Dark Kahn revisions

[BlackDarkness679]

The profile was supposed to get some changes for a long time, but they never happened, so its about time to get to them

Speed
First i wanna talk about his speed, currently he scales from Shao Kahn, for being stronger then him, which is fair i guess as he is a fusion of him and Darkseid, but he should also scale to Darkseid, more specifically Injustice version, reason being that the crossover across Injustice 2 and MK11 is referenced, including Dark Kahn, even Darkseid remembers it, will list some of them here:

Injustice 2

1)Joker: You look familiar...

Subzero: We joined in kombat against Dark Kahn

Joker: Sadly you won't outlive me

2)Flash: Oh no. Not again

Subzero: This realm must prepare for kombat

Flash: I pick up when duty calls

3)Subzero: I did not expect we would meet again

Catwoman: Fancy meeting you here darling

Subzero: We must prepare ourselves for dark magic


4)Darkseid: We have met before

Subzero: Of that I'm painfully aware


5)Batman: Thanks for coming back

Raiden: My aid can tip the balance against Brainiac?

Batman: We're about to find out


6)Raiden: When we last met I respected you

Superman: Are you gonna turn on me too?

Raiden: I will act as needed to save your realm


7)Superman: You're leaving Earth, now!

Raiden: We were allies on Apokolips Superman

Superman: Here we're not


8)Darkseid: We have met before

Raiden: Dark Kahn! Of course!


9)Joker: Met the other lighting guy?

Black Adam: With the bamboo hat? Yes


Mortal Kombat 11

1)Joker: We didn't meet the last time I was here

Cassie Cage: This isn't your first visit?

Joker: Nobody told you? I was all the rage


2)Sonya Blade: There a reason you've came back?

Joker: Don't worry. The punchline's coming soon

Sonya Blade: Over my dead body, clown


3)Sonya Blade: Had enough of you the first time

Joker: Aww, don't like losing in graveyards?

Sonya Blade: Not to some face-painted freak


4)Joker: Whatever happened to Dark Kahn?

Kotal Kahn: Dark Kahn?

Joker: Oh that's right, you missed it


5)Scorpion: You, I remember all to well

Joker: Aww, the back of your head still hurting?

Scorpion: I should've burned you right then and there


6)Raiden: I dreamt of a strange and unjust world

Subzero: With a dark knight and a caped wonder?

Raiden: How could you know my dream?


7)Cetrion: I have seen the world beyond the realms

Subzero: Then Raiden and I did go there?

Cetrion: It was no dream Subzero


And not just that, but Dominic Cianciolo, who is a story and voiceover director at NetherRealm Studios has spoken in regards to that not long ago:

" Dominic Cianciolo: It's something that's often been asked of us, whether after the mass confrontation, between Raiden and Liu Kang whether or not to trust Shang Tsung, which directly calls back to a similar beat in Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe is intended to make those events of MK DC canon. And the answer is yes, definitely. For sure. Uh, we can assume that those events happened in one of Kronika's many previous timelines. Clearly she thought it was a mistake because she rolled it back and got rid of it. But yeah, when we looked at this idea of multiple timelines, we were hoping to be able to integrate a lot of you know, past lore including Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe. It was a lot of fun for us to be able to reference that back and we knew that our most observant fans and those fans that have been with us through the whole history of the game we're going to pick up on that and see that similarity. "

This should suffice to say Dark Kahn scales to Darkseid speed rating he currently has, from its injustice version, since that Darkseid fused with Shao Kahn to create him in the first place, its all but confirmed too with the canonicity.

In case thats not accepted for whatever reason may be, then he should at least scale out from Flash, who is said in the crossover profile of the character to be reaching nearly the speed of light, Dark Kahn obviously scales since it took the combined power of both Superman and Raiden, amped up even, in order to defeat him for good. So regardless a speed upgrade is to come out of this.

Haxes

He needs either some justification for many of them, a change in them or even some new ones added to the profile so imma go through all of these from what i could gather:

1) Weapon Mastery (has access to Shao Kahn hammer, which he wields as skillfully as him)

2) Energy Manipulation (can amplify some of his attacks with yellow energy surrounding him)

3) Existence Erasure (he was responsible for the disappearance of certain characters from both Mortal Kombat and DC, as he erased their existence)

4) Forcefield and Attack Reflection (can generate a barrier which can send attacks back to the opponent, he also shown he can reflect attacks back with his hand)

5) Flight (shown the capability of flying)

6) Immortality (Type 1, 3 and 6, scaling from both Shao Kahn and Darkseid, his consciousness will still exist and attempt to possesses others body)

7) Light and Sound Manipulation (capable of generating blinding yellow flashes of light and deafening thunderclaps)

8) Magma Manipulation (can blast opponents with molten rock projectiles)

9) Reality Warping (was warping both the Mortal Kombat and DC universes into one by his mere existence)

10) Empathic Manipulation and Telepathy (can talk telepathically with others in their head and through his kombat rage, he can manipulate others minds to turn against even their allies and succumb them into madness, has done it on all heroes and villains of both universes, can even do it on a whole race, like the Tarkatans, from which Baraka is apart of)

11) Illusion Creation (made Sonya believe that Jax was Kano, as well as Liu Kang think that Batman was Shang Tsung)

12) BFR (Dark Kahn has teleported characters from both universes into each others universe)

13) Possession and Non-Conporeal (Dark Kahn consciousness can possesses others body even after he was destroyed)

14) Statistics amplifications and reductions (can amplify and reduce the power of others)

15) Teleportation (shown the ability to teleport)

16) Master Martial Artist (Scales from Shao Kahn, as he possesses his skill and fighting styles)

17) Limited Invulnerability (via kombat rage, Dark Kahn can make himself invincible for a short duration of time)

The others haxes listed there coming from the comic book Darkseid should be removed and instead use those of its injustice counterpart, as well anything described in his crossover character profile as well, also any link directing to comic book Darkseid should be removed and be replaced with Injustice version as already said

AP, Durability and Intelligence

Now these last 3 things just need to receive a better justification with more solid evidence.


First for Intelligence should again be scaled from both Shao Kahn and Darkseid (injustice), and given the following justification:

Gifted (he has the memories of both Shao Kahn and Darkseid, which would give him both their fighting skills, experience and intellect)


Now for AP it should be as this:

Low Multiverse level (has been stated numerous time throughout the story mode of both sides of the video game, as well as the prequel comic book, that Dark Kahn was merging both the Mortal Kombat and DC universes into one, including their time and space, his destruction undone the merging of the two universes at the end of the game)


And finally Durability as this:

Low Multiversal (took the combined efforts of both Superman and Raiden amped up by the kombat rage, in order to kill him for good)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I was thinking about revisions for Dark Kahn, and most of these seem solid. I do agree Dark Kahn should logically be superior to the combined might of Shao Kahn and Injustice Darkseid. I pretty much agree with most of this except there were actually plans for a striking strength and durability downgrade.

It's been agreed that merging two or mote timelines is similar to environmental destruction feats. So while being 2-C via Universe merging and Low Multiversal range via combat rage is fine. But his physical stats should be treated similarly to his speed in which he just upscales above Injustice Darkseid and Shao Kahn.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

If thats the case, Ultron Sigma, Mundus, Argosax and any other characters with similar feats should receive the same treatment as him, cuz honestly thats double standard if only he gets them but others not

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm pretty sure those might get tackled too eventually. And something about Universal power sources that are explained in detail also can apply exceptions. Or thing physically force the two universes to fuse and the like.

Though, I'm fine with waiting for a project like that to be made. So I'm fine with the current proposals for now.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Dark Kahn mere existence is what made up the two universes merge as we seen from both the game and comic book, his death also undone the merge, so imo it should apply to physicals too

But regardless till that project is gonna happen, these should be applied if they are ok

 

[ElixirBlue]

I agree with the canon presented from Injustice and MK11.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Bump

 

[SamanPatou]

I agree with everything, but I think the energy he uses for his punches is fire, at least that's what looks like to me, but it's no big deal.
Also Illusion creation seems more Perception Manipulation, but still small things.

However, I agree with Medeus that his striking and durability should not scale to his AP. I also agree with Ultron Sigma.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The last bit should be handled when a thread for all characters with similar feats is made, that way all can be taken care of instead of just one character and the rest after

 

[BlackDarkness679]

@DarkDragonMedeus

Can i apply the CRT or it needs more input?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I might tag @MrKingOfNegativity and @Qawsedf234 as they both seem knowledgeable on Mortal Kombat and Injustice respectively.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Personally I'm not 100% on scaling him to Injustice Darkseid, solely because as the WoG mentioned it's from a rebooted timeline. Which is important since the timelines have different levels of powers and different feats. Like the Midway TL having up to High 6-A character ending statements and Low 2-C prep feats or the new TL having better showings for the top tiers with the 7-B stuff.

Dark Khan comes from a previous timeline seemingly, so he's scaling to a different Darkseid. Though I will say if the agreement is that Injustice Darkseid is the same as DCvsMK Darkseid then yeah he'd upscale

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I don't have time to analyze something like this when I have my own extensive CRTs and other endeavors I'm working on.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Personally I'm not 100% on scaling him to Injustice Darkseid, solely because as the WoG mentioned it's from a rebooted timeline. Which is important since the timelines have different levels of powers and different feats. Like the Midway TL having up to High 6-A character ending statements and Low 2-C prep feats or the new TL having better showings for the top tiers with the 7-B stuff.

Dark Khan comes from a previous timeline seemingly, so he's scaling to a different Darkseid. Though I will say if the agreement is that Injustice Darkseid is the same as DCvsMK Darkseid then yeah he'd upscale

Injustice has no timeline shenanigans as far as we are concerned compared to MK, the injustice characters remember the crossover so it cant be any other characters, MKvsDC Darkseid is Injustice Darkseid

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm fine with scaling him above Injustice Darkseid; it has more support to it than Shao Kahn to be fair.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

So i can apply this then? @DarkDragonMedeus

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Injustice has no timeline shenanigans as far as we are concerned compared to MK, the injustice characters remember the crossover so it cant be any other characters, MKvsDC Darkseid is Injustice Darkseid

To be fair (and I don't plan on saying much else, but I do want to point this out), this makes even less sense in context in that case.

Darkseid was imprisoned in the Netherrealm at the end of MKvDCU. Several characters (like Aquaman and Robin) were erased as per the very scan you posted (contrasting with Injustice, where they weren't), and on the MK side of things, Raiden and Sub-Zero clearly come from a different continuity than the one Injustice takes place in, since the beginning of MKvDCU shows us that Shao Kahn is working to directly serve Quan Chi and Shinnok's goals in that game. (Contrasting with MK9 and the rest of MK's New Timeline, where Shao Kahn wants to merge Earthrealm with Outworld for his own inscrutable ends and the latter two are confirmed to have been working separately from him the whole time.)

Going off that, the idea that Injustice takes place within the same exact continuity as MKvDCU (without any timeline shenanigans to speak of) doesn't mesh very well and creates more gaping holes than anything else.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

And imma tell you, that you shown you clearly didnt bothered really to get involved on the matter to prove it wrong actually

MKvsDC shows in both Shao Kahn and Darkseid endings that the ways they were dealt with by each side was only temporary, Shao Kahn escaped from the phantom zone and Darkseid regained his power after Shang Tsung tried stealing his soul and backfired on him

The characters erased by Dark Kahn doesnt mean anything, all things started from him were undone, the kombat rage, the merging, all went away after his death, also since its counted as timeline that happened from Kronika doing, she might as well have changed some stuff

No it doesnt and by timeline shenanigans i mean injustice didnt had characters from the past and future collide or change events like MK did from MK9, so saying the crossover didnt happen when everything else points otherwise including word of god is non sense from you

I could go also argue for MK about how the only difference between their two timelines we seen is the direction it went on to avoid getting armaggdon again, also that its not a reboot like Post Crisis or New 52, old Raiden sent warnings to himself from the past and from there they changed time

Edit: And forgot, the Raiden and Subzero who guested in being taken as separate characters from MK versions is unfounded, when evidence clearly suggests the opposite, they even have dialogues about the timelines shenanigans that MK11 took on latter as the reason for the encounters happening

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Even if you disagree on that, which i expected from some, the flash from the crossover is stated he can go at near light speed in the bio and Dark Kahn would be scaling above him as he is the God Tier in that event

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

MKvsDC shows in both Shao Kahn and Darkseid endings that the ways they were dealt with by each side was only temporary, Shao Kahn escaped from the phantom zone and Darkseid regained his power after Shang Tsung tried stealing his soul and backfired on him

Those are character endings. Endings which are not a part of the main story and, as is the case with Midway/NRS games, serve more as rewards for beating the arcade mode than actual, worthwhile sources.

The characters erased by Dark Kahn doesnt mean anything, all things started from him were undone, the kombat rage, the merging, all went away after his death, also since its counted as timeline that happened from Kronika doing, she might as well have changed some stuff

The erased characters didn't magically reappear at the end of the story, so unless there's another part of MKvsDCU that shows Aquaman and Robin aren't nonexistent anymore, there is no proof that the character erasure was reversed.

And if Kronika changed the timeline, that debunks the entire idea of Injustice Darkseid being the same as MKvsDCU Darkseid to begin with.

No it doesnt and by timeline shenanigans i mean injustice didnt had characters from the past and future collide or change events like MK did from MK9, so saying the crossover didnt happen when everything else points otherwise including word of god is non sense from you

Is this the tone you take with everyone who says things you don't agree with, or am I just special?

You've also contradicted yourself. Either Kronika changed the timeline and Injustice isn't the same exact universe as MKvsDCU, or nothing changed at all and therefore the gaps in continuity between the two games aren't something that can be dismissed. You're trying to have both and neither at the same time, and it doesn't work that way.

I could go also argue for MK about how the only difference between their two timelines we seen is the direction it went on to avoid getting armaggdon again, also that its not a reboot like Post Crisis or New 52, old Raiden sent warnings to himself from the past and from there they changed time

Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Edit: And forgot, the Raiden and Subzero who guested in being taken as separate characters from MK versions is unfounded, when evidence clearly suggests the opposite, they even have dialogues about the timelines shenanigans that MK11 took on latter as the reason for the encounters happening

The entire setup leading up to the events of MKvsDCU shows us that Shao Kahn's motivations are completely different from what they were in MK's New Timeline. There's no other way to slice that. If the MK characters appearing in Injustice come from the New Timeline, then they come from a timeline where Shao Kahn isn't (knowingly) working for Shinnok, which is not the case in MKvsDCU.

Even if you disagree on that, which i expected from some, the flash from the crossover is stated he can go at near light speed in the bio and Dark Kahn would be scaling above him as he is the God Tier in that event

Never a point I addressed, let alone argued against.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Anyway, I've said all I feel like saying in this thread, so I'll be unfollowing now. The people here can take what I've said into consideration, or they can ignore it. Whichever choice they make is none of my concern at the end of the day.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

1)so you just gonna ignore them for no reason....when they explain you both escaped from their situations and it was but a temporary thing when your concern was they were dealt with by each side

2)There is no proof from you to suggest that at all, MKvsDC and what happened was due to Dark Kahn existence, him being destroyed undid anything that had to do with him, it inclines more towards all being reversed then your assumed thing

Also this doesnt debunk it either and it ties to the other issue were you claim for MK soon to be adressed, something that makes no sense, you literally have no proof to say MKvsDC Darkseid isnt the Injustice one, at worst it can be said its the same character but with altered events due to Kronika

3)excuse me, but when you have proper counters that the characters in the crossover aint the same as the ones from both games then you will have an argument, both games and word of god say otherwise, you saying no and disagreeing just like that arent counters

4)not irrelevant since it concerns MK too, new timeline starts exactly from where the old timeline has too, Raiden from armageddon warns his past self about the events to change so it doesnt lead where it is now, claiming MK9 and onwards is a new 52 or post crisis deal is unfounded, let alone contradicted and not even the same case you compare them to, they are different characters from another universe, not a past or future thing which is what MK is about with this

The 2011 game is literally the first 3 games from back in the day, but with events altered as explained earlier why and evident in the game too and MK11 makes those same characters from that game meet the current present ones to meet again

5)still doesnt adress anything, all that changed on shao kahn cuz of the alteration of events, not disproving it as being the same character essentially

TL;DR

MKvsDC Darkseid its the same character as Injustice Darkseid, at worse the same character similarly more or less, but with changes due to Kronika timeline she alters

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Nothing out of this discussion exchange debunked anything and proof is against these regardless

If that was all im gonna wait again to see about applying these is fine

 

[Qawsedf234]

said its the same character but with altered events due to Kronika

That in of itself would make any back scaling questionable. Personally I feel its better to do something like "Possibly Low 6-B" and "Rel+, possibly MFTL+". Since I agree that the scaling is not super hard for Dark Khan to Injustice.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I can agree with Rel+, possibly MFTL+, sounds like a good compromise

Although the low 6-B thing, like i mentioned some comments earlier and medeus i think said it too, its another matter for a different thread regarding the characters with feats similar to the Dark Kahn merging feat

So that should be adressed along with other characters for that time, seems unfair to be the only one given the nerf while others will keep it till they get it too imo

 

[Qawsedf234]

The Possibly Low 6-B thing was in-case the Tier 2 stuff was revised.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Ah i see, well when its revised in the future then i have no problem with that

So i guess this can be applied now right? Medeus and others agreed too earlier

 

[Qawsedf234]

If there's no more disagreements, then yeah.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Neat, would do them after i wake up then

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

If thats the case, Ultron Sigma, Mundus, Argosax and any other characters with similar feats should receive the same treatment as him, cuz honestly thats double standard if only he gets them but others not

That's different. Dark Kahn ain't scaled to DC comics, only Injustice, as it seems to be canon for both Injustice and MK

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Uhm....what exactly are you trying to say with this?....i also said he aint scaling to DC comics, but injustice version instead

And the characters mentioned have the same kind of feats as him which is put on their physicals too

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

What's wrong with tier 2?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Refer above to the comments from the very start

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Revisions applied, this should be closed now and Dark Kahn profile should also be locked @DarkDragonMedeus

 

[BlackDarkness679]

@DarkDragonMedeus can you please close this and the profile updated