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I don't really know if this is an actual feat but this topic was on my mind for a bit but I wasn't sure if it was worth discussing, since I don't know if it qualifies but I'd like to see what others think before dismissing it. So, let's discuss the possibility of Immeasurable Speed Danny Phantom.
Immeasurable Speed
Before we start, here is the description for Immeasurable Speed from our Speed page.
"Immeasurable (Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below)"
Now I'll add the important information referenced regarding this speed on that page below.
"Immeasurable speed characters are far beyond even those Infinite speed characters listed above. They perceive infinite speed characters as completely frozen, and they can travel forward and backward in time at will. They have the speed necessary to hop from the beginning of time, to the end of time, and anywhere in between as casually as a human being can roll their eyes left or right. This also means their reaction time is faster than instantaneous. They can dodge an attack that already has been struck, and they can strike someone even before they launched an attack. And they can do all of this via sheer speed."
Finally, it also mentions how we are strict about these types of ratings.
"When evaluating speed feats resulting in infinite speed a high amount of scrutiny should be applied. Speed feats of this nature frequently turn out to be Outliers and statements regarding infinity are prone to be Hyperbole. One should consider whether it is more plausible and consistent to assume that the abilities creating infinite distance or zero time were resisted, circumvented or nullified instead, or if Teleportation or similar were employed. Filling or lightning up infinite-sized realms must require substantial amounts of evidence. But if the intent for the infinite-sized realm is clear and repeatedly hammered in multiple times, then there's no reason to assume otherwise and it should be acceptable."
With all that understood, we'll discuss the feat now.
The Potential Feat
When Danny and Vlad attack Clockwork Phantom one final time, the impact causes a massive explosion, we then see to them tearing through various different timestreams/timelines with movement as we see in the second panel that the beam is them flying flying fast.
We know from the series that you can't do this as the doors lead you into the realm, there is no punching through the back of the space like the trio are shown doing in the novel. This means they are actually flying through the space-time not simply entering and exiting through a different doorway.
And yes, we accept these as timestreams/timelines in the verse cosmology blog. So this would grant the trio Immeasurable Speed for physically flying through timestreams/timelines.
Discussing the Feat
So here I'll be discussing potential topics like if it's an ability and not speed, if it's an outlier and such.
Movement or Ability?
So visually, it's portrayed as the trio flying, you can see that in the right panel, their hair is being pushed in the opposite direction they are flying, indicating movement.
I don't think this is an ability, Danny himself has no ability like this, Vlad only has teleportation which looks like this, Dark Danny would have Vlad's ability to teleport and has displayed portal creation but that's clearly not what was done given what we say. Finally, Clockwork uses portals like Dark Danny, and his time travel looks like this. So we know it's not a power any of them possess, but what about Clockwork Phantom's Time Glitches?
We know that Clockwork Phantom's glitches in time can randomly send people through time but no movement is involved, it's just a quick flash. So we can rule that out. The last thing one could suggest is since Clockwork Phantom's presence is causing reality to be unstable including when he's struck, one can assume that that's what caused them to break through time. However this wouldn't explain the feat in its entirety, just the initial explosion, given we've seen other moments after he's struck and it just altered the landscape. Plus, we previously see Dar Danny destroy Clockwork's staff which like Clockwork Phantom, was apart of the timeline. It visually causes an explosion, however no one present began flying through timelines uncontrollably, so it's clear it's not through Clockwork Phantom's glitches or nature that allowed them to fly through the timestreams like that even if the initial explosion was a glitch.
So overall, regardless of the glitches, they still would be physically flying through timestreams as that's not what time glitches allow you to do. However, it's only visually shown their moving through it, they are not stated to be doing it through sheer speed so that's why I'm not sure if it's a legitimate feat speed wise.
Edit: Below are DarkDragonMedus comments on it being Dimensional Travel...
"It could if they're traveling forward and backward in time at will, but traveling to other "Timestreams" is just dimensional travel. I don't quite fully understand the context of the statements and if I see something, I could maybe support Immeasurable. But statements like that I typically view as dimensional travel."
"It's more like 4-D Spaceflight is the general assumption to fly to other timelines. If they're breaking spacio-temporal barriers to travel to other timelines, that's still widely considered a space-time distortion ability. A lot of Immeasurable speed Superman upgrade attempts were rejected for similar reasons is note worthy example for feats like that. But it should still be good dimensional travel yes."
Is it an Outlier?
Finally, I'll bring up my thoughts on if it's an outlier or not if accepted as a legitimate speed feat.
To start, no one other than these three scale. This was done at their strongest as Dark Danny had overshadowed Clockwork, and Danny along with Vlad both gained a new emotional drive that buffed them to Clockwork Phantom's level. They are currently the most powerful beings in the Danny Phantom universe and no one scales to their full power.
I'll go over the points on our Outlier page regarding if something is an outlier.
"1) Is it a big jump or drop in power? If a character with several city destruction feats is shown to be able to destroy a mountain, we cannot necessarily consider it as an outlier, for the reason that the jump between tiers is not extreme enough to be so, despite the jump between energy values we attribute to them. If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point."
Well, these three basically got a massive power boost so yeah, it's a big jump but they aren't the same as their past selves so we can't really use their lesser states as counter argument. It even mentions that if the characters have very few feats, this point can likely be ignored.
"2) Is it a unique or exceptional incident? If incidents of a similar level are repeated consistently over time, they are unlikely to be outliers. Usually, from the third incident onwards. If the character has very few feats, we can also likely skip this point."
Well it's technically done by three people, who are at the top. They only appear at this level in the novel so it's not like we have any new material to see if they do more like this. Like the previous point, this would be their only noticeable speed feat if accepted so we don't have much to compare it to.
"3) Is the event unexplained and unjustified? If an extreme incident is not accompanied by any kind of explanation that justifies it, it is probably an outlier. But if it can be explained by means of some power-up, vulnerability, or limiter, it is likely not. If Superman is wounded by a bullet, it's probably an outlier. But if Superman was under the influence of red sunlight or was previously weakened with Kryptonite, it is not."
As I mentioned previously, this is a feat done by the trio after they all received massive buffs in the novel, so it would explain the massive speed up.
"4) Does the event break the previously established power-scaling? Here we must take into account a number of factors, such as comparable characters possessing feats or statements of a similar level to the hypothetical outlier, the outlier not being supported by fights that might suggest a similar level, or subsequent events or statements that contradict it in some way."
Literally only scales to the three people that performed the feat, who are the strongest and no one else scales in this regard. So it doesn't break previously established power-scaling.
"5) Does the event break with the narrative of the work? Many times an outlier breaks with what has been previously established or shown in a work, creating inconsistencies that are difficult to resolve unless we invalidate one of the two events. If, for example, a character claims not to be able to dodge bullets, even though he was previously seen dodging them explicitly, we are faced with a contradiction where we will probably have to resort to using the more reliable evidence."
The novel introduces use to multiple high level stuff in the series (mainly 2-A) and the entire plot is about them trying to stop the end of the reality. This event doesn't break the narrative of the book, and it doesn't break the narrative of the original series because no one there would scale to this.
Overall, this wouldn't be an outlier by our standards. No one else scales and it was done by the strongest characters. Now one could argue that if Clockwork Phantom was this fast, why didn't he blitz everyone else before he fights Danny and Vlad. It's pretty simple, he saw them as no threat to himself, he literally walked through Amity Park looking for Danny, showing he's not in a rush, and when approached by ghost hunters, he ignored them until they attacked him then he sweep them aside casually. Plus he's in a constant battle with Clockwork over his body to keep him in line so he's not always at his peak, and finally, he was not trying to wipe everyone out initially.
With that, I believe it's now time to see what the community thinks. Also, if a scan doesn't work, let me know, I'll fix it.
Agree (It's Speed): 2 (Apex_Predator_GX, Tony_di_bugalu,
Agree (It's Dimensional Travel): 6 (DarkDragonMedeus, Apex_Predator_GX, Hellformer, LuffyRuffy46307, DimeUhDozen, Planck69,
Neutral:
Immeasurable Speed
Before we start, here is the description for Immeasurable Speed from our Speed page.
"Immeasurable (Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below)"
Now I'll add the important information referenced regarding this speed on that page below.
"Immeasurable speed characters are far beyond even those Infinite speed characters listed above. They perceive infinite speed characters as completely frozen, and they can travel forward and backward in time at will. They have the speed necessary to hop from the beginning of time, to the end of time, and anywhere in between as casually as a human being can roll their eyes left or right. This also means their reaction time is faster than instantaneous. They can dodge an attack that already has been struck, and they can strike someone even before they launched an attack. And they can do all of this via sheer speed."
Finally, it also mentions how we are strict about these types of ratings.
"When evaluating speed feats resulting in infinite speed a high amount of scrutiny should be applied. Speed feats of this nature frequently turn out to be Outliers and statements regarding infinity are prone to be Hyperbole. One should consider whether it is more plausible and consistent to assume that the abilities creating infinite distance or zero time were resisted, circumvented or nullified instead, or if Teleportation or similar were employed. Filling or lightning up infinite-sized realms must require substantial amounts of evidence. But if the intent for the infinite-sized realm is clear and repeatedly hammered in multiple times, then there's no reason to assume otherwise and it should be acceptable."
With all that understood, we'll discuss the feat now.
The Potential Feat
When Danny and Vlad attack Clockwork Phantom one final time, the impact causes a massive explosion, we then see to them tearing through various different timestreams/timelines with movement as we see in the second panel that the beam is them flying flying fast.
We know from the series that you can't do this as the doors lead you into the realm, there is no punching through the back of the space like the trio are shown doing in the novel. This means they are actually flying through the space-time not simply entering and exiting through a different doorway.
And yes, we accept these as timestreams/timelines in the verse cosmology blog. So this would grant the trio Immeasurable Speed for physically flying through timestreams/timelines.
Discussing the Feat
So here I'll be discussing potential topics like if it's an ability and not speed, if it's an outlier and such.
Movement or Ability?
So visually, it's portrayed as the trio flying, you can see that in the right panel, their hair is being pushed in the opposite direction they are flying, indicating movement.
I don't think this is an ability, Danny himself has no ability like this, Vlad only has teleportation which looks like this, Dark Danny would have Vlad's ability to teleport and has displayed portal creation but that's clearly not what was done given what we say. Finally, Clockwork uses portals like Dark Danny, and his time travel looks like this. So we know it's not a power any of them possess, but what about Clockwork Phantom's Time Glitches?
We know that Clockwork Phantom's glitches in time can randomly send people through time but no movement is involved, it's just a quick flash. So we can rule that out. The last thing one could suggest is since Clockwork Phantom's presence is causing reality to be unstable including when he's struck, one can assume that that's what caused them to break through time. However this wouldn't explain the feat in its entirety, just the initial explosion, given we've seen other moments after he's struck and it just altered the landscape. Plus, we previously see Dar Danny destroy Clockwork's staff which like Clockwork Phantom, was apart of the timeline. It visually causes an explosion, however no one present began flying through timelines uncontrollably, so it's clear it's not through Clockwork Phantom's glitches or nature that allowed them to fly through the timestreams like that even if the initial explosion was a glitch.
So overall, regardless of the glitches, they still would be physically flying through timestreams as that's not what time glitches allow you to do. However, it's only visually shown their moving through it, they are not stated to be doing it through sheer speed so that's why I'm not sure if it's a legitimate feat speed wise.
Edit: Below are DarkDragonMedus comments on it being Dimensional Travel...
"It could if they're traveling forward and backward in time at will, but traveling to other "Timestreams" is just dimensional travel. I don't quite fully understand the context of the statements and if I see something, I could maybe support Immeasurable. But statements like that I typically view as dimensional travel."
"It's more like 4-D Spaceflight is the general assumption to fly to other timelines. If they're breaking spacio-temporal barriers to travel to other timelines, that's still widely considered a space-time distortion ability. A lot of Immeasurable speed Superman upgrade attempts were rejected for similar reasons is note worthy example for feats like that. But it should still be good dimensional travel yes."
Is it an Outlier?
Finally, I'll bring up my thoughts on if it's an outlier or not if accepted as a legitimate speed feat.
To start, no one other than these three scale. This was done at their strongest as Dark Danny had overshadowed Clockwork, and Danny along with Vlad both gained a new emotional drive that buffed them to Clockwork Phantom's level. They are currently the most powerful beings in the Danny Phantom universe and no one scales to their full power.
I'll go over the points on our Outlier page regarding if something is an outlier.
"1) Is it a big jump or drop in power? If a character with several city destruction feats is shown to be able to destroy a mountain, we cannot necessarily consider it as an outlier, for the reason that the jump between tiers is not extreme enough to be so, despite the jump between energy values we attribute to them. If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point."
Well, these three basically got a massive power boost so yeah, it's a big jump but they aren't the same as their past selves so we can't really use their lesser states as counter argument. It even mentions that if the characters have very few feats, this point can likely be ignored.
"2) Is it a unique or exceptional incident? If incidents of a similar level are repeated consistently over time, they are unlikely to be outliers. Usually, from the third incident onwards. If the character has very few feats, we can also likely skip this point."
Well it's technically done by three people, who are at the top. They only appear at this level in the novel so it's not like we have any new material to see if they do more like this. Like the previous point, this would be their only noticeable speed feat if accepted so we don't have much to compare it to.
"3) Is the event unexplained and unjustified? If an extreme incident is not accompanied by any kind of explanation that justifies it, it is probably an outlier. But if it can be explained by means of some power-up, vulnerability, or limiter, it is likely not. If Superman is wounded by a bullet, it's probably an outlier. But if Superman was under the influence of red sunlight or was previously weakened with Kryptonite, it is not."
As I mentioned previously, this is a feat done by the trio after they all received massive buffs in the novel, so it would explain the massive speed up.
"4) Does the event break the previously established power-scaling? Here we must take into account a number of factors, such as comparable characters possessing feats or statements of a similar level to the hypothetical outlier, the outlier not being supported by fights that might suggest a similar level, or subsequent events or statements that contradict it in some way."
Literally only scales to the three people that performed the feat, who are the strongest and no one else scales in this regard. So it doesn't break previously established power-scaling.
"5) Does the event break with the narrative of the work? Many times an outlier breaks with what has been previously established or shown in a work, creating inconsistencies that are difficult to resolve unless we invalidate one of the two events. If, for example, a character claims not to be able to dodge bullets, even though he was previously seen dodging them explicitly, we are faced with a contradiction where we will probably have to resort to using the more reliable evidence."
The novel introduces use to multiple high level stuff in the series (mainly 2-A) and the entire plot is about them trying to stop the end of the reality. This event doesn't break the narrative of the book, and it doesn't break the narrative of the original series because no one there would scale to this.
Overall, this wouldn't be an outlier by our standards. No one else scales and it was done by the strongest characters. Now one could argue that if Clockwork Phantom was this fast, why didn't he blitz everyone else before he fights Danny and Vlad. It's pretty simple, he saw them as no threat to himself, he literally walked through Amity Park looking for Danny, showing he's not in a rush, and when approached by ghost hunters, he ignored them until they attacked him then he sweep them aside casually. Plus he's in a constant battle with Clockwork over his body to keep him in line so he's not always at his peak, and finally, he was not trying to wipe everyone out initially.
With that, I believe it's now time to see what the community thinks. Also, if a scan doesn't work, let me know, I'll fix it.
Agree (It's Speed): 2 (Apex_Predator_GX, Tony_di_bugalu,
Agree (It's Dimensional Travel): 6 (DarkDragonMedeus, Apex_Predator_GX, Hellformer, LuffyRuffy46307, DimeUhDozen, Planck69,
Neutral:
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