D&D scaling update #99957

[Qawsedf234]

So this is about our 6-C scaling which comes from Elemental Princes such as Imix. The issue is as follows more or less

• In 3e and in 4e all of the Elemental Princes are rated massively higher than they in 5e. In 3e for example Imix's avatar is a CR 17, which is what 5e Imix is rated at in his true form
• There's some profiles from earlier editions that use 5e scaling, which could overinflate their results beyond what they should be.

So here's my proposal for a change

• 3e: If the monster only appears in this addition or last appears in this edition use the given CR for the Princes. Which would range from CR 21-24
• 4e: If the monster only appears in this addition or last appears in this edition use the given CR for the Princes. Which would range from CR 32-34
• 5e: If the monster only appears in this addition we use the CR for the Princes, but, if the monster was previously lower but now higher we give them a likely or possibly 6-C rating

So as an example

• From 2e to 4e Balor and Pit Fiends are lower than every single elemental prince by at least a CR rating of 1, it is only in 5e that they are rated higher. As such their current possibly rating would become a likely one, since it is theoretically possible for the 4e to 5e change to have amped them in some capacity

Now we get into that weird zone that is classic D&D. Where CR wasn't a thing as much as XP values. So to quote Wizard this is the official scaling chart from 2e to 3e

Organization, Challenge Level, and Treasure: Find two or three similar creatures in the MM and assign the creature a similar organization, challenge level, and treasure.

Dungeons & Dragons: Conversion Manual page 22

So in 2e the weakest Elemental Prince was Imix, with an XP value of 25,000. As such here's some comparison creatures that had a similar value in 2e with their 3e CRs

• Great Wyrm Red Dragon: 24,000 (CR 38)
• Great Wyrm Gold Dragon: 25,000 (CR 41)
• Balor: 26,000 (CR 20)
• Pit Fiend: 21,000 (CR 20)
• Ultroloth: 26,000 (CR 13)
• Hive Mother: 24,000 (CR 16)

Now, this doesn't really help us out to much since, well, they vary so hard. Honestly the best bet I'd say is just use the 3.5e numbers if there's an important, since that seems pretty close to the medium of the character. So someone like Naergoth who was a level 22 character in 2e would also gain a "likely" rating for 6-C, even if his 3e version is lower.

Opinions on the suggestion?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Me and Qaw discussed this at length elsewhere, I am in agreement with this. I'd like to note that Vargo Kent needs to be updated to have an AP equal to Naergoth as well.

A list should be compiled of characters changed by this.

 

[Dragonstitch]

this looks good to me.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Seems fine to me

 

[Antvasima]

This seems fine to me as well.

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think @Elizhaa @Antoniofer and @Udlmaster ?

 

[Elizhaa]

The changes seem fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. They can probably be applied then.