CW flash upgrade

[Isaacbobanka]

I know this has been a discusion before but last time i didn't have time to finish my arguments.

flash has shown that he can somewhat contend with the forces:

Flash inflicts pain to the speed force and knocks her out of the speed force (timestamp 1:08)


And being capable of knocking out the negativ forces


Last time argument was that still force is omniscient and would know but he didn't know that Flash was coming just before and strength force was suprised of flash power in the same clip proving that they didn't know what was going on and that both isn't fully omniscient

 

[ByArrow]

I knew we had to make a discussion rule for that.

This was not the only counter-argument. And you really have no new arguments. This thread should be closed as this has been discussed and rejected before and it is the same arguments.

Cw flash big tier upgrade (speed force)

First of all, greetings to all of you As you all know, speed force is at the level of h1c in vsb. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Speed_Force_(CW) Barry both destroys this speed force and withstands the lightning of the speed force, wally confirms that Barry destroyed the speed force...

vsbattles.com

 

[Isaacbobanka]

I knew we had to make a discussion rule for that.

This was not the only counter-argument. And you really have no new arguments. This thread should be closed as this has been discussed and rejected before and it is the same arguments.

Cw flash big tier upgrade (speed force)

First of all, greetings to all of you As you all know, speed force is at the level of h1c in vsb. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/The_Speed_Force_(CW) Barry both destroys this speed force and withstands the lightning of the speed force, wally confirms that Barry destroyed the speed force...

vsbattles.com

Difference is that this argument show a video of him actually hurting the speed force which is a completly new argument

 

[ByArrow]

I will answer anyway

flash has shown that he can somewhat contend with the forces:

No he did not. On the contrary, he has shown that he is no match for them.

Flash inflicts pain to the speed force and knocks her out of the speed force (timestamp 1:08)

Flash didn't hurt Speed Force. After Speed Force was weakened by other forces almost equal to its own, Barry was able to send Speed Force flying a few meters. And even then, he couldn't knock her out or hurt her.

And later in the episode, Barry unable to stop a tornado created by the Cosmic Forces, which was nothing to them. Why couldn't Barry stop that tornado if they were on the same level? Why did he need the help of the Forces?

And the whole point of Season 7 was that they couldn't stop the forces. Even Team Flash said they can't stop them.

And being capable of knocking out the negativ forces

Flash didn't knock them out. Flash managed to throw them back only a few meters, and after this attack he was completely exhausted and still unable to harm the Forces. And because they needed Flash for their plan, they didn't hurt him. They could have killed Barry right then and there if they wanted to.

Last time argument was that still force is omniscient and would know but he didn't know that Flash was coming just before and strength force was suprised of flash power in the same clip proving that they didn't know what was going on and that both isn't fully omniscient

As I said before, it was not the only argument.

Difference is that this argument show a video of him actually hurting the speed force which is a completly new argument

This video was used in a previous thread so it is not new.

And Flash was helpless against them every time they met.

And Barry was helpless against Thawn, empowered by the Negative Forces, without the help of the forces.. If he was on the same level as the Forces, Barry would not have needed the Forces' help to defeat him. But he did because he is not on their level.

Also, There are tons of anti-feats that Barry and others have.

And to say that Flash is H1C is to say that the Kryptonians, Despero, Alegra, Cecille, XS, Bart, Fiddler, Hartley and more are H1C. Can you say these are H1C? You can't say that Flash is H1C and not say that they is not.

 

[Isaacbobanka]

I will answer anyway

No he did not. On the contrary, he has shown that he is no match for them.

Flash didn't hurt Speed Force. After Speed Force was weakened by other forces almost equal to its own, Barry was able to send Speed Force flying a few meters. And even then, he couldn't knock her out or hurt her.

And later in the episode, Barry unable to stop a tornado created by the Cosmic Forces, which was nothing to them. Why couldn't Barry stop that tornado if they were on the same level? Why did he need the help of the Forces?

And the whole point of Season 7 was that they couldn't stop the forces. Even Team Flash said they can't stop them.

Flash didn't knock them out. Flash managed to throw them back only a few meters, and after this attack he was completely exhausted and still unable to harm the Forces. And because they needed Flash for their plan, they didn't hurt him. They could have killed Barry right then and there if they wanted to.

As I said before, it was not the only argument.

This video was used in a previous thread so it is not new.

And Flash was helpless against them every time they met.

And Barry was helpless against Thawn, empowered by the Negative Forces, without the help of the forces.. If he was on the same level as the Forces, Barry would not have needed the Forces' help to defeat him. But he did because he is not on their level.

Also, There are tons of anti-feats that Barry and others have.

And to say that Flash is H1C is to say that the Kryptonians, Despero, Alegra, Cecille, XS, Bart, Fiddler, Hartley and more are H1C. Can you say these are H1C? You can't say that Flash is H1C and not say that they is not.

nothing says that the speed force was weakend so no she littarly took the same damage from barrys attack then what she did from the others and was fine after the forces attacks

Barry unable to stop a tornado created by the Cosmic Forces, which was nothing to them. Why couldn't Barry stop that tornado if they were on the same level? Why did he need the help of the Forces?

because that tornado contained not just one of the forces power but all 4 of them and flash is not above 4 forces at the same time

Flash didn't knock them out. Flash managed to throw them back only a few meters, and after this attack he was completely exhausted and still unable to harm the Forces. And because they needed Flash for their plan, they didn't hurt him. They could have killed Barry right then and there if they wanted to.

Then explain them lying on the floor unconscious that for me looks like they got affected by his blast also deon being suprised about flash contradicts that he knew what was happening

And Barry was helpless against Thawn, empowered by the Negative Forces, without the help of the forces.. If he was on the same level as the Forces, Barry would not have needed the Forces' help to defeat him. But he did because he is not on their level.

yeah when he got the power of all 4 forces barry as i said could match atleat one of the forces not all of them at the same time

And to say that Flash is H1C is to say that the Kryptonians, Despero, Alegra, Cecille, XS, Bart, Fiddler, Hartley and more are H1C. Can you say these are H1C? You can't say that Flash is H1C and not say that they is not.
all of these characters would lose against flash (like despero did) so i don't understand how all of them would scale to barry when 90% of them are no match for peak flash in power

 

[ByArrow]

nothing says that the speed force was weakend so no she littarly took the same damage from barrys attack then what she did from the others and was fine after the forces attacks

If you get heavy attacks from 3 people with the same strength as you, you will get weaker and weaker. And Speed Force took no damage from Barry's attack. When Barry attacked after the attack of the forces, she flew back a few meters, that's all. She didn't take any damage. Also, how can Barry be Speed Force level when all of Barry's power comes from the little energy Speed Force gives him?

because that tornado contained not just one of the forces power but all 4 of them and flash is not above 4 forces at the same time

No, the tornado was not even at the level of the big bang, so infinitely weaker than a single force.

Then explain them lying on the floor unconscious that for me looks like they got affected by his blast also deon being suprised about flash contradicts that he knew what was happening

After a few seconds we can see that they are still standing, as nothing had happened.

yeah when he got the power of all 4 forces barry as i said could match atleat one of the forces not all of them at the same time

Thawn didn't have the full power of the four forces. And yet Barry needed the help of the forces to defeat him.

all of these characters would lose against flash (like despero did) so i don't understand how all of them would scale to barry when 90% of them are no match for peak flash in power

Because all of these characters can hurt the Flash and withstand his attacks. So if Barry is H1C, they're H1C.

Flash vs Fuerza: Barry was helpless against a single force.
Even Team Flash thought that a single force was death itself. And they said it was unstoppable.

What was that thing anyway?

Death itself, maybe.

That means it's...

Unstoppable

The Flash 7x4

Flash vs Psych: Flash is again helpless against a force.
Barry was again helpless against Psych. And again he needed the help of another force.

If Barry is on the same level as a single force, why was he helpless against Fuerza?
If Barry is on the same level as a single force, why was he helpless against Psych?

Even Barry said he wasn't as strong as them.​

Barry: I mean, maybe I'm not strong enough to stop Bashir, but Fuerza is.​

The Flash 7x10

Cisco couldn't hurt Fuerza. Cisco is powerful enough to hurt Barry and the others.

Barry was again helpless against Psych. And again he needed the help of another force.

How can Barry be on the same level as Speed Force when his power comes from a little energy that Speed Force gives him?

Also Barry and others have tons of anti-feats.​