Cyrus vs Alien x

[Everything12]

True forms are combat applicable and can't be restricted, however, they don't matter in this fight. Both of them should have Existence Erasure resistance from being unaffected by each other's attacks that were erasing the city in the Darkrai movie. The avatars Mind Hax resistance scale to the 2-A × 60 Million × 2 of the Lake Trio; as it required three of their powers to work even with avatars.

 

[Asriel77]

i clarified the EE resistance via the movie however i should have went more indepth.
and thank you for the clarification on the true forms restriction notion.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Both of them should have Existence Erasure resistance from being unaffected by each other's attacks that were erasing the city in the Darkrai movie. The avatars Mind Hax resistance scale to the 2-A × 60 Million × 2 of the Lake Trio; as it required three of their powers to work even with avatars.

The Problem is Alien x mind haxing Cyrus before he use the Pokeballs

 

[Asriel77]

The Problem is Alien x mind haxing Cyrus before he use the Pokeballs

id argue standard battle assumptions means he already has dialga and palkia ready for battle outside their pokeballs tbh

 

[Gohanblanco217]

id argue standard battle assumptions means he already has dialga and palkia ready for battle outside their pokeballs tbh

They are inside of the Pokeballs in this fight

 

[Everything12]

If your fight is between two Tier 2 keys, then the thing that makes them Tier 2 should be already battle-ready when the fight begins. Also, you do remember you gave Cyrus prep right?

 

[Asriel77]

They are inside of the Pokeballs in this fight

due to standard battle assumptions they would be outside their pokeballs ready to fight. so mind haxing cyrus or erasing cyrus is now alot harder then you asserted earlier because dialga and palkia can indeed defend their master

 

[Gohanblanco217]

due to standard battle assumptions they would be outside their pokeballs ready to fight. so mind haxing cyrus or erasing cyrus is now alot harder then you asserted earlier because dialga and palkia can indeed defend their master

So your vote goes for Cyrus I guess?

 

[Asriel77]

yes my vote goes to cyrus using double EE from both dragons as alien x doesnt show resistence to any EE despite using it

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Vote cyrus too.

 

[Greenshifter]

True forms are combat applicable and can't be restricted, however, they don't matter in this fight. Both of them should have Existence Erasure resistance from being unaffected by each other's attacks that were erasing the city in the Darkrai movie. The avatars Mind Hax resistance scale to the 2-A × 60 Million × 2 of the Lake Trio; as it required three of their powers to work even with avatars.

I mean CRT for EE resistance? Like I don’t mind but I remember this coming up before and it still isn’t CRT’d.

 

[Greenshifter]

Alien X thinks and Cyrus is gone, before Palkia and Dialga attack him, nor can they block something like that.

 

[Asriel77]

Alien X thinks and Cyrus is gone, before Palkia and Dialga attack him, nor can they block something like that.

elaborate on what that is and why it matters.

 

[Greenshifter]

Alien X’s EE is an instantaneous affect since Kevin stated “they’d blink and we’d be gone”, thus it can’t take longer than a blink for Cyrus to be erased and thus it’s an attack that doesn’t rely on distance and as such Palkia and Dialga can’t protect Cyrus from it.

 

[Greenshifter]

That is if Ben realizes that Cyrus is the one calling the shots, although he could just try and EE everyone on the battlefield at the same time, even if it fails on Palkia and Dialga he’d still have won.

 

[Asriel77]

speed is equal, LOL.

 

[Asriel77]

That is if Ben realizes that Cyrus is the one calling the shots, although he could just try and EE everyone on the battlefield at the same time, even if it fails on Palkia and Dialga he’d still have won.

show me proof that alien xs EE has actual AOE

 

[Greenshifter]

speed is equal, LOL.

Thought-based/blink-based stuff is still faster than movement based stuff.

show me proof that alien xs EE has actual AOE

Servantis literally stated that Alien X could erase all of existence and there were multiple targets in the Rust Bucket when Kevin made his statement.

 

[Asriel77]

Thought-based/blink-based stuff is still faster than movement based stuff.

Servantis literally stated that Alien X could erase all of existence and there were multiple targets in the Rust Bucket when Kevin made his statement.

blink = speed based/action based not thought based.

ive only seen evidence on his profile that his mind hax is thought based.
i have yet to see his EE is thought based and you havent shown me scans so thats hitchens razor my guy and im discarding that argument.
his profile doesnt say anything about him being able to destroy existence either, his AP scales directly to other beings who can recreate existence through sheer reality warping that is "thought based" in short once again can you coherently tell me why thought based aboilities is an actual factor here.

 

[Everything12]

Palkia and Dialga can return things from Erasure, as they did to all the things they erased in the Darkrai movie, and as Cyrus has them in a Pokéball they aren't mind-controlled and can do so without Cyrus ordering them.

 

[Asriel77]

and again they will protect cyrus at all cost because he is their pokemon trainer, so-
even to the point they will get rid of his mind hax etc.
erasing cyrus? they can just regenerate him, LOL.

Stop the "he will attack cyrus first" this is troll logic.

 

[Asriel77]

also you must take into account that it will be difficult for alien x to handle 2 of them at once aswell.
and since dialga is literally equal to palkia it makes it much harder for him to handle him.

which is why i said earlier alien x simply gets double EE'd

 

[Greenshifter]

ive only seen evidence on his profile that his mind hax is thought based.

His mindhax isn’t thought based.

blink = speed based/action based not thought based.

A blink is still faster than an attack, even in speed equal relative speed differences are still a thing, ask Everything12 if you don’t believe me. Also I can argue thought-based but I don’t need to for now so I’ll stick to blink-based.

Palkia and Dialga can return things from Erasure, as they did to all the things they erased in the Darkrai movie, and as Cyrus has them in a Pokéball they aren't mind-controlled and can do so without Cyrus ordering them

Oh that could shake things up, however the Poké balls would be erased along with himself since they are on his body I assume. Thus they won’t be compelled anymore to follow his orders, especially after he’s dead. Unless you’re actually implying they care about Cyrus?

Stop the "he will attack cyrus first" this is troll logic.

He’ll attack everyone at the same time with EE.

 

[Asriel77]

His mindhax isn’t thought based.

A blink is still faster than an attack, even in speed equal relative speed differences are still a thing, ask Everything12 if you don’t believe me. Also I can argue thought-based but I don’t need to for now so I’ll stick to blink-based.

Oh that could shake things up, however the Poké balls would be erased along with himself since they are on his body I assume. Thus they won’t be compelled anymore to follow his orders, especially after he’s dead.

He’ll attack everyone at the same time with EE.

the creation trio all resist 2-A EE.
erasing cyrus wont matter because they can literally regenerate him or simply "rewind time"

you still havent shown me alien xs EE is aoe based so like i said your point on that is very invalid.
until i see scans or video evidence or confirmation on the ben 10 experts on this wiki im not taking that statement for granted


Edit to your creation trio listening to cyrus statment: in ultra sun and moon they actually do listen to him and he didnt enslave them, the pokeball key comes directly to when cyrus did catch them in generation 7 unlike when he enslaved and forced them against their will in gen 4. like i said earlier and this is ad nauseum at this point, he is their trainer, and they will do their best to battle for him and protect him LOL.

 

[Greenshifter]

erasing cyrus wont matter because they can literally regenerate him or simply "rewind time"

Why would they, the poké ball is what makes them obedient, with Cyrus and his poké balls gone they don’t need to listen to him anymore.

the creation trio all resist 2-A EE.

Not on their page, so l’m doing you a huge favor by accepting it.

confirmation on the ben 10 experts on this wiki im not taking that statement for granted

I’ll call him, there’s this one guy named Greenshifter that has been in every Ben 10 thread for the past year and a half and currently one of the only people who still care about debating Ben 10 on this site, gimme a sec.

 

[Asriel77]

"pokeballs make them obedient" this is a game mechanic but is false in lore.
in the show and manga and even in the lore a pokeball doesnt grant morality or mind manipulation on the pokemon what so ever. if thats the case explain ashes charizard, ashs ohsawott, gohs suicune, etc.
since when is it stated a pokeball makes pokemon obedient? that is headcanon you formed based off your ignorance.

it is not the pokeball that makes trainers and pokemon to be well in eachothers hands, it is the idea of having a bond or some form of friendship to begin with, or even a mutual relationship where one cares for another, SOMETHING.

 

[Greenshifter]

Well I assumed there was at least some sort of mind control involved to let Palkia and Dialga listen to him rather than them actually caring about him. If not then you might have a point, can they sense and undo mindhax as well?

 

[theultimate5105]

Even in the games Pokeballs do not make sufficiently powerful pokemon obidient

 

[Asriel77]

they may not be able to sense it however they can undo it and should be aware of when someone is influenced of doing it
they have telepathy on their profile so they can communiate to others via thoughts and see what they are thinking

 

[Greenshifter]

All right fair then. Voting Cyrus, Alien X could technically still win by punching them but it’s unlikely to happen.

But you guys really gotta CRT that EE resistance one time.

 

[Asriel77]

the haxs arent as bad as elder scrolls profiles which are missing alot of shit on those. my god.

however in elder scrolls verses threads we usually allow stuff that isnt on profiles for obvious reasons

 

[Gohanblanco217]

you still havent shown me alien xs EE is aoe based so like i said your point on that is very invalid.

Here's a quote about AX EE :

• Servantis: With that weapon on his wrist, he can turn into a Tokust'ar or perhaps even a Celestialsapien. This grimy child could one day just wish everything out of existence.

 

[ApeXeno]

Looking at these two arguments, I'll vote for Cyrus.

 

[ApeXeno]

Here's a quote about AX EE :

• Servantis: With that weapon on his wrist, he can turn into a Tokust'ar or perhaps even a Celestialsapien. This grimy child could one day just wish everything out of existence.

I'm like 90% sure there was an entire thread for downgrading Alien X stating that Servantis was an unreliable source due to being deceiving. His word shouldn't be that reliable.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

I'm like 90% sure there was an entire thread for downgrading Alien X stating that Servantis was an unreliable source due to being deceiving. His word shouldn't be that reliable.

90% of the thread was about downgrading AX to low 2-C as for the counter arguments about Servantis they simply got rejected (not accepted)

 

[ApeXeno]

Well in that case, still voting for Cyrus

 

[sanicspood]

cyrus fra

 

[Gohanblanco217]

2 more votes and it's grace

 

[Greenshifter]

Just wondering can Alien X actually knock Palkia and Dialga out? Cause if not this might be a stomp.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Just wondering can Alien X actually knock Palkia and Dialga out? Cause if not this might be a stomp.

If they are only baseline Universal then he should however I don't see how this would be a stomp considering killing Cyrus is all what it requires for Alien x to win