Current Base Gohan, Piccolo, Botamo, Frost and Watagash downgrade.

[Dark649]

I don't think they are Solar System level. Just because Base Gohan trained with Piccolo, who fought Frost, who fought a suppressed Goku, doesn't mean that is tied to him, also Watagash is a mess to scale.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Both were scratched, implying that Gohan managed to make some damage


Also, didn't SSJ Gohan one-shotted Tagoma, who survived a headbutt from SSJ Gotenks?


Pretty sure Base Gohan being Solar System is ok.


Also, why Piccolo has two keys for DBS? The time that passed between the tournament and RoF Arc is... Short.

 

[Dark649]

Gohan one-shotted Tagoma, who is only large star level only as a super saiyan. Piccolo has two keys because is pre-tournament training, where he was one shotted by Frieza and later post-tournament where he fought with Frost, the latter fought wiith Goku, but Vegeta (Who is comparable to Goku) one-shotted him.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Stills


The difference between RoF and U6 arcs is really small


And why is Tagoma only High 4-C? He should be 4-B

 

[Dark649]

Piccolo page is fine and don't need to be touched. Gohan was vastly weakened at the time, Gohan stated that Tagoma is comparable to his base form at the time. It seems that at the end of Goku Black arc Gohan got stronger with Piccolo, but i think he dropped again his power judging by his performance with Watagash.

 

[Ryukama]

Tagoma stomped Piccolo quite bad. I agree he should be 4-B.

Also this does not seem to indicate that the gap between Gohan and Piccolo is nearly as high as you say.

If Gohan was Large Star level he wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell against Piccolo, since he's scaled to much higher end 4-Bs. (Frost who somewhat scales to SSJ Goku, who's able to stomp SSJ3 Gotenks in base)

Plus nothing explicitly states or implies that Piccolo was drastically supressing himself against Gohan. Not going out maybe but not restraining by that much.

And how Gohan did against Watagash doesn't at all make him weaker. Watagash is a brand new character without previously established levels of power. It's like if a villain gets introduced and stomps Goku. But instead of upgrading the new villain we downgrade Goku.

 

[Dark649]

Ok. A last question is where do i place Watagash in the tier list?.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

In the same tier as Tagoma


And Tagoma, Ginyu (With his body) and First Form Fireza (If he wasn't upgraded yet) should be 4-B and MFTL now

 

[Dark649]

In the same tier as Tagoma. And Tagoma, Ginyu (With his body) and First Form Fireza (If he wasn't upgraded yet) should be 4-B and MFTL now

No, they are not 4-B and MFTL. Gohan and Piccolo stopped training after the Buu Saga, their power dropped and Gohan stated that he can't go mystic and got stomped by Tagoma, Gohan said that he is comparable to the full potential of his base form at the time (not the mystic form) and defeated him as a super saiyan. Piccolo likely trained for the tournament where he somewhat fought with Frost, and currently Gohan seems to be tied to Piccolo, just because they trained in episode 30.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Tagoma stomped Piccolo quite bad. I agree he should be 4-B.
Also this does not seem to indicate that the gap between Gohan and Piccolo is nearly as high as you say.

If Gohan was Large Star level he wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell against Piccolo, since he's scaled to much higher end 4-Bs. (Frost who somewhat scales to SSJ Goku, who's able to stomp SSJ3 Gotenks in base)

Plus nothing explicitly states or implies that Piccolo was drastically supressing himself against Gohan. Not going out maybe but not restraining by that much.

Prefer to quote instead of repeat it.


Also, Gohan losed the Mystic Form, yet I don't see what that implies. I mean, it was his hidden potencial.


And the time between RoF and U6 is not enough for Piccolo to jump a tier, even less talking about 4-B

 

[Dark649]

Tagoma and Frieza should not be upgraded because Piccolo trained very shortly after (his resurrection) Golden Frieza saga, but the time jump seems to be inconsistent.

 

[Dark649]

Or Goku was heavily suppressing himself against Botamo and Frost (even as super saiyan) because Vegeta, who is comparable to Goku in all forms (As stated by Whis) one-shotted Frost in super saiyan. So that means that Goku could one-shot Frost, but the poison stopped him from doing that. So Tagoma is High 4-C, current Piccolo, Gohan, Watagash, Frost and Botamo should be High 4-C+, while Frieza is at least High 4-C+.

 

[Ryukama]

Even if we say SSJ Goku was heavily holding back against him, Frost was still able to fight on somewhat equal footing with Base Goku in his 3rd form. The same base form that can stomp SSJ3 Gotenks. Frost would be 4-B regardless.

 

[Dark649]

Ok, i agree with them being 4-B. The last thing that gives me a little concern is Tagoma and Frieza being upgraded, despite being stated that they did not trained prior Golden Frieza arc.

 

[Ryukama]

Well the thing is whether or not this site considers RoF Piccolo and Gohan to be 4-B. I thought it did. And it doesn't seem like the time gap between RoF and U6 was long enough for Piccolo to get that much stronger. But if RoF Piccolo isn't 4-B, then neither should Tagoma and Frieza.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I honestly don't see why they wouldn't.

 

[SomebodyData]

Piccolo in RoF being weaker than Gohan should be considered PIS, it makes no sense when he demonstrated significantly greater capabilities in a short time later

 

[RadicalMrR]

I honestly think Piccolo was already 4-B during the Buu saga.

It makes no sense for him to be High 4-C during the Android Arc, train in the HTC, Train for 7 years until Buu, Train like 4 years until Frieza and still be High 4-C than get a huge jump in power after a few days of training with Gohan.

 

[Antoniofer]

Eh, not sure who is Watagash, but, why would Gohan in RoF be 4-B when was stated to be weaker than himself during Cell Games? Vegeta even made to notices that Gohan was slightly weaker in Buu saga, so at most, SS Gohan in RoF is as strong as Cell perfect form (not max power).

Don't see why Piccolo being weaker than Gohan in RoF is PIS, can fit pretty fine in scaling being that "weaker".

 

[Ryukama]

Frost, Botamo, and Piccolo definitely should not be getting downgraded. For them to have any sort of fight with Base Goku, they need to be 4-B. There's no way people weaker than SCP are going to be able to hold their own against a guy who casually stomps SSJ3 Gotenks.

The only thing in question is whether or not we consider Gohan to be 4-B at this point.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Gohan has been training since RoF.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Rad I agree, though I would put "At least High 4-C, Possibly 4-B" to be in the safe side.

@Ant Gohan was stated to be weaker than his prime, which is Ult Gohan.

Scaling wise it makes no sense, Piccolo had already surpassed basic SSJs, and Gohan is struggling to even be there.

 

[Dark649]

I honestly think Piccolo was already 4-B during the Buu saga.

I think not, Piccolo was very scared to fight East Kaioshi, who later got stomped by Majin Buu. Piccolo did not trained since then and much later got stomped by Tagoma.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Gohan in SSJ oneshotted Tagoma, who is much stronger than Piccolo.


So, SSJ Gohan being 4-B is ok.


About Base Gohan, he managed to make sime damage and battle Piccolo in training. Even if Piccolo was holding back, I don't see that he would do it tremendously

 

[Antoniofer]

Piccolo being 4-B during Buu saga is something that makes no sense, he still pretty much weaker than Cell perfect form back then, but Dark already pointed that out. Personally, even in Super, Piccolo no selling against someone as Buu sound farfetched...

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Dark I did(well technically antonio) a calc that puts Kaioshin in Large Star+ and thats just with Matter Manipulation and any form of Buu is far from base Solar System.

 

[SomebodyData]

Why does everyone keep saying Perfect Cell rather than SPC?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I think not, Piccolo was very scared to fight East Kaioshi, who later got stomped by Majin Buu. Piccolo did not trained since then and much later got stomped by Tagoma.

Well, to be honest

Buu also stomped badly Dabura (High 4-C+) and Majin Vegeta (4-B)


Just saying.

 

[Antoniofer]

I say Cell perfect form (due Budokai Tenkaichi) to refer to Cell pre-zenkai, sometimes I say Perfect Cell or just SPC (try to avoid the last one in case people or me confuse it with SCP).

 

[Ryukama]

Why does everyone keep saying Perfect Cell rather than SPC?

I said SCP tho

 

[SomebodyData]

I see

 

[Ryukama]

I see as well.

 

[PaChi2]

if Krillin trains with goku, can he get the 4-B rating? I know itsnot the discussion here, but just wanted to know.

 

[Dark649]

if Krillin trains with goku, can he get the 4-B rating? I know its not the discussion here, but just wanted to know.

No, a jump from 5-B to 4-B in one episode from a human is too much. It's very likely that he will rise in power, but not that much. If he will trade blows with Goku or Gohan, it will regarded as Outlier.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Yeah, I mean, isn't Krillin even weaker than 18?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Forget 18 im pretty sure even Goten and Trunks currently are already too much for him.

 

[Antoniofer]

Forget 18 im pretty sure even Goten and Trunks currently are already too much for him.

>him,I think you mistake 18 with 17. Neh, Goten and Trunks are just slightly stronger than 18, not sure about 17, he hasn't a limiter as his sister, but he hasn't trained in a good time.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Wait goten and trunks are>18?

 

[Antoniofer]

Don't remember that much, but is what people say in forums and boards, so yep; still weakers than 16 tho

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I think Base Trunks and Goten< 18

SSJ Trunks and Goten> 18.