Country Level DCEU Superman is a contradiction.

[TheFinalOrder]

Feat/Calc:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Matthew_Schroeder/DCEU_Superman_Shifts_Tectonic_Plate

According to this feat, Superman would be country level for shifting the tectonic plate. Now, this would be fine had it not been for that final battle.


Scaling:

If Superman is country level, then:

• Doomsday

• Wonder Woman

Scale to him.


This again, would be fine had Superman not been killed by a Quick Response Nuke.

Now, I've seen the argument against this multiple times across multiple forums, which badically amounts to:

"Superman was weakened by the Kryptonite Gas and Rod, so, he wasn't at full power"

Then they reference the scar on his face still being there, now, normally this would be the killing argument, but not this time.

You see, Superman's feats prior to being blasted by the nuke go against the notion of him being weakend. Sure, an argument can be made that he was weakend a little before being hit, but not enough to justify a supposed country level character being killed by a city level bomb, especially considering:

• He was in direct sunlight IN SPACE, not earths shadow.

• Was 20-30 minutes unaffected by Kryptonite.

But that isn't even the big part. The big part that pokes a huge hole in Country Level Superman is the scaling.

• First, If Superman is Country Level then so is Doomsday. Prior to being hit by the nuke, Superman could block Doomsday's attacks, stagger him with his punches and tank his attacks in tandem without bodily harm.

So, the notion of Superman being weakend by Kryptonite prior is a weak argument. Sure, he wasn't at 100%, I can give you that, but not so weakend he couldn't match a supposed country level character.

• Second, upon reviving and becoming 100% again if not more, he and Wonder Woman couldn't really take out Doomsday and both were matched. Mind you, Doomsday at this point only absorbed part of the energy from Military grade helicopter missles, Batmans plane missle and part of a nuclear explosion, which for a country level character, would be insignificant additions to their power.

So, given the feats, there is only 2 outcomes:

• Superman, WW and Doomsday are actually City+ at their strongest.

• DCEU America has At Least Country Level, Likely Higher Nukes.

And if I remember correctly reading through some pages, it was stated "What's shown takes priority over what's stated."

And this calls into question Wonder Woman's Island Level scaling Which is another contradiction.

DCEU is inconsistent in power Scaling because top feats contracted each other.

According to the Timeline:

• First: Ares V Gods.

• Second: Zeus creates the Amazon island on deathbed (Was this shown or stated?).

• Third: Wonder Woman Kills Ares who is slightly below Zeus (Thus At Least Island Level scaling)

• Fourth: Superman shifts Tetonic Plate to stop a earthquake (Thus Country Level rating and scaling to others)

• Fifth: Superman fights with Doomsday (Blocking, Tanking, Throwing Punches)

• Sixth: Superman takes Doomsday into space where both are hit by a nuke (Superman Dies, Doomsday absorbed part if its energy and got stronger after evolving)

• Seventh: Superman comes back stronger and teams with Wonder Woman to fight Doomsday (But they make nobprogress)

Only 1 of these feats were shown though, iirc.

 

[Schnee_One]

He didn't get killed by a quick response nuke....... He was briefly KOd after battling Doomsday after being around Kryptonight for nearly ten minutes straight.

By the way, the Nuke is 7A, and it's a low end.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Gargoyle One

• What do you call being nearly reduced to a skeleton if not death?

• Brief KO doesn't negate the fact he still Tanked his hits, blocked his hits and staggered him.

• Link to 7-A nuke?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LordXcano/Doomsday_Nukes_Striker_Island

 

[Schnee_One]

1. It's called being alive and regenerating.

2. Blocking hits from a 7A, Doomsday wasn't 6C to 6B until after absorbing power on the island.

3. Can't link, but Xcano did it.

This nothing but a Low End done by minutes on end with Kryptonight and fighting 7A Doomsday before tanking a nuke, with some PIS possibly in as well.

One feat contradicted the others that are all consistent with one another.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

That's High 7-B, no? At any rate, it's inconsequential to the main point.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There is no High 7-B, its 7-A, almost High 7-A and its a low end

 

[Schnee_One]

High 7B doesn't exist.

Yes, your main point is using a simple, explained low end.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Gargoyle One

• Nope. Superman died from Doomsday Stab and still regenerated...or rather will have regenerated in JL. No proof to back up your claim he was alive while there are 2 instances of regen after death. Even if he wasn't dead, his Durability was FAR less than a simple nuke and he wasn't really weakend that much at the time as his feats suggest.

• Doomsday wasn't 7-A prior to being hit nor do we know his condition after being hit. The next time we see him, he's evolving and absorbing. And no, Absorbing tbe partial energy of a nuke wouldn't make him Hundreds or Thousands of times stronger. And remember, Superman Prior to the Kryptonite fiasco was supposedly "Country Level" So, Doomsday before being hit by the nuke would still be country level if he was.

So, it would've been "Superman takes hits, blocks and staggers Country Level DD, to be killed (Left in s skeletal state) by a nuke".

Thus, the nuke contradicts the country level feat because of the scaling.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

All I'm saying is this, given the scaling, the energy Doomsday absorbed would be insignificant to his overall power. He'd be Country Level before being hit by the nuke and after being hit.

And given Superman's feats against him prior to being hit, The Kryptonite argument isn't valid.

The nuke contradicts country level superman because of the characters that he is fighting.

If he was country level or even Island level, the nuke wouldn't have hurt him. And likewise if Superman was 7-A at the time of being nuked, how do you explain him again "Blocking, Tanking and Staggering" a country level rage monster, when what's shown takes priority?

 

[Schnee_One]

1. Yes he dies when a 6B impaled him after being close to Kryptonight, what's your point?

2. Yes he was, and yes it does, this is fiction, not everything is 100% perfect. Him absorbing power is why he became 6B.

It doesn't contradict the scaling, it's nothing but a low end that unlike a lot of others, actually has an explanation.

 

[Schnee_One]

All I'm saying is this, given the scaling, the energy Doomsday absorbed would be insignificant to his overall power. He'd be Country Level before being hit by the nuke and after being hit.

And given Superman's feats against him prior to being hit, The Kryptonite argument isn't valid.

The nuke contradicts country level superman because of the characters that he is fighting.

If he was country level or even Island level, the nuke wouldn't have hurt him. And likewise if Superman was 7-A at the time of being nuked, how do you explain him again "Blocking, Tanking and Staggering" a country level rage monster, when what's shown takes priority?

Because it's a low end, and nothing more.

You are taking multiple country level feats and saying their inconsistent because of a single moment of Kryptonight Superman being hurt by a Nuke and using it to say the scaling is inconsistent, by this logic, Goku is 9C because his 3A self nearly got killed by a bullet before the tournament of power.

It's an outlier/low end, that contradicts multiple feats in the series and nothing.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Gargoyle

The goku example isn't valid as it doesn't compare to this feat in the slightest, and you're claiming multiple country level feats when there is only 1, and that's Superman's tetonic plate feat.

A feat which this feat contradicts. It's not an outlier either. The only outlier is the tectonic plate feat. I dare you to reference any other country level feat Superman has.

Dude was killed by a nuke after 1 feat scales him to Country Level. A feat that's far more absurd than all his feats combined in MoS / BvS. You can't claim the nuke is an outlier when its closer to all his feats besides the one.

It doesn't matter if the Nuke is Low End High 7-A. That's leagues below Country Level and Island level.

Your argument isn't making any sense and you're pushing false information.

All this means is a slightly weakend Superman can be Killed by a High 7-A. 100% Superman is unknown as the only feat he has at countradicted by A Nuke in the same movie. Wonder Woman is contradicted as well by as she can't one shot a being that is High 7-A when all is said and done, and actually struggled to fight him.

This feat takes priority over the two feats stated and not shown. And again, Goku being nearly killed by a generic laser isn't comparable here.

Again:

• Superman only has 1 country level feat which isn't shown and contradicted

• Wonder Woman has 1 Island Level scaling that I don't think is shown, but definitely contradicted in BvS.

• You can't claim the Nuke is outlier as all Supes feats in MoS/BvS are vastly lower, compared to that 1 tetonic feat, which is the only outlier.

 

[Schnee_One]

High 7A and 6C is barely 10 times stronger, makes sense he would be weakened to such an extent by Kryptonight exposure for 40 minutes.

"Superman only has one country level feat which isn't shown and contradicted"

By him getting KOd briefly after Kryptonight exposure and a fight with Doomsday, which makes sense.

Actually, it is shown, Zeus is about to die, waves his hand, and the island appears, again, not contradicted.

-Every single feat in both movies is above that by a significant margin, and again, Superman was insanely weakened by Kryptonight.

You are using Supes getting KO'd for two minutes by a combination of Kryptonight and 7A monster to disprove two feats that are perfectly consistent with one another with one of them being showed on screen by a guy who was killed by Ares despite having help, before Ares gets killed solo by Wonder Woman.

Superman did a 6B feat at full power, Superman himself being equal to Winder Woman who defeated Ares who himself killed Zeus and his army, Zeus being the the guy who managed to create an island with his dying breath.

Superman=Wonder Woman>Ares>Zeus at full power>Zeus with his last breath, this guy being the one who created an island on screen. Makes sense that someone who is superior then him at full power would do a feat far better then that. And being KO'd for two minutes by a nuke after hours of fighting near Kryptonight is actually fairly consistent, a weakened Supes being knocked out by a High 7A nuke makes the feats even more consistent.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Gargoyle

The Top of High 7-A to the top of 6-C (Because you know, They are rated as "At Least Island") is a 23+ times difference.

The Top of High 7-A to the bottom of 6-B is 30,100x difference.

I'm not going to repeat myself after this. Given Superman fight with DD before getting hit by the nuke, you can't use the Kryptonite argument, his feats in those exchanges prove you wrong, period.

So, be it 23+ - 30,100, if Supes matched DD at these levels, to Die by a High 7-A nuke, then he evidently couldn't be 6-C let alone 6-B and Neither could DD or WW, and by extension The Gods. At best, Zeus feat doesn't scale to stats. But the nuke contradicts Supes Country Level feat and Zeuses Island Feat.

If you disagree, and uou clearly do, that's fine. I'm still waiting to get others opinions.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Dear God, this again?

The Nuke is High 7-A and Superman was weakened, if he was exposed by sunlight the scar on his cheek would have healed. And he didn't spend 20 minutes without Kryptonite.

Also, Doomsday absorbed the nuke and Superman and Wonder Woman could harm a stronger Doomsday and the later even cut his arm

Zeus created an island with his dying power, Ares mortally wounded Zeus and newbie Wonder Woman killed Ares.

 

[Schnee_One]

I already stated this.

Didn't work.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Dear God, this again?
The Nuke is High 7-A and Superman was weakened, if he was exposed by sunlight the scar on his cheek would have healed. And he didn't spend 20 minutes without Kryptonite.

Also, Doomsday absorbed the nuke and Superman and Wonder Woman could harm a stronger Doomsday and the later even cut his arm

Zeus created an island with his dying power, Ares mortally wounded Zeus and newbie Wonder Woman killed Ares.

Did you even read the OP, dude?

And Nothing suggest how Zeus created it scales to stats as he created Humans the same way the story board shows.

And in case you didn't, which is sad, Superman's feats prior and the scaling make it contradictory.

https://youtu.be/DRCdvnz-wss

>Weakend Superman vs Country Level Doomsday

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@TheFinalOrder

I read, it's wrong.

• Zeus did create Humans
• Zeus created the Island with the last of his power
• Superman moved a Tectonic Plate
• The Doomsday Nuke was calced at High 7-A
• Superman had just been hit with Kryptonite twice, was at night, and didn't regenerate from a cut at his cheek, meanwhile seconds of exposure to direct sunlight regenerate his muscles and skin
• Superman could harm the Doomsday who absorbed the Nuke and Wonder Woman cut his arm

 

[Hellbeast1]

I agree with Matt, the DD nuke alone should be in the mountain level range and thats discarding the tectonic plate and Ares feats.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Matthew

Ok, so now, it's after the 4th bullet point where the contradiction lays.

• Superman Prior to the Batman fight would be Country Level according to the Tetonic Plate Calc (Which would Scale to Wonder Woman and Doomsday).

• Superman fights Doomsday alone after confronting Luther, Blocks a Punch, Staggers him with a Punch, and tanks several attacks only to be momentarily KO'd, but no bodily harm.

Stopping here for now, Superman would be much higher than High 7-A given these feats, no? Unless I missed the consensus where a High 7-A character can have this fight that Superman had in the link I provided in my last post, with a Country Level character.

 

[Schnee_One]

Man you are so hostile just because someone disagrees... Don't get your panties in a bunch.....

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Man you are so hostile just because someone disagrees... Don't get your panties in a bunch.....

Um...excuse me, but nowhere in any of my posts am I hostile.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Plenty.

• Your argument isn't making any sense and you're pushing false information."
• "Did you even read the OP, dude?"
• "And in case you didn't, which is sad, Superman's feats prior and the scaling make it contradictory."

You shouldn't get angry people disagree with you.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Matthew

That's not being hostile or antagonistic. I'm not going to argue the point or explain why i worded my responses that way as it seems you've both feel like I was being hostile, regardless of what I say about it, so i'll just take it as a warning and try not to sound hostile anymore. I apologize if you guys took it as such.

But back to the conversation, did you get a chance to look at my last response. My argument basically argues that If Superman was really weakend to the point of being killed by a High 7-A nuke due to the Kryptonite, he wouldn't have been able to do what he did with Doomsday prior to being hit by the nuke.

And about the nuke as I explained before, If Doomsday is Country Level prior, Absorbing the energy wouldn't change his rating as he's be 30,100 times stronger than the nuke. Which again, would be contradictory given Superman feats in their exchange to be Killed by the nuke.

You see what I mean?

I feel like this key part is being ignored, which, yes...is irksome.

 

[Schnee_One]

Man you are so hostile just because someone disagrees... Don't get your panties in a bunch.....

Um...excuse me, but nowhere in any of my posts am I hostile.

How the hell do you not remember the stuff in your own comments? Or do you think you're being reasonable?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I do. The problem is that you are assuming that every single fight or instance or scene has to have the exact same power level.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Man you are so hostile just because someone disagrees... Don't get your panties in a bunch.....

Um...excuse me, but nowhere in any of my posts am I hostile.

How the hell do you not remember the stuff in your own comments? Or do you think you're being reasonable?

It's pointless to discuss it now. Like I said, if you took is as such, I apologize.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I do. The problem is that you are assuming that every single fight or instance or scene has to have the exact same power level.

It's Doomsday. DCEU's Hulk...kinda hard to tell when he's holding back, or why he would hold bsck as he's portrayed wild, lol.

At the very least, that initial punch he threw wasn't him holding back, that much is obvious, and he doesn't have to hold back to be staggered by Superman's punch.

I wouldn't necessarily say I'm assuming that much power is being used given his portrayal (Similar to Mindless Juubito), but if we're going to argue about that, Portrayal does lend credence to my argument.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You didn't at all get it. Every DCEU movie so far has been getting better feats than the last, and I used to consider Country level an Outlier until Zeus created an island instantly with the last of his strength.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I get that. Now in discussing Zeus creating an island, Aren't everyone assuming he did in a way that scales to stats when there is ways to do so that doesn't? Other characters have proven this across fiction, the same as we don't credit Kaguya as Being Planet Level in stats for creating a dimension with planets in them, for example.

The Zeus feat takes place millennia before BvS and WW killing Ares takes place decades before BvS. So, barring Superman TP stuff, the Nuke again discredits that.

DD couldn't One Shot a supposed weakend Superman who even staggered him. Given a High 7-A nuke deaded Supes, We know DD is Below that before absorbing some of its energy. Which means he's likely in the 7-B area. Absorbing the nuke wouldn't have remotely put him near At Least Island Level WW who would be at least 15-20x stronger than him still.

The bottomline is, you can't have a Weakend Supes being below High 7-A without having DD below High 7-A because the feats suggest this. And absorbing the nuke wouldn't make him 15-20 times stronger. Thus WW, who struggled against DD, can't be Island Level in stats, which means Zeuses feat didn't scale to stats, in which there is no proof it did. And again, there are more examples of this across fiction, such as Percy Jackson Gods creating constellations as another one.

 

[LordXcano]

1. I've already explained why my calc isn't useable. The model of nuke is stated, it has a yield of about 10~ kilotons and the calc assumes that the energy density of the explosion Doomsday set off is equal to the energy density of the regular explosion. Which is basically the equivalent of saying "Goku absorbed 100 J and then used those 100 J to make a 10 megaton explosion".

2. Superman, while bloodlusted, punches Kryptonian armor about 9 times. The helmet is fine. Later on a single cruise missile hits a Kryptonian and their helmet is completely destroyed. I assume the military has Country level cruise missiles too?

3. Zeus likely did not create the island. The story is dismissed as a myth for children later on in the movie and the movie goes out of its way to debunk everything about it. Unless, of course, you're going to say the whole plot point about Ares having not actually corrupted men was a lie and also that Zeus really did make a Godkiller sword even though that too is shown to just be some fake mumbo jumbo?

 

[The_Everlasting]

"Zeus likely did not create the island. The story is dismissed as a myth for children later on in the movie and the movie goes out of its way to debunk everything about it."

I'm very sure that's not what happened.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The only thing about that story which is inaccurate is that Ares didn't make humans evil and warlike, that's in human nature. Everything else is 100% accurate, such as Zeus creating men and the Amazons, Ares starting wars to get men to kill themselves, Ares killing the gods and mortally wounding Zeus. Even the Godkiller was accurate, that's Diana. Hypolita was just hiding the truth about it.

And nope, that Nuke clearly had an explosion far greater than that of a 10 Kiloton nuke. It razed the entirely of a 4 mile wide island and even shoot a kilometer-thick beam of nuclear energy into space. Don't care if the stated wield is whatever, because it's clearly incorrect.

 

[LordXcano]

Firstly, Zeus making humans isn't confirmed. That's just another part of the myth that's never addressed. The only true part of the myth is that Ares fought Zeus. The rest of it is exaggerated and/or distorted.

The nuke did not have an explosion greater than 10 kilotons. Doomsday had an explosion of unknown energy density, but great size. But because of the fact the energy density is unknown it isn't a quantifiable feat. This is the same guy who shot a blast of energy as wide as several city blocks just from the energy he absorbed from some helicopters shooting him, it's clear the energy density of his explosions aren't that high unless bullets in the DCEU are packing 0.1 tons of TNT equivalent per shot.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

I agree with LordXcano about the Superman Nuke part of his argument.

Still contemplating and waiting for further arguments about the Zeus one.

 

[The_Everlasting]

"The rest of it is exaggerated and/or distorted."

Proof? The movie never attempts to say anything in the myth isn't true besides Ares making humans evil.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, Joshua, Ares literally states that he was envious of Zeus' creations and wanted to show him that they were flawed.

The explosion of the nuke was also greater than 10 Kilotons. After getting hit with it, Doomsday released the excess absorbed energy (Nuclear energy) and caused the explosion calced at High 7-A.

Also the explosion he released earlier wasn't from the helicopters, it was just him releasing his own energies, considering it did significant damage to the building top he was in and the surrounding buildings. If that was due to the Helicopter Bullets than those bullets really would have to have a power of 0.1 tons.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I'm not denying personally that Zeus created the Island, I'm just not convinced it scales to stats like with other characters with Similar feats:

• Kaguya

• PJ Verse Gods

• TVD Top Tiers

Etc. Being nothing suggest it does...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@TheFinalOrder

Kaguya wasn't accepted for reasons of Outliers

Percy Jackson Gods who create the world are Planet level, I dunno what you mean.

Dunno what TVD is.