Dan Koto upgrades (naruto)

[Stryker861]

Durability negation via soul manipulation- stated to collapse the opponents soul when entering the body leading to death, flight, Immaterial intangibility- physical attacks can't interact with his jutsu because he is a soul that lacks substance, Astral Projection- just like the ability description dan is separating his soul from his body, soul manipulation-pretty obvious.
Tobirama would get these as well as he created the jutsu
Edit: Madaras Rel calc is unusable so ignore the stuff below

Dan should also get “at least Relativistic” due to reaching Tsunade before madara could kill her from far away via ghost transformation jutsu.
Supporting evidence for this is that it also states that the jutsu can easily reach the opponent no matter the distance between the two were originally.

In short Dan is a ******* god

Agree: Kingogkings777, Godernet, YoutubeForKing, ssgengar, suigetsuhygus, testarossa002, LephyrTheRevanchist, LordGriffin

Nuetral: NaruRiasUzimaki

Disagree:

 

[KingogKings777]

Disagree, people just can't see souls.

 

[Stryker861]

Disagree, people just can't see souls.

what. Choza definily wasent havenig a conversation with dan

 

[KingogKings777]

what. Choza definily wasent havenig a conversation with dan

Choza was on substances. Madara, Ōnoki, and Ay didn't see him cause people can't see souls 99% of the time. The 1% is Kishi not caring about continuity and doing whatever he feels like.

 

[Stryker861]

Choza was on substances. Madara, Ōnoki, and Ay didn't see him cause people can't see souls 99% of the time. The 1% is Kishi not caring about continuity and doing whatever he feels like.

I dont see what that has to do with my crt but pop off
ik u trollin but ill count your vote regardless

 

[KingogKings777]

ik u trollin but ill count your vote regardless

The substances part yes, the other part no.

 

[Stryker861]

The substances part yes, the other part no.

what do u disagree with and for what reasons

 

[YoutubeForKing]

people can't see souls 99% of the time.

Confused on this part.
These aren't "people" these are ninja who trained for decades using spiritual energy and combining it with energy from their body
Also you tend to forget, souls in naruto do not exist under normal conditions.
Unless you can prove people not being able to see souls, and said people being trained ninja. I disagree

Madara, Ōnoki, and Ay

Madara was focused on attacking the kage.
Onoki and Ay were concered with madara, the strongest ninja they have ever witnessed, who's coming at them, bloodlusted... They will not be focued on dan who is only a jonin-high jonin tier fighter with one good hax ability.

Dan should also get “at least Relativistic” due to reaching Tsunade before madara could kill her from far away via ghost transformation jutsu.
Supporting evidence for this is that it also states that the jutsu can easily reach the opponent no matter the distance between the two were originally.

Only in travel speed, its stated he can get anywhere in the world using this jutsu.
Tbh it could be higher, the ability works regardless of distance and doesn't even need coordinates.
So At least Relativistic, possibly far higher.

I agree

 

[KingogKings777]

what do u disagree with and for what reasons

Durability negation via soul manipulation- stated to collapse the opponents soul when entering the body leading to death, flight, intangibility- physical attacks can't interact with his jutsu because he is a soul that lacks substance, Astral Projection- just like the ability description dan is separating his soul from his body, soul manipulation-pretty obvious.

Agree with this. Since you know the databook.

Dan should also get “at least Relativistic” due to reaching Tsunade before madara could kill her from far away via ghost transformation jutsu.
Supporting evidence for this is that it also states that the jutsu can easily reach the opponent no matter the distance between the two were originally.

Disagree with this.

 

[Stryker861]

So At least Relativistic, possibly far higher.

I agree

Yea im probably gonna change it tommrow to that but i wanted to make sure most people were on board with the premise first.

 

[KingogKings777]

Confused on this part.
These aren't "people" these are ninja who trained for decades using spiritual energy and combining it with energy from their body
Also you tend to forget, souls in naruto do not exist under normal conditions.
Unless you can prove people not being able to see souls, and said people being trained ninja. I disagree

Being able to use spiritual energy =/= being able to see souls.

Madara was focused on attacking the kage.
Onoki and Ay were concered with madara, the strongest ninja they have ever witnessed, who's coming at them, bloodlusted... They will not be focued on dan who is only a jonin-high jonin tier fighter with one good hax ability.

Good hax cause it turned him into a ghost, something they can't see.

 

[YoutubeForKing]

Being able to use spiritual energy =/= being able to see souls.

Never claimed that?
Stop red herring, my argument is they are already versed in spiritual subjects which is simply a supporting clause for them being able to see souls, which we can clearly see.

Good hax cause it turned him into a ghost, something they can't see.

Who say's they cant see ghost?
It seems to me your simply pushing headcannon onto people.
So far i have only seen scans showing them being capable of seeing spirits, until shown otherwise I do not want to hear your headcannon.

And its good hax because it makes him turn into an intangible spirit/ghost and a huge stat amp that allows him to reach anywhere no matter the distance. Meaning he'd reach speeds far supassing anyone in the verse and you can simply argue he blitzed them rather than them being incapable of seeing him.

If you want to goon that much then Madara has rinnegan which has literally been shown to see and interact with the soul, if he was invisible to madara then he'd have layered invisibility (Some souls in bleach have this due to being invisible to other spiritual sensing characters) rather than Madara not being able to see him because he's a spirit/ghost.

 

[KingogKings777]

Never claimed that?
Stop red herring, my argument is they are already versed in spiritual subjects which is simply a supporting clause for them being able to see souls, which we can clearly see.

There's nothing being supported cause they can't see souls as proven with Dan.

Who say's they cant see ghost?
It seems to me your simply pushing headcannon onto people.
So far i have only seen scans showing them being capable of seeing spirits, until shown otherwise I do not want to hear your headcannon.

Ignorance of evidence against your claim okay.

And its good hax because it makes him turn into an intangible spirit/ghost and a huge statistic amp that allows him to reach anywhere no matter the distance. Meaning he'd reach speeds far supassing anyone in the verse and you can simply argue he blitzed them rather than them being incapable of seeing him.

So you agree it's a spirit/ghost? Cool. And noone can see him as shown in the scans cause I wonder why. Probably cause they can't see souls.

If you want to goon that much then Madara has rinnegan which has literally been shown to see and interact with the soul, if he was invisible to madara then he'd have layered invisibility rather than Madara not being able to see him because he's a spirit/ghost.

It only allows you to see and interact with the soul when touching a person from what I recall. Since every time it required the user to physically touch the person to see the soul. You goonery is weak.

 

[YoutubeForKing]

Ignorance of evidence against your claim okay.

Not really a good debunk.
1. I can use the blitz argument.
After this statement would grant him speeds that no naruto characters would come even close to reacting to, especially going by wiki scaling and at this point in the story.
2. I can argue madara is capable of seeing souls and simply say dan has layered invisibility.
Sasuke can quite clearly see shinigami with 3 tomoe and madara should far surpass his prowess in visuals. This would match with the multiple statements of sharingan being able to see everything in the universe
Its stated you cannot see it due to it being an invisible death got shinigami.

So you agree it's a spirit/ghost? Cool. And noone can see him as shown in the scans cause I wonder why. Probably cause they can't see souls.

You do realize the textbook definition of a ghost is this right?
- an apparition of a dead person which is believed to appear or become manifest to the living, typically as a nebulous image.
So even the diction support them being able to see said things.

 

[YoutubeForKing]

There's nothing being supported cause they can't see souls as proven with Dan.

Dan simply isn't a good debunk, considering ninja without visual prowess (hell one even had his eyes closed) could track and even have conversations with Dan in spirit form

Ignorance of evidence against your claim okay.

Can be argued as something other than them not being able to see souls making it an irrelevant contradiction.
There are more instances of them being able to see souls, then not being able to see souls.

The only confirmed instance is the shinigami, which isn't a normal soul but a literal death god.
Via his statements you can just argue him also having layered invisibility or soul based invisibility on top of just regular invisibility hax depending on how this site's invisibility rules work.

It only allows you to see and interact with the soul when touching a person from what I recall. Since every time it required the user to physically touch the person to see the soul. You goonery is weak.

Not really goonery.
Both naruto, and seemingly bee could see the soul as it was being pulled out, both of them not having any occular prowess.

Theres enough evidence to argue soul sight, and even multi layered soul sight/invisibility in the verse, regardless of if we do so for every trained shinobi or only those with occular prowess and jinjurichi

 

[YoutubeForKing]

Look on this site and go to word search. (Command f on mac, i don't know what it would be on other devices you can search it up on google or scroll through everything.) This site is > vsWiki for information imo
Read all the sections containing the key words, soul and spirit

 

[ssgengar]

Iirc the relativistic calc got dropped and madara’s profile just hasn’t been updated yet. Unless I’m wrong on that then ima have to disagree with that part, agree with the rest though

 

[Godernet]

I agree with the abilities being added. I would drop the speed portion, for now, tbh since War Arc speed ratings are in complete shambles rn don't worry we'll get there eventually

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

The first part is pretty obvious the speed part well the scans arent even working for me

 

[Godernet]

Ignorance of evidence against your claim okay.

Choza talking to Dan isn't the only thing that disproves this you know. Sasuke watched Itachi's soul ascend, and Naruto watches Minato's soul ascend, if I really went digging I could probably find several more instances of Shinobi watching the Edo's ascend.

This paints the example you're providing as more outlierish since it's several examples vs the one instance.

Besides it honestly seems more likely that Dan's jutsu was just faster than the Kage and Madara could perceive in that moment since Dan cleared the distance between Choza and them and saves Tsunade before Madara's attack could even land and before any of the Kage(including Mr. Fastest Shinobi Ay) could reach her.

Them not reacting to Dan does not automatically mean they can't see souls that's a stretch.

Besides this wouldn't be the first instance in Naruto where someone has gotten in front of an attack and no one noticed until much later(for example: Kakashi tries to Raikiri Zabuza but gets blitzed by Haku twice with no one else around even perceiving it happening until after it happened.)

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Even Naruto could see and touch his own soul against Nagato

 

[Stryker861]

op has been updated

 

[KingogKings777]

op has been updated

Update the intangibility to Immaterial intangibility since it would fall under that imo.

Immaterial: This type of intangibility allows the user to phase through most attacks due to not being made up of a physical substance, such as ghosts or characters who merely exist as a disembodied soul. It also includes characters that are made up of things like energy. Of course, this intangibility type still has its own weaknesses - a soul is vulnerable to soul manipulation, for example.

 

[Stryker861]

Update the intangibility to Immaterial intangibility since it would fall under that imo.

will do

 

[Trihexa102]

Look on this site and go to word search. (Command f on mac, i don't know what it would be on other devices you can search it up on google or scroll through everything.) This site is > vsWiki for information imo
Read all the sections containing the key words, soul and spirit

Bruh that site is a Gold mine, I didn't even know Second Hokage created the Jutsu, and it also says "Though they are immune to physical attacks, the same does not apply to chakra-based attacks which are part spiritual energy. Their soul-body disperses if struck by an offensive technique and forces them to use their chakra to restore themselves so if it occurs too many times then the caster would die''.

 

[KingogKings777]

Iirc the relativistic calc got dropped and madara’s profile just hasn’t been updated yet. Unless I’m wrong on that then ima have to disagree with that part, agree with the rest though

I vote we delete narutoverse then.

 

[Trihexa102]

I vote we delete narutoverse then.

Nah gonna rework most of the outdated and inaccurate stuff eventually. preparing for shibai appearance

 

[Stryker861]

ima have this stuff added to tobirama too as he created the jutsu

 

[Stryker861]

Bump

 

[Testarossa002]

Agree fra

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

disagree because I want to downplay

Nah, but this seems reasonable.

 

[Stryker861]

bump

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Durability negation via soul manipulation- stated to collapse the opponents soul when entering the body leading to death, flight, Immaterial intangibility- physical attacks can't interact with his jutsu because he is a soul that lacks substance, Astral Projection- just like the ability description dan is separating his soul from his body, soul manipulation-pretty obvious.

This is fine.

Tobirama would get these as well as he created the jutsu

The scan doesn't say that... it's just Tobirama saying if only he could "save his soul with his forbidden jutsu"... how does that translate to him having the same technique as Dan's... unless you have more evidence, this isn't logical.

 

[Trihexa102]

This is fine.

The scan doesn't say that... it's just Tobirama saying if only he could "save his soul with his forbidden jutsu"... how does that translate to him having the same technique as Dan's... unless you have more evidence, this isn't logical.

From what I can tell it seems Tobirama created the technique, like flying raijin and edo tensei.

 

[NaruRiasUzumaki]

Neutral.

 

[Stryker861]

The scan doesn't say that... it's just Tobirama saying if only he could "save his soul with his forbidden jutsu"... how does that translate to him having the same technique as Dan's... unless you have more evidence, this isn't logical.

I came to that conclusion because sasuke had just been stabbed and on the verge of death and we know that the justu can revilatize people as stated by madara when dan took control of tsunades body, which is seemingly what tobiramas goal was. If this is too vague tho i can scratch it out.

 

[Stryker861]

We wait 48 hours now correct?

 

[Arkenis]

Durability negation via soul manipulation- stated to collapse the opponents soul when entering the body leading to death, flight, Immaterial intangibility- physical attacks can't interact with his jutsu because he is a soul that lacks substance, Astral Projection- just like the ability description dan is separating his soul from his body, soul manipulation-pretty obvious.

The databook only list Dan as a user so whats the justification for Tobirama having it too?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

From what I can tell it seems Tobirama created the technique, like flying raijin and edo tensei.

You'd need a concrete statement for that.

I came to that conclusion because sasuke had just been stabbed and on the verge of death and we know that the justu can revilatize people as stated by madara when dan took control of tsunades body, which is seemingly what tobiramas goal was. If this is too vague tho i can scratch it out.

I still think it's vague to assume it's that technique he's specifically refering to so I'd scratch it out.

 

[Arkenis]

Pretty sure tobiramas just talking about using edo.