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Dante Vs Shallow Vernal
- Thread starter Lightning_XXI
- Start date
Noneless21
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I mean just like what the people at the non-smurf thread said, either Shiro completely deletes him via plot erasure and he can't come back or he did and gain resistance and stomp her
The question is, does Dante ever came back from plot erasure?
The question is, does Dante ever came back from plot erasure?
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No he hasn't
Noneless21
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then he pretty much get negged by her plot erasure, which also consist of CM type 1 erasure, and since the verse also has historical erasure via causality manip i think it was safe to say that she also delete him at the historical level too but I could be wrong
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- Thread starter
- #5
He never fought that ability (Plot) in the first place, we can't assume he can resist
However I heard something about her being 8D ? Dante's soul is 9D and he can regen from it, if that's the case, he would come back
However I heard something about her being 8D ? Dante's soul is 9D and he can regen from it, if that's the case, he would come back
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DMC guys have never shown feats of interacting with Shiro's nature (the plot itself) I might add
She's possibly 9D and we take that in this case
She's possibly 9D and we take that in this case
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DMC literally lmao, fights in DMC in a nutshell
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Though again I'm personally ok with them being able to come back from epilogue since dmc souls are abstract enough (more fundamental than T1 concepts) IMO
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- Thread starter
- #9
As far as I know, NPI is via feats. Someone who only interacted with Plot can't interact with Beyond Type 1 concepts and vice versa
That happens because measuring "what is more abstract than the other" is rather arbitrary
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The plot in this case also includes type 1 concept as noneless has mentioned (and me also in the strongest thread).
I in fact leaning towards agreeing to this solution where none has shown feats of interacting with the specific types of abstraction the other possesses
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souls are superior to regular type 1s. so that really doesnt mean much. and even if plot manip could get to him he still got has his Regen
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- Thread starter
- #12
Plot Manipulation isn't just for erase someone, depending on its use, it will incapacitate Dante in some way
But I'm no expert on Shallow's verse
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Just saying, and I already said I'm more into the conclusion where both can't affect the other given they haven't shown feats capable of interacting with said types of abstraction
I'm pretty sure the story by itself would by no means just equal to some thoughts or stuff, we don't give plot manipulation for ppl with perception/mind manip etc.
Concepts type 1 tho may arguably not be a part of the plot by default, but as we have already illustrated how they are still just components participating in the story/plot in Isekai at peace
It can also be used as power modification or sealing stuff iirc, she did that with Nebula, a character who... hasn't had a profile yet
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Shiro's plot manipulation doesn't just kill a person or thing, her power is more strictly the power to end a phenomenon, it can end literally everything in verse, so it can not only end the plot for example, it can also end an aspect of a person or thing, such as their memories, minds, souls, power etc.
So it can be used as an incap method, that's assuming both characters can even interact with each other though.
So it can be used as an incap method, that's assuming both characters can even interact with each other though.
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I don't see her directly interacting with Dante's 9D soul, but I don't see Dante interacting with her plot stuff either.
It ending an aspect isn't enough, because Souls contain memories, minds, Name's, concepts, power, etc.
Basically it's a lot of stuff that's also 9D as the Soul contains it.
I could definitely see Shiro using her power in an inconventional way to still end Dante, tho, like say ending his story. Not technically killing him, so to speak, but ending his "Presence in the narrative," as plot based BFR Dante can't come back from as he's never No-you'd plot. (Meaning his resistances to traditional BFR wouldn't really apply as it's not removal from the battlefield so much as removal from the "plot" of the fight itself.)
At worst? Incon unless Shiro has another hax that sweeps Dante.
It ending an aspect isn't enough, because Souls contain memories, minds, Name's, concepts, power, etc.
Basically it's a lot of stuff that's also 9D as the Soul contains it.
I could definitely see Shiro using her power in an inconventional way to still end Dante, tho, like say ending his story. Not technically killing him, so to speak, but ending his "Presence in the narrative," as plot based BFR Dante can't come back from as he's never No-you'd plot. (Meaning his resistances to traditional BFR wouldn't really apply as it's not removal from the battlefield so much as removal from the "plot" of the fight itself.)
At worst? Incon unless Shiro has another hax that sweeps Dante.
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At worse there is still The Last Story, Shiro can't die unless all other stories are ended, not even The Epilogue can kill her, she is the end of all stories, and at the same time, the final story.
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Just to clear out dmc souls and shiro plot hax is at the same dimensionality here so keep mentioning dante’s soul being 9D is futile
Technically these aren’t problems to the Epilogue at all, all of those aspects have been presented in At peace too and ending them all at once them at a narrative level shouldn’t be an issue
But again both AE are more than type 1 concepts and I am of the same mind that at this point debating which one being more abstract can get very controversial
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bruh so you guy actually did this :v
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It is pretty iconic IMO how DmC and At peace used to be filled mostly with 2Cs peeps then both gained CM1 and tiering revision stuff and now having a rematch
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well if dmc don't have that china game,thing aren't gonna happen lmao
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- Thread starter
- #21
DMC Wank is purely based on China 
Noneless21
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It's funnier when you remember Isekai at peace's tier 1s is already established waaaay before the final main story arc, we just skipped the details from the WN
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i mean mostly china man are wankDMC Wank is purely based on China
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Well the WN did help that statement from Ln to be taken in a more literal sense, but yeh most stuff has already been established in the former
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Chinaman to the moooon
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Was it not established earlier she’s only 8D?
And yeah, “more abstract” is a controversial topic to deal with, I agree.
Noneless21
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She's 8D possibly 9D
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Ahhhh.
So she can potentially affect his soul, but it’s not for certain?
Interesting.
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We are allowed to take keys with ''possibly'' or ''likely'' ratings as solid when doing these kinds of matches
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memories mind and power are all in the soul in this case. which is an abstract 9D type 1 concept. they also are covered by high godly too so that incaping him in those regards are not feasible
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Imma throw my 2 cents and ask what's stopping Dante from just adapting and evolving to deal with this?
It's not like the plot stuff is higher dimensional as it is just 9D and Dante or rather Tony has already evolved to adapt to the Demon world shit in the past several times.
It's not like the plot stuff is higher dimensional as it is just 9D and Dante or rather Tony has already evolved to adapt to the Demon world shit in the past several times.
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- Thread starter
- #32
You mean...Adapt against Plot Manipulation ? 
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i mean. why wouldn't he be able to? he was able to adapt to stuff he hasn't seen or dealt with before. the DWE is the first thing that comes to mind
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That's what reactive evolution does, it gives you resistances/new powah in response to shit.You mean...Adapt against Plot Manipulation ?
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well he can adapt the reality warpning,time manip,concept manip and a bunch of thing so yeah why not :vYou mean...Adapt against Plot Manipulation ?
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- Thread starter
- #36
Oh lol you guys, asking me as if it's me who has the burden of proof
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But... no one asked you :v
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- Thread starter
- #38
DON'T PLAY THE INNOCENT WITH ME, EVIL BEING
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this remind me that when dante still high 3-A,he lost to someone that have plot manip :v
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