Dark Souls vs Code Vein again: Nameless King vs The Queenslayer

[DarkGrath]

Bearer is currently about to go through revisions, so I'll have to leave that match on hold for now.

Post-Stormdrake's Soul Absorption Nameless King versus the End-Game Queenslayer (Both Low 6-B)

Speed is Equalised. Fight takes place in the Stormdrake Arena, 40m away from each other. The Queenslayer has a mistle set up outside the arena. Otherwise, SBA.

Who will win?

The reason I have a broken controller:

Dark Souls protag but edgier: 1 (SanguineStorms)

Highway to Hell:

 

[DarkGrath]

Bump

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

AP Difference?

 

[DarkGrath]

Queenslayer is around 773 Gigatons, if I remember correctly.

I don't remember what it was for Nameless King, I think it comes from this calc? I don't know the conversion to gigatons though.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, I have no idea how to convert that to anything.

 

[DarkGrath]

It actually looks like the calc is Small Country level, not Large Island level? I can't quite tell though, and chances are I'm just a doofus who doesn't know calcs.

I'll ask about it.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Good idea. Nameless King used to be 6-B for the same feat from that Calc.

 

[Randomlamdom]

It's 1.56 teratons

 

[DarkGrath]

...and that's Low 6-B, Small Country level. Wheras the calc says it's a Large Island level calc. So something's wrong here.

I've contacted the dude who made the calc about it.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Something seems kinda off here...

 

[DarkGrath]

Yeah. I've contacted a few people about it, and asked the calc group over the Versus Central discord. I'll get back to y'all on it when I get an answer.

 

[DarkGrath]

Got a response.

Turns out, the whole thing is Low 6-B. So, uh. Changing keys then.

 

[DarkGrath]

Aight, done.

Nameless King is around 1.5 teratons, and Queenslayer is around 2.6 teratons in this key.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Someone should fix the Dark Souls Profiles then because a lot of scaling comes from this feat.

 

[DarkGrath]

Mr Bambu and M3X have stated that they will get around to fixing up the mentions of High 6-C with the Low 6-B feat. Either way though, still the same energy value mentioned above, so this match can continue.

 

[DarkGrath]

Bump

 

[SanguineStorms]

I don't really see a reason why the Queenslayer couldn't kill him, he actually has alot more versatility than the Ashen one in the form of being able to mix match Gifts and Blood codes.

If Gameplay is taken into account he's s whole helluva faster than him too in both movement and attacking.

Queenslayer got this.

The fight against Nameless king wasn't something absurd that makes him impossible to fight amongst Souls-like Protags.

William from Nioh would honestly body him aswell.

 

[DarkGrath]

I'm willing to put your vote up due to the argument of having a versatility advantage, though I should note that speed is equalised.

 

[SanguineStorms]

I'm willing to put your vote up due to the argument of having a versatility advantage, though I should note that speed is equalised.

I was more so referring to gameplay, Like how Queenslayer is swifter in terms of gliding about and rolling.

He does it faster than Ashen one by a large margin.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

That's Gameplay.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Also, I really doubt anyone in Nioh could body the Nameless king in terms of raw skill. The dude's been fighting for thousands of years.

 

[SanguineStorms]

Also, I really doubt anyone in Nioh could body the Nameless king in terms of raw skill. The dude's been fighting for thousands of years.

Jin Hayabusa Bodies him on the virtue of literally being Ryu Hayabusa Great ancestor that has the True Dragon Sword.

William can fight him to a draw.

Yamato no Orochi also Stands far above the Nameless king along with a few others.

Nue already Creates storms just by existing and its a far weaker Yokai.

Experience has never been a you win instantly card or you will win instantly.

I often see Rookie MMA fighters either knock Vets on their asses or knock them out.

The Ashen one also is implied to be a Rookie in experience based on his starting equipment.

And him dying alot honestly just lets him learn the opponent and how they fight better.

This is usually the case of any Souls protag or Souls like protag.

Finally, William meets Ryu Hayabusa in warrior All stars and Ryu makes it clear that William is very skilled and not to be underestimated. Ryu also briefly squares off with William.

Ryu bodies Nameless king effortlessly.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

ok what the shit why are we talking about Nioh in a dark souls vs code vain thread that's thread derailment at its finest. Buuut since it already started might as well give my two cents.

That has nothing to do with Skill or experience though its AP bullshit and too be honest a hundred thousand year old god of war who fought dragons and other gods for a living is far superior in terms of skill and experience then anyone in Nioh/code vain so far and unless they plant to introduce some warrior as ancient as the human race into the mix then nameless king kinda takes the skill/experience quota by a ******* country mile.

Well yeah if the AP and hax can counter act said skill then true is not an instant win card, but if the AP is close and hax are not prevalent then it is an insta win card.

Thats AP not skill my dude plus that is mostly due to the vets not being in their prime being slower and over all weaker which doesn't quite apply to an immortal god of war but what ever.

Ehhh that's not how that works man you can literally start the game wearing nothing but a loin cloth and cave man club and later down the line you can beat ancient warriors and gods in one sitting calling ashen one a "rookie" when he/she in lore got to the point of linking the fire before (but ultimately failed at it the first time around) is pretty disingenuous and bias.

That point can be applied to any souls like protag William can die a dozen times and come back knowing how his opponent fights better queen slayer is the same shtick and so on just applying it to the soul protags is ageing disingenuous ageing.

Wait rooting tooting ******* second are you using cross overs? Seriously? One we don't do that on this wiki if we did every god damned marvel and dc character would scale off one another, two that's as none canon as it gets my dude

well that depends which Key are we using here because nameless king one shot any key that isn't 6B and above

 

[SanguineStorms]

ok what the shit why are we talking about Nioh in a dark souls vs code vain thread that's thread derailment at its finest. Buuut since it already started might as well give my two cents.

That has nothing to do with Skill or experience though its AP bullshit and too be honest a hundred thousand year old god of war who fought dragons and other gods for a living is far superior in terms of skill and experience then anyone in Nioh/code vain so far and unless they plant to introduce some warrior as ancient as the human race into the mix then nameless king kinda takes the skill/experience quota by a ******* country mile.

Well yeah if the ap and hax can counter act said skill then true is not an instant win card, but if the ap is close and hax are not prevalent then it is an insta win card.

Thats ap not skill my dude plus that is mostly due to the vets not being in their prime being slower and over all weaker which doesn't quite apply to an immortal god of war but what ever.

Ehhh that's not how that works man you can literally start the game wearing nothing but a loin cloth and cave man club and later down the line you can beat ancient warriors and gods in one sitting calling ashen one a "rookie" when he/she in lore got to the point of linking the fire before (but ultimately failed at it the first time around) is pretty disingenuous and bias.

That point can be applied to any souls like protag William can die a dozen times and come back knowing how his opponent fights better queen slayer is the same shtick and so on just applying it to the soul protags is ageing disingenuous ageing.

Wait rooting tooting ******* second are you using cross overs? Seriously? One we don't do that on this wiki if we did every god damned marvel and dc character would scale off one another, two that's as none canon as it gets my dude

well that depends which Key are we using here because nameless king one shot any key that isn't 6B and above

Its not a crossover when both Nioh and Ninja Gaiden have been confirmed to be the same verse.

Doesnt get rid of the fact William has drawed Jin Hayabusa who is the ancestor of Ryu.

At the start of the game they are 100% a rookie its evident on your equipment for one.

Choosing the depraved class doesnt make them any less of one.

In fact the classes in general explictly point out how your Ashen one/Chosen undead etc is nothing special and would be considered a mook.

Nothing implies he became masterful in any regards as the game progressed only that he became physically stronger.

If we compared who can use a sword better between William and a Souls protag its hands down William.

And i have and beat all the Souls games.

Living weapon also allows him to stomp out the nameless king pretty easily.

and so on just applying it to the soul protags is ageing disingenuas againg.

^ Never once only applied it to them.

I pointed out how it lets them gain the upperhand against an enemy and that they are able to learn how the enemy fights more.

This goes for Queenslayer etc. Not so much William since hes canonly only died one time shown in cutscene.

While the Queenslayer has died twice canonly.

While the rest are left ambigious.


Killing Dragons literally comes nowhere close to taking out Yamato No Orochi.

That's literally the japanese lore equal to the devil since it was Susanoo in lore that killed it.

William Kills it despite it being brought back to life amped up on Amrita.

Anyway, on track now.

Queenslayer has far more Versality than the Ashen one and can literally turn into particles to evade blows and pretty much spam this.

His weapons are also ever adapting and implied to be alive. Bloodveils in general give him a pretty big versatile advantage alongside some of his more busted gifts.

The Nameless King hasnt took on anything near the league of world ending threats.

The Queenslayer has.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

First don't quote large post you fill the thread up with un-needed tex.

That is speculation but even if it confirmed later down the line the two have never canonically fought mate making that whole point moot my man.

And? how dose fighting a character who is at best a few thousand years old compere in any way to a tens of thousands potentially hundreds of thousands year old god of war?

They're not a rookie, they have come to the point of linking the flame before that is what an ashen one is a failed lord of cinder who was not enough of a fuel source for the first flame that alone is enough to prove that the ashen one is as far from a rookie as it gets equipment means jack shit if I'm honest with you, he can be knight an assassin a mage but that means nothing because in the end he is capable of fighting and overcoming warriors that have thousands of years of battle experience that alone is enough proof that he/she did become more masterful and proficient as time when by, hell the ashen one can literally pick up any weapon and use proficiently even to the point of drawing upon its latent magical powers if need be.

If we use gameplay as you've been doing it seems both of them are subpar fighters since their attacks leave immensely big openings but we are not using gameplay but lore for both and guess what ashen one would be a better fighter over all due to the enemies he faced.

Living weapons are basically buffs or more commonly known on the wiki as hax just saying of he uses this ability he wins is not a good point you need to give reasons to why it would give William a winning condition and evaluate your points just saying living weapon GG isn't a good point.

So just like William and queen slayer making the point moot ageing? Gotcha.

So they canonically at least died once each? unlike the soul's protags who can blast through the games without dyeing at all? hell you even get a reward for that in ds 2.

Just because its the devil doesn't really make it impressive skill wise at most what that applys to is AP and we are debating skill here,.

Debatable both of them have a myriad of hax abilities that have many applications and many of their abilities are borderline the same which are mostly resisted by the nameless king mind you

what hax does it give off my dude just naming abilities and not saying what they advantage they give off in this fight isn't gonna win you any points

you except the dragon which ruled the world and later on gods who are at the very least comparable to the monsters of code vein.

 

[DarkGrath]

Aight, what's even going on? This is going off on a masssssssive tangent.

To summarise what needs to be said, a lot of the skill scaling being suggested is very far off from how we acceptably scale skill. Though I would still argue that the skill of characters such as the Nameless King is highly exaggerated for many reasons, and I'd willingly contest many of the arguments for the skill of DS characters, the Nameless King still most likely has a skill advantage here. Nothing stompish or absurd, but still probably more skilled than The Queenslayer.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

im not saying the nameless king skill stomps im not even voting really i just wanted to make it clear that the nameless king is definitly not getting skill stomped

 

[DarkGrath]

Definitely not getting skill stomped, not even close. The Nameless King is still pretty damn impressive in skill, and I'd argue he has at least a decent advantage in that regard.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

yep thats my point too

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Indeed.

 

[SanguineStorms]

I'll go into detail why the Queenslayer kills the Nameless king I actually have no issue doing this.

First, Speed is equal which means Shifting hollow is going to be a very big middle finger to the nameless king.

Second. Since we are going off by lore and not gameplay since experience keeps being thrown about.

Then I will point out how this means there is no Cooldowns on the Queenslayer's gifts which means for aslong as he has Ichor he can use them indefinitely.

Third. Merciless Reaper+Bridge to glory+Adrenaline+swift destruction and Final journey followed by Severing abyss is goodbye Nameless king.

Merciless Reaper by default ignores half the defense of the target, this half shoots up to 100% defense of the target when you factor in Bridge to glory, Adrenaline etc.

Which means Severing Abyss WILL MASSIVELY **** the nameless king up.

This isn't getting into the fact that Shifting hollow effectively makes him untouchable especially since speed is equal.

Alternately he hits the Nameless King with Leak and drains all the blood from his body killing him.

To further tilt this in the Queenslayer's favor is foul blood barrier that absorbs the damage of a single blow before being destroyed preventing the Queenslayer from taking damage.

You didnt specify which end the Queenslayer has taken so by all means summoning countless Thorns of judgement and absolutely skewering nameless king with them till he's dead ala Gate of babylon is a very viable option.

Too many things make the Queenslayer counter Nameless, Merciless reaper exceptionally so follow that up with Severing abyss while being self buffed to god knows what standards and the nameless king is quickly going to be wishing he was fighting the Ashen one instead of this Edgy stylish anime vampire.

Also, The dragons were never considered to be a threat to the world in Darksouls the darkness was but for other reasons.

The Virgin born is stated to be both on the official Bandai namco site and official artbook of CV to be a world ending threat hidden behind the Veil.

The Queen herself is likened to an event that caused nearly all of humanity to be killed off.

The Virgin born would decidedly stomp Nameless and he has no way to put it down since it was shown to be repairing the damage that was inflicted on it by the queenslayer near instantly when he does beat it.

I'm not getting into comparing the Dragons to Aragami outside the Vein.

Aragami would rofl stomp the dark souls setting by virtue of being immune to physical damage that doesnt have some very wonky effects like being warped by the mist in the vein.

And the fact that several Aragami are absurd I.E Ra literally holds two suns in its hands.

 

[DarkGrath]

I do appreciate the enthusiasm for the match, but please. Do tone down the length of the messages a bit? Just so like, it's not overwhelming to look at everything?

 

[Sir_sun_man]

also can you name what the ability does aka what hax it is specificly instead of going, oh he will just use this [put arbitrary ability name here] and that will give him the win

explain what the ability does and how it is going to help them win ok?

 

[SanguineStorms]

I already explained what abilities do what. Merciless reaper ignores a good part of the enemies defense.

Adrenaline ups his attack, Overdrive further ups his attack, Bridge to glory Further amps it and Swift destruction upgrades it even further.

Final Journey then MASSIVELY upgrades his stats. Shifting hollow the Queenslayer turns into mist to mimic a teleport and cannot be hurt while in mist form.

Severing abyss is an attack that has the Queenslayer focusing a large amount of Ichor into one splitting attack that already by itself does Absurd damage.

Assuming he has a one handed sword to be fair and not the Obliterator axe.

If he has that he can set up for a blow that is outright instant killing or fatal.

If he has a greatsword like Judgement edge tormenting blast will destroy him with all those buffs set up.

Foul blood barrier negs the first attack of any blow before he's able to be damaged.

Alternatively he could merciless reaper, Overdrive then go ape shit buffing himself while dodging the nameless king then Tranquil slice him hitting him with a Slash that creates a vacuum and is Unprecivable.

 

[DarkGrath]

To specify a few of the things SanguineStorms has mentioned in terms of abilities (since it's a bit hard to tell with the phrasing):

- A metric ton of abilities for Statistics Amplification that he can apply to himself (most notably to increase his AP)

- A metric ton of abilities for Statistics Reduction that he can apply to his enemies

- Awakened Power, that massively buffs his AP, Durability, Speed, and Lifting Strength for a short time with Final Journey

- A few forms of forcefield creation

- Spatial Manip with Tranquil Slice, to split the air and form a vacuum from a distance

 

[Gojii-san]

Actually, Merciless Reaper cuts resistances to a quarter and increases weaknesses fourfold. Nameless King is weak to fire, which means Final Journey + Merciless Reaper + Dark Shout + Dancing Fireblade or Walpurgis Fire are going to hurt. Testing what he's weak to won't take much time as our Successor here has only 4 elements to work with.

Foulblood Barrier reduces damage taken by a single attack to 50%. Doesn't negate all of it.

There is a Greatsword equivalent of Severing Abyss now too and it's much stronger due to using heavy weapons (its multiplier is 500% compared to SA's 508%, but that's not much of a difference, especially when you take into account which weapons are used). Fire buff + Mobility Enhancer + Swift Destruction (+20%) + 2H Mastery (+20%) + Flashing Fang (+100%) + Overdrive (+25%) + Final Journey (+50%) + Bridge to Glory (a flat amount, depends on the veil) + Adrenaline (+10%) + Blow of Madness (a flat amount, not sure how it fits here, but it is a boost nonetheless) + Merciless Reaper (enemy's weaknesses are quadrupled and resistances are reduced by 75%) + Steadfast Strike and you've got some real nonsense damage.

 

[SanguineStorms]

@Gojii-san

Foulblood Barrier reduces damage taken by a single attack to 50%. Doesn't negate all of it.

I forgot about this. I only said what i said because when Yakumo casted it on me and i got hit it dispelled and I took no damage.

My bad.


Merciless Reaper cuts resistances to a quarter and increases weaknesses fourfold

Wait- where does it say it increases weaknesses?

In game description says. Ignores an enemy's physical and weapon defense for your next attack.

 

[Gojii-san]

In-game descriptions do not always match up with what the Gifts actually do. For example, Dogged Fighter does NOT increase stagger resistance. It merely activates it at all times rather than only when you're attacking despite saying that it "temporarily increases stagger resistance versus enemy attacks." Some outright lie, like Lupinus Vita, which "reduces guard STA usage & dodge speed, but increases ATK" except it doesn't increase attack power at all.

There are also some weapon descriptions which contradict the lore. For example, Invading Executioner is said to have been reduced to ash except that is outright impossible as the Lost are truly immortal.

The game had a troubled development cycle and a lot of changes have been made since its conception, but not everything has been adjusted to fix everything.

 

[SanguineStorms]

Huh yeah you're right. The lore in the Assassin sickle says the invading executioner was reduced to ash and makes it seem like she was completely killed.

But the game implies she's a greater lost.

But- could she have been another revenant that Mido experimented on like Miguel?

He wasn't a Lost and we permanently kill him.

 

[Gojii-san]

Unlikely. She's adapted to the environment of that area, which suggests she's been there for a while and she's way too far away from where Mido operates. She's also called a Lost ("The Lost who bore it has been reduced to ash").

We don't know if Miguel's actually dead. Oliver and Queen's Knight Reborn leave behind vestiges in spite of being proper Lost and they don't respawn either. Same goes for Butterfly, who is called a Lost too.