Country Level DCEU Superman is a contradiction.

[Hellbeast1]

Firstly, Zeus making humans isn't confirmed. That's just another part of the myth that's never addressed. The only true part of the myth is that Ares fought Zeus. The rest of it is exaggerated and/or distorted.

Except Ares straight up says that he saw the evil within Zeus's creation (humans) and tried to sghow him their corruption. Nothing seems to indicate that Zeus creating Themyscira is falsehood and unless it is outright stated as exactly that i doubt we can make a downgrade of this capacity.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Matthew

Just Like Kaguya, these 2 feats from Supes and Zeus are proven outliers or at least contradicted in BvS, which takes place after both.

Iirc, PJ Gods could create Constellations.

Vampire Diaries in which 2 characters created Dimensions large enough to hold billions of souls.

But even in verses like Supernatural and Bleach, characters create things or can create things, but what they create doesn't scale to stats.

Gremmy created a Large Meteor, am I to assume his stats are proportional?

The fact is, we don't know how Zeus created the island. He could have just imagined it, or matter manipulation, etc. You can't just assume it scales to stats.

I'll ask you one question, and your answer determines if I drop this Island debate, how did Zeus create the island?

• Was it like Gremmy via imagination?

• Was it like Madara with Chibaku Tensei?

If you don't know how, then how can we scale it to stats?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

They're not outliers. Zeus created an island in Wonder Woman which was released after BvS. The feats in Wonder Woman are better than the feats in BvS which are better than the feats in MoS. This is the same thing as what happened in the comics, the characters weren't as strong in 1986 as they became later.

PJ Gods are 5-C due to the Constellation Feat, what are you talking about.

Supernatural has characters scale to their creations, i.e, God creating the Universe, Heaven, Hell and Purgatory, what are you talking about.

Zeus used the last of his power with his dying breath to create an Island. Why do you think it doesn't scale to full-power healthy Zeus?

 

[LordXcano]

Okay, again, the NUKE did not have 7-A energy. Doomsday got a 7-A calc based on false premises. The calc assumes Doomsday's explosion follows nuclear scaling laws, which it evidently does not.

The calc is the equivalent of arguing hand grenades are building level based on nuclear scaling laws. They obviously arent, it's just that those equations don't work with those types of detonations.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's not false premises. You are the one saying it is a false premise but you are incorrect. Doomsday got hit by a nuke, and then released a blast of nuclear energy which wields 7-A.

And that's a hilarious false equivalency.

 

[LordXcano]

Can you explain why? Because so far you're just repeating "the nuke is 7-A" without actually adressing the point about Doomsday's explosion being of a completely unknown nature.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Doomsday absorbed a nuke and unleashed the 7-A blast.

What other energy would it be?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I already addressed that the explosion releases nuclear energy a bunch of time, you just keep repeating it didn't. It's plenty obvious what happened.

• Doomsday is hit with Nuke which creates a gigantic explosion in space which blots out the sky in Metropolis
• He falls on the island, and immediately begins to grow spikes and increase in power
• He flares with power and releases it in a gigantic explosion which razes the island and shoots a kilometer-thick beam of energy into space.

Meaning: Doomsday got empowered by the Nuke and released an explosion of nuclear energy.

It's so obvious. You yourself figured it out the first time months ago.

 

[LordXcano]

@Ever The point isn't that he used the nuke to do the blast. The point is that his blast itself is unquantifiable. It very well could be just 10 tons of tnt equivalent because we don't know how dense the energy there was.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's nuclear energy, that much is obvious. He gained his new power from nuclear energy and released nuclear energy.

 

[LordXcano]

@Matt There's no such thing as "nuclear energy". In order to use nuclear scaling laws to perform a calc it has to be a nuclear bomb going off, and I really doubt Doomsday is forcing uranium to undergo nuclear fission there.

In lack of that the only way you can calc the feat is through the energy density of the explosion, which we do not know. Therefore the feat is unquantifiable outside of the stated 10~ kiloton yield. It's really simple.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I never saw any stated 10 Kiloton yield either in the movie, and the explosion was significantly larger than what it should be in that case. This reminds me of a Marvel Comic where a guy shoots an EM-Wave beam which circles the planet but he also states that it moves at Sub-Relativistic speeds. The feat is greater than what's stated.

If it even is stated.

And why would Doomsday's explosion have a density lesser than a nuke's if it was caused do to a nuclear explosion he absorbed?

 

[LordXcano]

1. Not really sure how you're coming to the conclusion the explosion is larger than it should be. The nuke was only a couple hundred miles up when it exploded and plus nukes work a bit differently in space than they do on Earth.

2. The nuke is a Minuteman III, which, I'll admit, I got the number wrong on. It's 170 kilotons rather than 10.

3. Because the energy is more spread out. Density is dependent on volume, so if he's using 10 kilotons over a larger volume than the energy would be less dense. Assuming it has the same density over a larger volume is assuming that he pulled energy from nowhere.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But he didn't pull energy from nothing, he got energy from the nuke. How difficult is that to be?

 

[Zensum]

What LordXcano is saying makes sense, doomsday was releasing his own type of energy after taking in nuclear cruise missle 10kilotons along with KE of bullets, blows.. etc and yielding different results...so trying to measure its potency without knowing energy density using nuclear scaling makes little sense.

He absorbs the nuclear blast but is there any stated proof the product is nuclear? We can convert solar energy to eletricity right. This would be like measuirng the electrical output of a solar panel by using the energy density of the suns core.

 

[LordXcano]

@Matt Okay, he got the energy from the nuke. In that case his explosion was simply less energy dense unless you can prove the explosion of the nuke itself, not Doomsday, was 7-A.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't see why it is so hard to make the logical assumption that if you get hit with a nuclear explosion, absorb it, and then release it back, what you'll be releasing is a nuclear explosion.

The explosion was 7-A via the calc. Not that it matters since Superman is scaled from better feats and Justice League will undoubtedly feature even better feats than any DCEU movie so far.

 

[LordXcano]

A plant absorbs solar energy and then releases that back but it isn't releasing beams of light is it?

No, again, the nuke explosion was not scaled to 7-A. Doomsday was, but that's based on the false premises that Doomsday was literally performing nuclear fission there.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm pretty sure you can realize how ridiculous this comparison is. A plant doesn't release an explosion.

But if a plant absorbed solar energy and then started emitting light, it's a pretty safe bet it's releasing beams of light.

 

[LordXcano]

Alright, cool. If a plant absorbs light and then emits light that's good to go.

But someone absorbing a nuke and then shooting out energy beams doesn't mean the energy beam is a nuclear explosion when none of the visuals match up with that in any way shape or form. It's an explosio sure, but so is a landmine going off. But those aren't nuclear, are they?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, but a landmine isn't exploding because of a nuke, how hard is that to get?

>Nuclear Explosion goes in

>Doomsday goes boom

>Nuclear Explosion goes out

 

[LordXcano]

No, energy comes out. Doomsday doesn't get shot by helicopters and then release energy that's... what... a ball of bullets? He just releases a ball of energy.

A nuclear explosion requires nuclear fission to be taking place. Now unless you are saying that Doomsday was accelerating particles of uranium into other particles of uranium at relativistic speeds to make an explosion that looks and behaves nothing like real nukes then stop saying what came out was a nuclear explosion. It's just... an explosion. It was powered by a nuke, sure, but so are many houses. And they output electricity, not nuclear explosions.

 

[Zensum]

He absorbs the nuclear blast but is there any stated proof the product is nuclear? We can convert solar energy to eletricity right. This would be like measuirng the electrical output of a solar panel by using the energy density of the suns core.

@matt the shockwaves doomsday was releasing were acting differnt from a nuke detonation sure the nuke helps power it but it yields something new

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I still don't see how you can't understand such a basic assumption. He released the energy from the nuclear explosion back. The explosion looking different than a Nuke is visual style, honestly.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Mattthew

Note, it never stated he used "Power". It said with his dying breath he created it. And again, nothing suggest it scales to him physically because it could have easily just been reality warping.

You're assuming it scales to him physically, based on "nothing" but a vague statement. Does Gremmy's meteor creation scale to his strength/durability/AP outside of visionary for example? No (And i bring up Gremmy because his feat is relevant).

And the movie realease dates =/= Timeline in the movie.

It's "WW > MoS > BvS", not "MoS > BvS > WW"

• Zeus's feat is unquantifiable based on not knowing "how" he created the island and thus shouldn't scale to Stats. (Quoting the statement doesn't prove "how" he created it).

• Superman's country level feat is contradictory given how he fought Doomsday prior tobbeing hit with the nuke.

Come on, man. I know you're reasonable. You said you see my point in that regard. I understand my position in it comes off as I'm assuming Doomsday used that much power against Superman, but Portrayal backs up my claim 100%.

Edit: Also, I understand this topic may be irksome, but I hope its not making us enemies or anything like that. You're a cool person and that's the last thing I want. I'm here to make friends, not foes.

 

[LordXcano]

It isn't that I'm failing to grasp that he releases the energy from the nuke back. I 100% understand that. I'm saying that because the explosion does not meet the requirements for it to be a nuclear explosio (It's just powered by a nuke) means that it cannot be scaled by nuclear scaling laws.

Like I said, houses are powered by what is essentially a controlled nuclear explosion. But blowing up a house will obviously not be the equivalent of a nuclear detonation.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Zeus' feat isn't unquantifiable nor is Superman's Country level feat contraditory. It aligns perfectly with the country level feat. We know that Zeus used the last of his power to materialize an island. It's simple, you are just overcomplicating things.

And order of release matters because it shows that the movies are showing more impressive feats as they advance.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And the house analogy is also a false equivalency, seriously. This is way more direct than that.

 

[LordXcano]

@Matt Care to explain why "this is powered by a nuke but the energy it releases isn't a nuke" is a false equivalency to a scene that is someone being powered by a nuke and then releasing energy that is very clearly not a nuke?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Because houses don't explode. It's simple stuff.

 

[Antvasima]

Given the controversy regarding this thread, it is probably best to keep it closed.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

MAtthew you cannot close thread for your own personal reasoning. Everyone was debating calmly ahd respectfully I suggest you live up to your status as an admin and not close threads on your whim just because you can't argue their evidence

 

[The_Everlasting]

You're missing the entire reason the thread was closed, Grudge.

It was closed because it's going in circles and won't be going anywhere.