are almost equal with Darkseid, and I think that Ares was treated as comparable in the "Godwave" story, they should probably scale.

However, I am also uncertain if Darkseid simply affected 52 universes, or an infinite number.
 
Yeah, Ares is comparable in the Godwave storyline, so he would scale to.

Well, I think it is evident that Darkseid was affecting the entire multiverse, though some things contradict it. Highlighted this for more input.
 
So most of what i'm reading here is that he has feats that would normally put him at 2-B tops, yet he's possible 2-A given that it wouldn't make sense otherwise for him to affect it if he wasn't affecting a brane of a pack of infinite universes, right?
 
I think 2b should stay to avoid contradictions . Darkseid also created a reality warper stayne who was equal to takion ( who stopped the godwave from erasing the realm of 4th world )
 
Well, perhaps you could create an extra column for Final Crisis Darkseid then?
 
I feel like that can work. I just don't know if giving a solid 2-A works for Darkseid. At least as is. Most of the evidence here points to 2-B rather than 2-A, if i have to honestly speak that out.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, perhaps you could create an extra column for Final Crisis Darkseid then?
But Darkseid in Final Crisis is weaker than Full-Power True Form Darkseid. It's also his only feat.

We could go with "At least 2-B, likely 2-A"
 
That could be an idea, yes.
 
Destroying the entire 4th World is a 2-B feat considering both Apokolips and New Genesis are Multiverse-sized in true forms
An explanation is required for why destroying the entire 4th world is a 2-B feat, especially since being able of collapsing all of space-time across the multiverse would be 2-A, if the multiverse in question is truly infinite.

Alternatively, we can make a separate key for Final Crisis Darkseid.

If people really do want Darkseid's current ratings to stay, the description for Darkseid's 2-B rating should be adjusted, as its description leans towards a 2-A rating [due to the size of the Marvel Multiverse being infinite].
 
We cannot make a key for Final Crisis Darkseid, he is DEPOWERED in Final Crisis and is weaker than 100% True Form Darkseid.

@Lina

All mortal universes inside bubbles in the one reality of the 4th World. Each realm of the Sphere of the Gods is effectively a multiverse.

Multiverse Map.

Both New Genesis and Apokolips would be 2-A each since they can contain all universes inside it. Heaven and Hell are both confirmed to be infinite multiverses, and Dream / Nightmare are also infinite multiverses since the dreams of all beings across the multiverse take form there.
 
So you're trying to say that Darkseid, and by extension others, are 2-A due to each world containing infinite universes, right?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Heaven and Hell are both confirmed to be infinite multiverses, and Dream / Nightmare are also infinite multiverses since the dreams of all beings across the multiverse take form there.
Do you have any scans for that ?
 
Okay. How about this:

Darkseid True Form

Attack Potency:
At least Multi-Universe level (During Final Crisis, he nearly destroyed the 52 universes of the Orrery of Worlds, while weakened and dying), likely Multiverse level+ (Repeatedly implied to be capable of eradicating the entire multiverse with his power)
 
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