Coronzon additions (cont.)

[Churronzon]

Continuing from a previous thread, here's the revisions that solely contain additions for Coronzon.​

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Sandbox​

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List of abilities:​

Spoiler: Lifeforce Destruction

She can destroy the lifeforce of humans with a roar.

The demon physically roared.

Against a normal person, that might have shaken their body and snuffed out the life force
circulating within like it was a candle’s flame, but unfortunately for Coronzon, Mina
Mathers had none of those gentle and uncertain elements.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 19 Prologue

Spoiler: ESP

There's a feat regarding her status as a "higher being".

Lola spoke deeply while curled up in the fetal position and surrounded by sticky colors.
At the same time, she sensed something with her sensory organs as a higher being. That
Great Demon clenched her teeth and waited for her avatar’s pulse to calm.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 21 Chapter 3 Part 1

Spoiler: Vibration Manipulation

Vibration Manipulation (On top of vibrating her voice, she can transmit messages over large distances by vibrating glass and can likely shatter it as well).

“Kee kee.”

A voice responded.

However, it was not a biological voice. The RV’s windshield vibrated to create the voice
like a speaker.

[...]

Coronzon could directly attack Egypt from Britain.

The ley lines were like the planet’s nerves or blood vessels. While they did provide a
pathway to reach here, the current of power covered every part of the planet like a network.

It was not this one pathway that mattered. No matter where the fiber optic cables ran,
people were equally connected to all the data in the world. Unless they were a dealer or
trader making tens of thousands of high-level deals every second, no one would notice
any time loss there. As long as the world was connected, the result was equal for all.

So...

(Is it not just here? Great Demon Coronzon, how many different parts of the planet are
you attacking right now!?)

For one thing, the series of conflicts beginning with the Crowley’s Hazards would have
affected the entire planet given the scope of it all.

But in this case, the nature of the threat was not so clear.

It was of course all over if they stopped moving and the RV was skewered, but...
(If she can remotely cause glass to vibrate, this could be bad. This is a threat to the
experimental equipment meant to create Lilith’s vessel!!)

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 2 Part 1

Coronzon used the "vibration of her voice to destroy" a deadly curse.

After severing the unneeded hair with a karate chop and using the vibration of her voice
to destroy the deadly curse line built through her hair, “Lola” finally turned to face her
enemy.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 19 Prologue

It's also listed in her profile:

Curse Manipulation: Lola was able to neutralize a deadly curse from Mina Mathers using only the vibrations of her voice.

Spoiler: Self Sustenance Type 1

Self-Sustenance Type 1.
She can survive in space.

Excising the demon infesting the delicate brain or heart was meaningless when the source
patient remained elsewhere and could re-infect them. And it was Aleister Crowley herself
who had launched the largest source of the disease out of reach.

That is, into space.

In the eternal isolation of the Windowless Building, the angel and demon approached the
conclusion of their battle.

“...I see. So this is as far it goes this time.”

That pained voice came from Aiwass.

Avatar Lola Stuart’s slender hand grasped his neck and pointlessly lifted him from the
floor in the weightlessness of space.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 19 Between the Lines 4

There was no oxygen or gravity.

The Windowless Building had been thrown out into true outer space and the angel and
demon’s fierce attacks continued inside.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 19 Between the Lines 2

Spoiler: Self-Sustenance Type 2

She's an incorporeal demon and likely doesn't require food with an avatar either.

Demons generally possessed people, which meant they did not have their own physical
bodies, but did they still need sustenance? Or was it an issue of enjoying the flavor and
sense of fullness? Qliphah Puzzle 545 was eating a hearty eggs benedict made from an
English muffin, a mixture of a poached egg and a carbonara-like cream sauce, and several
thick slices of bacon. (The shocking part was that people here thought of this as a
refreshing morning meal that was kind to the tongue and stomach first thing after waking
up.) She glanced over at the loading area for tour buses bound for Edinburgh Castle as
she ate.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 2 Part 3

I could thus also go for giving it a "likely" prefix.

Spoiler: Resistance to Cosmic Radiation

Coronzon can traverse the vacuum of space and is unaffected by the cosmic radiation when ejected with the Windowless Building.

The artificial structure shot beyond the darkness of the night with the long blonde-haired
monster still inside. Airtightness and radiation shielding no longer mattered. There was
still a gaping hole in the wall as it flew straight toward the thick atmosphere. This was
more than a simple banishment.

“There is no way Coronzon will die so easily,” spat out the witch of darkness, knowledge,
and life.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 19 Prologue

They were outside the atmosphere on a ballistic trajectory at an altitude of 3,500
kilometers.

[...]

Her path clearly changed.

Great Demon Coronzon dropped toward Edinburgh Castle with the force of a meteor.

She fell.

She fell and pierced the surface.

If it did not burn up in the atmosphere, a human-sized mass was more than enough of a
weapon. If it crashed into the ground like that, it could erase something the size of
Edinburgh Castle from the map.

Light and noise exploded out.

The air was compressed into a solid wall that scattered in every direction like a shockwave.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 21 Epilogue

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Edit: New ability suggestions discussed in the comments section​

Spoiler: Clairvoyance

Coronzon has Clairvoyance from spying on Aleister from across the globe.

The board chairman narrowed his eyes a little and then looked up at the night sky.

And as he looked up, he spoke.

“What do you think you’re looking at, you bitch? Do you want me to curse you to death
right this instant?”

♦

“Hm.”

Lola Stuart spoke to herself on the other side of the globe.

“That confirms it.”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 15 Epilogue

Spoiler: Limited Creation

Limited Creation (Can create grimoire based recreations of magicians, lower demons, and avatars)

Creation of Samuel Mathers' grimoire form.

She would draw rough sketches on it with special charcoal made from red wine and iron
oxide while using bread crumbs in place of a kneaded eraser. Needless to say, those
materials had been chosen to apply symbols of flesh and blood to the card. By coloring it
with pigments chosen based on personal traits found in things like bibliomancy and
reinforcing it with a thin layer of the wax used for cursed dolls, she could create a member
of the Golden cabal.

As seen with the artist Mina Mathers, magical items like tarot cards could be newly
created from just about anything.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 3 Part 1

The Mathers here was an original grimoire created from tarot cards. The other Golden
members were the same. That was why his goal had been to outdo Coronzon to free them
all.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 21 Chapter 4 Part 3

She created an avatar for herself, the Aethyr Avatars(listed on her profile), and the lower demon Qliphah Puzzle 545.

Qliphah Puzzle 545 was an artificial demon created by Lola Stuart (i.e. Coronzon).

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 21 Chapter 2 Part 3

Qliphah Puzzle 545 was
another example. Coronzon had power equal to or greater than Aiwass, so she had
successfully created an autonomous artificial angel based on the Qliphoth.

[...]

It was possible to create beings that thought for themselves.

And for higher beings on the level of Aiwass and Coronzon, it was possible to create things
like the baby Lilith and Qliphah Puzzle 545.

With so many previous examples, there was no reason to not do it again.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 21 Chapter 2 Part 7

I can create artificial beings like Qliphah Puzzle
545 using nothing more than letters and numbers, so I do not need to mix different bodily
fluids together.”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 3 Part 10

“But I am Great Demon Coronzon, the only demon to have gained my own body of flesh
and blood. Not even Satan and Beelzebub could manage that. The tree is not just to ascend.
Descending it every once in a while can be fun. For better or for worse, this cage of flesh
stabilizes my soul and makes me sturdy enough to remain unshaken when I command an
energy very similar to Telesma.”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 4 Part 14

Limited Power Nullification (Can interfere with and is unaffected by the magic of lower Aeons, meaning magic based on monotheistic and polytheistic religions. As such she can, for example, prevent others from healing injuries caused by her using spells based on the Christian Son of God. Furthermore, she cannot be killed by miracles reliant on the Sephiroth and Qliphoth as she controls who ascends and descends the tree)

It's listed in her profile:

• Aeon Interference: Coronzon exists beyond the three Aeons of Isis, Osiris and Horus. This gives her power some ability to interfere with the magic of lower Aeons. For example, although Aleister Crowley's healing spell based on the Son of God could heal most of Touma Kamijou's body after he was left near death by Coronzon's Flaming Sword spell, his right hand that had directly received the spell couldn't be healed by a spell belonging to the Aeon of Osiris.

Spoiler: Power null scans

“Isis, Osiris, and Horus. I exist beyond all Aeons, so did you really think that would be
enough to break me?”

“Not good, human.”

Othinus whispered from his shoulder.

She was a complete Magic God, a human who had risen to the utter mastery of magic. And
in exchange for losing all that power, she had been given the stabilized form of a palm-
sized fairy.

That may have been why she understood.

This was a warning from the god who informed warriors of their death, so it carried quite
a bit of danger.

“She is the same as me right now!! She is not an ongoing magical phenomenon! She is a
paranormal being that has already acquired the final result of a physical body! Just like
you can’t restore burned paper by touching the ashes, your Imagine Breaker cannot
defeat her!!”

"I suppose the Son of God's power is indeed only of the Aeon of Osiris. It is not enough to
overturn the scars left by Coronzon, who exists beyond Horus..."

“The Divine Mixtures that brought together ancient Egyptian and Greek mythology were
from the Aeon of Isis. The power of the past two thousand years found in that bible so
loathed by the very human who finally reached for it was from the Aeon of Osiris. ...So
what about now? Coronzon is throwing her power around, the Enochian language is being
used as a foothold, and even Nuit and Hadit have made an appearance. One look at the
chaotic state of the world is enough to conclude the Aeon of Horus has arrived. The
previous methods no longer apply. If you do not update your rulebook, you can never keep
up with the new way of the world.”

"A blood sacrifice?" said the hair angel. "But magic of the Aeon of Osiris cannot harm me,
human. The laws of the ruler are already shifting elsewhere!!"

On one side was the human who had overcome her inferiority complex and reached for
the bible once more.

On the other side was the Great Demon who stood beyond Isis, Osiris, and Horus.

Agree: Rez, FantaRin_The_First, Aseka, XDragnoir, Accel0305, eliaspower1234, DontTalkDT[Staff], Enter_Bluey​

Disagree:​

Neutral:​

Spoiler: Reject Pile

Proposal:Coronzon should have Regeneration Negation. (At least Low-Mid, likely higher. Touma couldn't regrow his lost arm and Aleister couldn't heal him with a spell based on the Son of God)

Reasoning:

It came from where Kamijou Touma’s right hand should have been. Everything past his
elbow was missing. No, everything past there was refusing to heal. Something was
obstructing the healing process.

Mikoto’s eyes widened.

“Eh?”

This was far better than the hunk of flesh that had looked more like a disturbing mosaic
than anything. But a single wound to the wrist could be deadly. They could not just leave
him like this. Unless they stopped that blood gushing out, the recovered boy would lose
his life before reopening his eyes.

“Eh, eh!? Wait, what do we do!? Can’t you fix his right hand!?”

“I suppose the Son of God’s power is indeed only of the Aeon of Osiris. It is not enough to
overturn the scars left by Coronzon, who exists beyond Horus...”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 1 Part 2

“I do not get it either.” Othinus sighed softly next to his pillow. “Is it because the wound
was cauterized to stop the bleeding, or did Coronzon or Aleister’s attack apply some kind
of special effect? Whatever the case, your right hand is not growing back on its own this
time. ...Of course, I never did know why it was growing back in the past. When I can’t
explain to you why it did what it did, I can’t exactly tell you why things are different this
time.”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 2 Part 2

It's also stated in Coronzon's profile.

• Aeon Interference: Coronzon exist beyond the three Aeons of Isis, Osiris and Horus. This gives her power some ability to interfere with the magic of lower Aeons. For example, although Aleister Crowley's healing spell based on the Son of God could heal most of Touma Kamijou's body after he was left near death by Coronzon's Flaming Sword spell, his right hand that had directly received the spell couldn't be healed by a spell belonging to the Aeon of Osiris.

If you agree, let me know(with reasons why) if you think the regen negation should be higher than what I listed.
Proposal: Coronzon should have Enhanced Senses added to her Powers and Abilities section like the lower demon she created, Qliphah Puzzle 545, does.
Reasoning: I'm being lazy on this one since it's such a basic ability. The reasoning should be the same as the one used for Qliphah Puzzle 545 as Coronzon is a Great Demon and her creator.
Proposal: Coronzon should have Resistance to Extreme Temperatures (Can traverse the vacuum of space and survive the re-entry to Earth)
Reasoning: Self-explanatory; Coronzon can survive in space and the re-entry to Earth.

(I should take a ballistic route instead of normal flight. Heading ‘outside’ and reentering
should be faster.)

That Great Demon did not care about her avatar’s convenience.

With Coronzon filling the avatar, that soft flesh would not burn up in the atmosphere.

A single line of light broke through the giant warehouse’s ceiling as it launched itself
outside the atmosphere.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 21 Chapter 3 Part 1

Proposal: Coronzon should have Resistance to Madness Manipulation (Types 1, 2, and 3)
Reasoning: Coronzon being a Great Demon should provide her resistance to Types 2 and 3 madness effects from the lower demon she created.
Resistance to Type 1 comes from the Resistance to Biological Manipulation I've mentioned above. Coronzon's true form is also incorporeal as her profile mentions.

Proposal: Coronzon should have Resistance to Biological Manipulation.
Reasoning: It's ridiculous to posit that Shokuhou could control Coronzon and she herself doubted her ability to do so.

Her very existence was an occult curse that had no place in science.

This was not over yet. Whatever-this-was wore a beige habit and swung her absurdly long
blonde hair around. They could hardly think of her as human as she slowly approached.
Mikoto pulled out an arcade coin and Shokuhou pulled a TV remote from the bag she
wore over her shoulder, but would that really work? The girls were shaken on an
instinctual level, not a rational one.

[...]

Mikoto was no longer looking at this from a scientific perspective where titles like
Academy City’s #3 or #5 mattered. Could they really fight? Could they resist at all? She
was not even sure of that. The very foundation she had believed in for so long was
crumbling below her.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 1 Part 2

Proposal: Coronzon should have Telepathy added to her Powers and Abilities section.

Reasoning: As a Great demon and creator of Qliphah Puzzle 545 who has telepathy, Coronzon should also have telepathy.

“Master, I have detected Great Demon Coronzon’s thoughts. I’m a demon she created, so
establishing a connection is easy for me. Should I verbalize it for you?”

“If you want. It doesn’t change anything.”

He heard some unpleasant static like iron sand was pouring into his ears.

Accelerator’s mind had a lot of guests today. Yet another voice cut in.

“Damn...you!! What are you doing? That isn’t the Sephiroth or the Qliphoth. If...if you
embed something like this in the world, it will change things even more fundamentally
than Angel Fall!!”

“I don’t know what that means, so I’ll get right to the point. Qliphah Puzzle 545 has told
me most everything. You’re such a pain in the ass because you have a physical body of
flesh and blood. So I’ll shift that aside and cut it away.”

“Are you trying to apply a powerful external pressure to remove my soul from this
temporary body!?”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 4 Part 16

Also let me know if you think Coronzon has Longevity or Type 1 Immortality for never appearing to age.

Age: Unknown (Appears 18, but has lived for much longer)

 

[Rez]

Agreed with everything

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Yep, I am of the same opinion as Rez as well. Agree with everything!

 

[XDragnoir]

100% agree.

 

[Churronzon]

@Accel0305, I assume you're still in support of these additions?

 

[Rez]

@Accel0305, I assume you're still in support of these additions?

Normal user can't tag only staff members can. But you can contact them directly on the site.

 

[Churronzon]

Oh, my bad. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Accel0305]

@Accel0305, I assume you're still in support of these additions?

Yep, everything seems good. Agreed.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Instead of regeneration negation we may as well just give her power null instead of regeneration negation in particular, given that whole Aeon compatibility thing. It should probably be listed as "limited", though, as Aeon interactions mostly just make sense in-universe. Outside of ToAru spells usually won't have an Aeon (with some possible exceptions via equalization) which makes the ability relatively limited.

The biological resistance doesn't work as Misaki's power is mind manipulation. Yeah, it works via physical mechanism, but we don't give biological manipulation for stuff like that.
To that comes that the feat is very lacking. Misaki questioned if it would work, but we don't see an answer to that, right? Strictly speaking we neither see it not work nor is it stated to actually not work.

Limited creation seems fine.

The resistance to madness isn't a good argument, because she hardly would need to resist the abilities of a demon she created and controls. Qliphah can clearly either select what her dress targets or it works different from Grimoires, as we see her hang around with normal people (like the board of directors), so we can't just give resistance to her stuff to everyone that met her.

What telepathy and enhanced senses is concerned... we don't powerscale abilities. Coronzon otherwise doesn't have Qliphah's abilities, so I'm not sure why telepathy or enhanced senses in particular would apply to her.

Lifeforce destruction is ok.

ESP is fine for the sensory organ thing.

Vibration is fine.

Resistance to extreme temperatures.... I'm not sure. On one hand, yes. Mostly due to the re-entry btw. Surviving space isn't impressive what temperature is concerned. However, I'm not sure whether we would list that when the temperature feat is for temperature a billion times lower than her durability or if we would assume that it at that point is just durability.

Cosmic radiation is ok.

Self-sustenance and longevity are fine as well.

 

[XDragnoir]

The biological resistance doesn't work as Misaki's power is mind manipulation. Yeah, it works via physical mechanism, but we don't give biological manipulation for stuff like that.
To that comes that the feat is very lacking. Misaki questioned if it would work, but we don't see an answer to that, right? Strictly speaking we neither see it not work nor is it stated to actually not work.

Okay, this makes sense, if it wasn't stated we shouldn't assume this

The resistance to madness isn't a good argument, because she hardly would need to resist the abilities of a demon she created and controls. Qliphah can clearly either select what her dress targets or it works different from Grimoires, as we see her hang around with normal people (like the board of directors), so we can't just give resistance to her stuff to everyone that met her.

But then, why are you assuming Qliphah can select the Dangerous Knowledge if it was never stated? At least i don't remember that ever being a thing.

And like, i don't understand the bolded part, if she didn't resist Qliphah's power that would imply she doesn't understand the Qliphoth, what we know isn't true as she created Qliphah based on it, a being who has afaik full knowledge on the Qliphoth.

 

[DontTalkDT]

But then, why are you assuming Qliphah can select the Dangerous Knowledge if it was never stated? At least i don't remember that ever being a thing.

Because we know that normal people like the board of directors or Hamazura and Takitsubo can hang out with Qliphah. Something has to prevent her from driving those guys mad, because she hasn't. Now, there might be several options on why exactly that is. That Qliphah can control her power seems to be the simplest one. Fundamentally, I'm not denying that it could also be something different, but as it stands we can't conclude that everyone who saw her dress is automatically affected.

And like, i don't understand the bolded part, if she didn't resist Qliphah's power that would imply she doesn't understand the Qliphoth, what we know isn't true as she created Qliphah based on it, a being who has afaik full knowledge on the Qliphoth.

If you want to argue Coronzon would resist Qliphah's ability due to understanding the Qliphoth you might have a point, as that is supposed to be the primary way to do that.
That said, we would probably not list mind resistance for that, as it's more a weakness of the mind hax to not affect such people.

That aside, the bolded part is to say: Qliphah wouldn't have attempted to mind hax Coronzon. So there is no reason to believe she would have been more a target of Qliphah's mind hax than the board of directors was. (i.e. not at all)

 

[XDragnoir]

All of these humans being able to stand around Qliphah should be treated as PIS until better evidence is brought that that was actually an action taken by Qliphah.

That said, we would probably not list mind resistance for that, as it's more a weakness of the mind hax to not affect such people.

What? It is resistance to madness hax no matter how you look at it.

Normal people get crazy, those with the right knowledge aren't affected.

 

[DontTalkDT]

All of these humans being able to stand around Qliphah should be treated as PIS until better evidence is brought that that was actually an action taken by Qliphah.

No. If we have several examples of an ability not passively affecting people it should be taken as just not being passive. Really, nothing ever said Qliphah can't shut it off to begin with.

What? It is resistance to madness hax no matter how you look at it.

Normal people get crazy, those with the right knowledge aren't affected.

Yeah... problem is that this right knowledge won't help you resist literally any kind of madness hax other than this one, because no other madness hax only works on those who can't handle Qliphoth knowledge.

Cases of such nature are handled as a weakness to the ability, instead of resistance.

 

[XDragnoir]

Really, nothing ever said Qliphah can't shut it off to begin with.

But it was stated to be a passive thing that happens to anyone who doesn't have the proper training, i don't have to prove a negative here at all

Yeah... problem is that this right knowledge won't help you resist literally any kind of madness hax other than this one, because no other madness hax only works on those who can't handle Qliphoth knowledge.

Cases of such nature are handled as a weakness to the ability, instead of resistance.

I disagree, you're viewing it as if Dangerous Knowledge was something exclusive to the Qliphoth Tree, but seeing these quotes:

"That is the inverted tree that stands in the opposite position of the tree of life protected by the angels. If the just have gone through the appropriate training, it can assist them in acquiring the dangerous knowledge found in that hidden world"

“But if you have sufficient training and experience, the evil tree can assist you in acquiring dangerous knowledge. And all that really means is to learn the standard Sephiroth before peering into the inverse Qliphoth.”

The Qliphoth is nothing more than a mean to get Dangerous Knowledge and the correct understanding of it also protects you from Dangerous Knowledge in general, but Dangerous Knowledge is not exclusive to the Qliphoth at all afaik.

 

[Rez]

Bump

 

[Churronzon]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/toaru-questions-regarding-madness-empathy-soul-fear-manipulation-and-who-if-anyone-has-resistances-continued.143472/

I accidentally submitted a long post but it wasn't complete so I'll just drop a link to the Qliphah thread I recently made.

 

[Churronzon]

The resistance to madness isn't a good argument, because she hardly would need to resist the abilities of a demon she created and controls.

She doesn't control her for long. She would need to resist Qliphah's abilities after Accelerator broke her contract and created a new one in the goal of opposing Coronzon.

Nothing Qliphah tries will work on Coronzon.

Coronzon is my creator and a higher level
demon. If it came to a direct clash of strength, she would overpower me no matter what I
tried.”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 3 Part 9

If this logic is sound, then I'd add another addition for Coronzon: Resistance to Possession. I'd look to also add Resistance to Empathic Manipulation if I even knew what gave Qliphah that ability, lol.

Yeah, it works via physical mechanism, but we don't give biological manipulation for stuff like that.

I see; I misunderstood. I'll drop that addition.

To that comes that the feat is very lacking. Misaki questioned if it would work, but we don't see an answer to that, right? Strictly speaking we neither see it not work nor is it stated to actually not work.

Yes, you're right. I'll retract this reasoning as well then.
I'll substitute an alternate reason; resistance to Qliphah's abilities would provide a Resistance to Mind Manipulation.

What telepathy and enhanced senses is concerned... we don't powerscale abilities. Coronzon otherwise doesn't have Qliphah's abilities, so I'm not sure why telepathy or enhanced senses in particular would apply to her.

I was operating under the logic that Coronzon created Qliphah based on her own model.

Qliphah Puzzle 545 was an artificial demon. She was a supernatural being who had been
downsized for convenience by having a portion of her functionality cut away. But what
model was she based on? She had been created by Great Demon Coronzon. And that Great
Demon would naturally have used the most readily-available model she had: herself.

Great Demon Coronzon was a demon of the Sephiroth rather than the Qliphoth.

She hid in the territory known as the Abyss where the hidden Sephirah named Da’at was
also found. From there, she managed who ascended and descended the tree. She was the
manager whose role was to prevent foolish humans from reaching the tree’s knowledge
too easily. In the modern age, fortunetelling had been standardized so anyone could do it
as long as they had the cards. But not everyone would succeed. Why was that? Because
someone lurked within to obstruct their path in the form of desire and fear.

So.

If Qliphah Puzzle 545 had that functionality as well...

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 4 Part 11

Self-sustenance and longevity are fine as well.

I'm blind because apparently Coronzon already has Type 1 immortality. Doesn't look like it should be listed after all the Resistances. It makes it look like she's resistant to immortality.

I found this thing in the Standard Format page:

• Put resistances at the end of the Powers and Abilities section, separating the main list of abilities from the resistances by starting a new sentence. The following template is preferred to be used:
  • Powers and Abilities: List of abilities. Resistance to: list of resistible powers.

In regards to Self-Sustenance, could Coronzon and Qliphah get a possibly/likely Type 2 based off the ambiguity of the following quote surrounding demons?

Demons generally possessed people, which meant they did not have their own physical
bodies, but did they still need sustenance? Or was it an issue of enjoying the flavor and
sense of fullness? Qliphah Puzzle 545 was eating a hearty eggs benedict made from an
English muffin, a mixture of a poached egg and a carbonara-like cream sauce, and several
thick slices of bacon. (The shocking part was that people here thought of this as a
refreshing morning meal that was kind to the tongue and stomach first thing after waking
up.) She glanced over at the loading area for tour buses bound for Edinburgh Castle as
she ate.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 2 Part 3

Instead of regeneration negation we may as well just give her power null instead of regeneration negation in particular, given that whole Aeon compatibility thing. It should probably be listed as "limited", though, as Aeon interactions mostly just make sense in-universe. Outside of ToAru spells usually won't have an Aeon (with some possible exceptions via equalization) which makes the ability relatively limited.

The reason I didn't go for magic negation yet and was looking to isolate it as a separate ability was because I figured that Touma regrowing his arm wasn't a part of the Aeons or current magic system so I figured she flat out had a non-restrictive regen negation. For example, Aeon Interference in Coronzon's profile explains that it prevents Aeon healing spells, but it doesn't attribute it as a reason for stopping Touma's regen.

The method Touma regrows his arm hasn't been explained and Othinus doesn't know why either.

“I do not get it either.” Othinus sighed softly next to his pillow. “Is it because the wound
was cauterized to stop the bleeding, or did Coronzon or Aleister’s attack apply some kind
of special effect? Whatever the case, your right hand is not growing back on its own this
time. ...Of course, I never did know why it was growing back in the past. When I can’t
explain to you why it did what it did, I can’t exactly tell you why things are different this
time.”

[...]

There was more to Kamijou Touma than Imagine Breaker.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 2 Part 2

We also have confirmation from Aleister Post-WW3 that Touma's right arm can't be explained by the Aeon of Osiris.

“...You tried to explain that right hand, Imagine Breaker...and even The One Who
Purifies God using only something at the level of Christianity. That was your mistake.”

• Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Epilogue

Does Coronzon's Regen Negation through Aeon Interference confirm that Touma's right arm growing back is from the Aeon of Horus?

If we were to go with Limited Magic Negation, how would you word it in parentheses? I'll give you a sample and you tell me what modifications it needs:
Limited Power Nullification (Can interfere with the magic of lower Aeons including healing spells based on the Son of God)

Could a description be added(in her Aeon Interference Technique as well) about how she can't be harmed by the Aeon magic?

“Isis, Osiris, and Horus. I exist beyond all Aeons, so did you really think that would be
enough to break me?”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Prologue

"I suppose the Son of God's power is indeed only of the Aeon of Osiris. It is not enough to
overturn the scars left by Coronzon, who exists beyond Horus..."

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 1 Part 2

“The Divine Mixtures that brought together ancient Egyptian and Greek mythology were
from the Aeon of Isis. The power of the past two thousand years found in that bible so
loathed by the very human who finally reached for it was from the Aeon of Osiris. ...So
what about now? Coronzon is throwing her power around, the Enochian language is being
used as a foothold, and even Nuit and Hadit have made an appearance. One look at the
chaotic state of the world is enough to conclude the Aeon of Horus has arrived. The
previous methods no longer apply. If you do not update your rulebook, you can never keep
up with the new way of the world.”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 3 Part 5

"A blood sacrifice?" said the hair angel. "But magic of the Aeon of Osiris cannot harm me,
human. The laws of the ruler are already shifting elsewhere!!"

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 3 Part 15

“You had failed to defeat me from the beginning.” Coronzon whispered sweetly from close
enough to embrace the silver girl. “It does not matter if you use all the power of this temple
or amplify and weaponize everything you can throw at me.”

[...]

“Try it then. Kee hee hee. I am the ruler of the Abyss and the guardian of the knowledge
beyond. No miracle reliant on the Sephiroth or the Qliphoth can kill me. Because I control
who ascends and descends the tree.”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 22 Chapter 4 Part 14

ESP is fine for the sensory organ thing.

So not for the reasoning of sensing metaphysical realms? Because I was thinking of giving Othinus ESP on all keys(including Fairy Othinus) for sensing the 3rd metaphysical tree of the unnamed Clonoth while inside the Windowless Building that was part of Aleister's phase destruction. I didn't even know it was foreshadowed in NT17 NT18.

“We already knew the Windowless Building was a giant rocket,” whispered Othinus from
his shoulder. “It should have lost its ability to escape the planet with the rocket boosters
gone, but did it go beyond that? The internal space is being extended to connect to the
destination coordinates. That’s what created this strange spatial structure that surpasses
Euclid.”

“This isn’t the Sephiroth or the Qliphoth... It’s almost like a unique third tree built up from
scratch...”

Kamijou had no idea what they were talking about, but the rainbow chain beasts were still
being created from the gears and handcuffs around Maika.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 18 Chapter 2 Part 4

---

Idk if I'm doing this Sandbox stuff correctly, but here's what I got so far.
It currently has the additions for: Limited Creation, Vibration Manipulation, Lifeforce Destruction and Bestial Roar, Self-Sustenance (Type 1, possibly 2), and Resistance to Cosmic Radiation.

 

[DontTalkDT]

But it was stated to be a passive thing that happens to anyone who doesn't have the proper training, i don't have to prove a negative here at all

When was it said to be a passive thing? From what I remember all that was said is that the technique can't be resisted by those without proper training.

I disagree, you're viewing it as if Dangerous Knowledge was something exclusive to the Qliphoth Tree, but seeing these quotes:


The Qliphoth is nothing more than a mean to get Dangerous Knowledge and the correct understanding of it also protects you from Dangerous Knowledge in general, but Dangerous Knowledge is not exclusive to the Qliphoth at all afaik.

I'm fairly if contextually the dangerous knowledge here is not meant to mean "any" dangerous knowledge but "particular pieces of" dangerous knowledge. It particularly refers to "that hidden world" as well... I suppose we could add it with a corresponding explanation and leave the question how it equalizes to other verses to vs-threads.

She doesn't control her for long. She would need to resist Qliphah's abilities after Accelerator broke her contract and created a new one in the goal of opposing Coronzon.

Nothing Qliphah tries will work on Coronzon.

She controls her until Accel takes charge and afterwards doesn't meet and much less fight her IIRC. And the quote doesn't say nothing would work, it says Coronzon would overpower her. And specifically in a direct clash of strength. Coronzon is a billion times more powerful. Of course she would oneshot her.

Given, since Coronzon has Qliphoth knowledge, at least those parts of the mind effects don't work anyway.

If this logic is sound, then I'd add another addition for Coronzon: Resistance to Possession. I'd look to also add Resistance to Empathic Manipulation if I even knew what gave Qliphah that ability, lol.

As said, I don't think it works... to that comes that Coronzon is an incorporeal entity which already prevents proper possession.

Empathic Manipulation comes from her ability to cause hostility.

I was operating under the logic that Coronzon created Qliphah based on her own model.

She very obviously made changes, though. Like how Qliphah is Qliphoth and Coronzon is Sephiroth. And just like users of Crowley-based magic can have vastly different abilities than Crowley, it's possible that Coronzon-based demons have different abilities than Coronzon.

I'm blind because apparently Coronzon already has Type 1 immortality. Doesn't look like it should be listed after all the Resistances. It makes it look like she's resistant to immortality.

You're right. That should just be moved to before the resistances.

In regards to Self-Sustenance, could Coronzon and Qliphah get a possibly/likely Type 2 based off the ambiguity of the following quote surrounding demons?

Might be ok to just give them Type 2 straight up. Them possessing people is the exception and I don't think they eat something while incorporeal. So their true selves almost certainly can't starve.

The reason I didn't go for magic negation yet and was looking to isolate it as a separate ability was because I figured that Touma regrowing his arm wasn't a part of the Aeons or current magic system so I figured she flat out had a non-restrictive regen negation. For example, Aeon Interference in Coronzon's profile explains that it prevents Aeon healing spells, but it doesn't attribute it as a reason for stopping Touma's regen.

The method Touma regrows his arm hasn't been explained and Othinus doesn't know why either.

Thing is, the passage over his arm not regrowing is after Aleister uses his healing spell. I'm fairly sure the healing stated to not work there is Aleister's Aeon of Osiris based spell. I don't think the other regeneration of Touma's arm was in play here.

If we were to go with Limited Magic Negation, how would you word it in parentheses? I'll give you a sample and you tell me what modifications it needs:
Limited Power Nullification (Can interfere with the magic of lower Aeons including healing spells based on the Son of God)

Could a description be added(in her Aeon Interference Technique as well) about how she can't be harmed by the Aeon magic?

Adding the description about not being harmed should be fine.

What the description is concerned, I would generalize it a bit then:

Limited Power Nullification (Can interfere with and is unaffected by the magic of lower Aeons, meaning magic based on regular monotheistic and polytheistic religions. As such she can, for example, prevent others from healing injuries caused by her using spells based on the Christian Son of God)

So not for the reasoning of sensing metaphysical realms? Because I was thinking of giving Othinus ESP on all keys(including Fairy Othinus) for sensing the 3rd metaphysical tree of the unnamed Clonoth while inside the Windowless Building that was part of Aleister's phase destruction. I didn't even know it was foreshadowed in NT17 NT18.

I'm not sure if there is an explicit feat of sensing them via ESP. The Othinus thing I would interpret as her reasoning this from interpreting the magical structures she sees with her knowledge.

Idk if I'm doing this Sandbox stuff correctly, but here's what I got so far.
It currently has the additions for: Limited Creation, Vibration Manipulation, Lifeforce Destruction and Bestial Roar, Self-Sustenance (Type 1, possibly 2), and Resistance to Cosmic Radiation.

Seeing that we can probably link Excorcism to Holy Manipulation given that that's listed as part of the ability for whichever reason.
Your additions to this point look fine form a glance.

 

[XDragnoir]

When was it said to be a passive thing? From what I remember all that was said is that the technique can't be resisted by those without proper training.

That demon’s mere presence destroyed order.

The newspaper articles writhed as they covered her feminine curves.

“Wicked”, “pervert”, “ghoul” – the dancing text was driven directly into people’s minds instead of via their vision and it was all irresponsibly criticizing a certain human.

"Destroyed order" is clearly referring to Qliphah's madness inducing powers related to her clothes.

I'm fairly if contextually the dangerous knowledge here is not meant to mean "any" dangerous knowledge but "particular pieces of" dangerous knowledge. It particularly refers to "that hidden world" as well... I suppose we could add it with a corresponding explanation and leave the question how it equalizes to other verses to vs-threads.

Now you're overcomplicating things without any need, the important part is that they resist Dangerous Knowledge's effects and are thus... resistant to these effects, it's never ever stated that other types of Dangerous Knowledge (other types aren't even stated to exist to begin with) would go through their resistance and much less that they'd need an specific training for each specific type.

Dangerous Knowledge has madness hax, they resist DK, they resist madness hax, as simple as that.

Thing is, the passage over his arm not regrowing is after Aleister uses his healing spell. I'm fairly sure the healing stated to not work there is Aleister's Aeon of Osiris based spell. I don't think the other regeneration of Touma's arm was in play here.

If you're talking about the quote Othinus tries to explain to Touma why his arm isn't growing back, she explicitly says she is talking about Touma's own regen:

Whatever the case, your right hand is not growing back on its own this
time. ...Of course, I never did know why it was growing back in the past.

 

[Churronzon]

She controls her until Accel takes charge and afterwards doesn't meet and much less fight her IIRC. And the quote doesn't say nothing would work, it says Coronzon would overpower her. And specifically in a direct clash of strength. Coronzon is a billion times more powerful. Of course she would oneshot her.

Given, since Coronzon has Qliphoth knowledge, at least those parts of the mind effects don't work anyway.

As said, I don't think it works... to that comes that Coronzon is an incorporeal entity which already prevents proper possession.

She very obviously made changes, though. Like how Qliphah is Qliphoth and Coronzon is Sephiroth. And just like users of Crowley-based magic can have vastly different abilities than Crowley, it's possible that Coronzon-based demons have different abilities than Coronzon.

Alright, I'll retract these proposals. It's true that Qliphah has some abilities that Coronzon doesn't.

Might be ok to just give them Type 2 straight up. Them possessing people is the exception and I don't think they eat something while incorporeal. So their true selves almost certainly can't starve.

Agreed, I'll do that.

Thing is, the passage over his arm not regrowing is after Aleister uses his healing spell. I'm fairly sure the healing stated to not work there is Aleister's Aeon of Osiris based spell. I don't think the other regeneration of Touma's arm was in play here.

Well there's only two theories brought up for why Touma can't regrow his arm.

• One, cauterizing the wound tricks his body into thinking it doesn't need to regen his arm.

“Is it because the wound
was cauterized to stop the bleeding,

• Two, either Coronzon or Aleister's spells applied an anti-regen effect on him.

or did Coronzon or Aleister’s attack apply some kind
of special effect?

However, there's always the possibility that neither of Othinus' theories are right and it's some unrevealed third thing.

Since we can't know for certain, I'm fine with just going for Limited Power Null until we get better confirmation.

Adding the description about not being harmed should be fine.

What the description is concerned, I would generalize it a bit then:

Limited Power Nullification (Can interfere with and is unaffected by the magic of lower Aeons, meaning magic based on regular monotheistic and polytheistic religions. As such she can, for example, prevent others from healing injuries caused by her using spells based on the Christian Son of God)

I assume that includes being unharmed by Horus Magick, unless there's a reason to believe that she isn't.

I'm not sure if there is an explicit feat of sensing them via ESP. The Othinus thing I would interpret as her reasoning this from interpreting the magical structures she sees with her knowledge.

Fair.

Resistance to extreme temperatures.... I'm not sure. On one hand, yes. Mostly due to the re-entry btw. Surviving space isn't impressive what temperature is concerned. However, I'm not sure whether we would list that when the temperature feat is for temperature a billion times lower than her durability or if we would assume that it at that point is just durability.

I'm fine with dropping this as well.

---

I'm adding the tarot-based Golden Dawn Grimoires as part of Coronzon's Limited Creation.

They were tarot cards.

Simply put, it was the same as the black cat witch named Mina Mathers. She had been
both a powerful simulator and the Thoth Tarot, but then Aiwass had set her free by
remaking her as a grimoire to virtually construct a body for her. Qliphah Puzzle 545 was
another example. Coronzon had power equal to or greater than Aiwass, so she had
successfully created an autonomous artificial angel based on the Qliphoth.

Unlike humans, such beings could not refine magic power using their own life force, but
they accomplished something similar by absorbing power from the ley lines running
through the earth.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 21 Chapter 2 Part 7

She heard something rattling in her sleeve.

She pulled it out and clicked her tongue.

It looked like a long and narrow wooden card, but the panel actually functioned as an
extremely special easel. It was a handheld underlay on which she would draw lines and
fill in colors.

She would draw rough sketches on it with special charcoal made from red wine and iron
oxide while using bread crumbs in place of a kneaded eraser. Needless to say, those
materials had been chosen to apply symbols of flesh and blood to the card. By coloring it
with pigments chosen based on personal traits found in things like bibliomancy and
reinforcing it with a thin layer of the wax used for cursed dolls, she could create a member
of the Golden cabal.

As seen with the artist Mina Mathers, magical items like tarot cards could be newly
created from just about anything.

So why had this one broken?

The demon thought about that small wooden panel’s combination of sketch, colors, and
wax coating.

It may have been a similar data transmission method to heating a turtle shell in the fire
and reading the future in the cracks.

(Mathers and a few of the others have taken damage and Berridge was destroyed. Damn,
this couldn’t have been by chance. I guess they’ve figured out the trick by now.)

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 21 Chapter 3 Part 1

---

I updated the sandbox with the following changes:

• I hyperlinked Holy Manipulation to Exorcism.
• I hyperlinked Qliphah's and Samuel's profile to Coronzon's limited creation in the P&A.
• I changed the Type 2 Self-sustenance.
• I added the Limited Power Null.
• I reworded Aeon Interference in the techniques section.

 

[Churronzon]

Bump

 

[Churronzon]

Bump

 

[Churronzon]

Bump.

I added some references to the sandbox.

 

[Churronzon]

ESP is fine for the sensory organ thing.

I found that Coronzon has Clairvoyance from spying on Aleister from across the globe. Would this replace the ESP?

The board chairman narrowed his eyes a little and then looked up at the night sky.

And as he looked up, he spoke.

“What do you think you’re looking at, you bitch? Do you want me to curse you to death
right this instant?”

♦

“Hm.”

Lola Stuart spoke to herself on the other side of the globe.

“That confirms it.”

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 15 Epilogue

Aleister detects it since he himself has clairvoyance in his profile as well.

 

[Churronzon]

bump ig

 

[XDragnoir]

I found that Coronzon has Clairvoyance from spying on Aleister from across the globe. Would this replace the ESP?

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 15 Epilogue

Aleister detects it since he himself has clairvoyance in his profile as well.

Coronzon should have both ESP and Clairvoyance.

 

[XDragnoir]

Also, side note, could you instead of crossing things out in the OP just add a [rejected] at the end? It makes things easier to read.

 

[Churronzon]

Also, side note, could you instead of crossing things out in the OP just add a [rejected] at the end? It makes things easier to read.

Done.

Oh, I also want to add Coronzon's name, Angel of ZAX.

Is that
what this is, Great Demon Coronzon!? Indeed, you were originally the evil angel found in
ZAX, the tenth Aethyr!!”

The important
spell I will use is closely related to ZAX, the tenth Aethyr, which is in fact me.

Coronzon herself was the angel who resided in ZAX, the tenth Aethyr.

“The blood of three doves summons a demon. The target is the angel who wanders the
tenth Aethyr of ZAX and is hidden in the Sephiroth’s Abyss along with Da’at. She is the
transcendent being necessary to cross the Abyss and acquire the knowledge beyond.”

Become no more than a bare minimum tool, Angel of
ZAX...no, weakened Great Demon Coronzon!!”

 

[Enter_Bluey]

Agree with these also Aleister was aware of the arm and I'm pretty sure needed to stop its Regeneration to properly heal touma

 

[Churronzon]

bump