Connie's AP Upgrade

[CinnabarManx421]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like this suggestion has been rejected.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Well, even if people don't agree with my above points I still have another point to go on to.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, and that is?

 

[CinnabarManx421]

In the video game Save The Light, there are several enemies that the Gems fight, but are clearly unable to just barrel through, they can be quite difficult at times, which would put these enemies around the same level as the gems. Connie is one of the playable characters in that game, and she is able to fight on par with these enemies just as well as the gems, despite only being "Wall-level" which doesn't make sense since the gems even have a somewhat hard time taking them down. If she was only wall-level with her stats, she wouldn't be able to fight on par with these enemies at all, rather they would crush her. Some of the towards the end game enimies are capable of easily hurting Garnet, yet Connie can still fight on par with them.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

First of all, Connie uses Rose's sword in that game, so any AP feat is moot. Second of all, Connie has been consistently shown as a Wall level character. If we have 1 instance of tier 6 dura over the countless other times Connie has survived tier 9 stuff, we take the latter and consider the former outlier.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

First off, she wasn't fighting gems with Rose's sword, (except Hessonite) she was fighting the light prism constructs. So the sword's durability negation against gems is null here. It's even proven in the game because there is not a single enemy in the game that Connie can one-shot. (I've played the game through twice, trust me.) Secondly, Connie can take multiple beatings from the Light warriors without going down over the course of the game, (and they only take one real break in that game to go to Bismuth's Forge) so yeah. If she didn't have the tier 6 dura throughout that game she'd constantly get one-shotted every time she was hit, which can happen multiple times in a single battle.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The thing is, this is only true for the game. Everywhere else, both the show and comics, clearly show that Connie is no where as powerful as a sentient Gem. That's way more consistent than a game where one of the many reasons why Connie can tank hits from Gems is because it would have been too boring to have Connie be one-shot the moment the enemy attacks her.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

No, but the light warriors show that they are as powerful as a sentient gem, as they can all go toe-to-toe with the gems throughout the entire game and Connie can take them on as well. That's because her feats against gems are done with durability negation, but the game provides solid and consistent proof of actual feats showing that Connie could go toe-to-toe with gems or gem-level enemies if she didn't have Rose's sword. Also, Connie rarely gets hit in the show, so that's not exactly consistent either.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Sir Ovens. We have to go by some manner of consistency, and cannot scale the cartoon show from a game.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I doubt when the game developers were making Save the light they were thinking Connie's durability was comparable to the light gems. She rarely gets hit in the show quite literally because she's human and Steven can't have her being hit by those levels of attacks.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

So then how can you say for sure that her dura is so low when there's barely anything to go off of? Meanwhile here we have a canon game where she gets consistently hit, way more consistently than the show, against enemies that can damage the gems, and can keep going. Heck, Connie even has a move called "Protect" in-game where she stands in front of an ally to literally take hits for them. Also the game devs were working with the actual crew of the show on the game so I doubt that that didn't come up. Also Ant, none of Connie's feats in the show can really be taken too seriously since they are all done while she has Rose's Sword which is basically like hax against gems. Plus, the reasoning for her Wall-level AP is pretty shaky since it was because she took down a Wall-level gem monster, again, with Rose's Sword, yet here she can take down multiple gem level enemies over multiple battles, yet we'd rather take one instance of her beating a low-level gem monster over the multiple times she takes down the Light warriors? If anything, STL is more consistent with Connie than the actual show since she only ever fights gem monsters with a sword that negates gem dura, yet here the dura negation doesn't work and she can still take them down with some effort.

 

[Antvasima]

As you say, she uses the sword in the main canon, and cannot be scaled from it, but the game cannot be assumed to scale to the main canon, and also likely suffers from Game Mechanics.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Don't get me wrong, the game is indeed canon. But it does seem to suffer from game mechanics.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ant The game is canon and character and events from said game tie directly into the show

 

[CinnabarManx421]

I don't think game mechanics applies here, as nothing in the show contradicts what happens in the game.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Except the fact that Connie struggles with tier 9 enemies in the show?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I gotta agree, Connie being anything above tier 9 without Rose's Sword is an outlier

 

[CinnabarManx421]

When? When does she struggle with a Tier 9 enemy.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

The corrupted Gem at the hospital.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

As I said above, such a feat cannot be used since she took it out with the sword. Nothing from the show can be reliably used to determine her tier since she only ever fights gem mutants with a weapon that negates their durability, while in the game the light warriors are not affected by the gem dura negation, meaning that Rose's sword is, well, a normal sword to them. Also, those are most likely not Tier 9 enemies, one gem mutant nearly broke Steven's bubble. [[1]] Though I digress, she cannot be scaled from feats against these monsters since she basically uses a hax weapon to one shot them. But in Save The Light she fights enemies on the same level as gems and can still take them out despite lacking this hax.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with WeeklyBattles. This suggestion has been rejected. We should probably close this thread.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

But... I've been debunking every counter argument. No one has proven me wrong yet.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

We have, multiple times. I've seen Save the Light gameplay, and I can safely say that any form of attack from a Gem that Connie takes is game mechanics. Given the same logic, we should upgrade all the Gems to High 6-A because all the enemies in the game can harm them and fusions.

Hell, if I miss a block when fighting Excalicrush, that would make Steven High 6-A base dura.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Sir Ovens makes sense.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I gotta agree with Sir on this as well

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Why would them getting hurt upgrade the gems? Them getting hurt proves they are around the same level, not that they're stronger. If they were stronger than the fusions then they would be way harder to take down. Plus in the game they can barely scratch the fusions so the fusions are still definitely way stronger. Also, you can't say it's just game mechanics when there is literally no other way of proving her durability.

BTW I gtg now so I probably won't be able to respond 'til tomorrow, that is if this isn't closed while I'm gone.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Damage is damage, no matter how small. That's why Frisk is 2-C for harming Flowey only slightly.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Well after after recent developments I have realized that all of this (at least the AP part) is a moot point. With Connie getting a new sword in the Steven Universe: Diamond Days special, and since I doubt they'll explicitly say that it also has dura negation against gems, Connie will more than likely get upgraded to tier 6 anyway since I doubt she'll get that sword just for show. I will close this tomorrow if anyone has any final comments.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

BTW while we're on the topic of Save The Light I have another thread going on here about adding the characters STL attacks to their profiles.[[1]]