Concerning AGK's Capital Area.

[Dzhindzholia]

So,right now we use this official size of the Captial City which is 200k km^2 for calculations and staff.I am against it,the size doesn't make sense at all in numerous scans.Not only does the size make the walls around the city 35.5k kilometers but it makes Shikotauzer itself Possibly at least a 100k km in height.

M3X calc in which he calculated the size of the walls.

The whole city itself,the official size makes those mountains to be ridiculous is size,they are much bigger than the walls which are 35k km in height.In this picture we can also notice the Central Building which obviously isn't tens of kilometers tall.

The City again.

Shikotauzer's Leg.We can measure the size of his leg through the buildings.

Another shot of his leg and the whole body.

Another shot of the city.

Again,compare the walls to the buildings.

One of the walls.

Another very important shot,Shikotauzer and buildings are visible just fine.

So,no 200k km^2.

And for reference,here is the picture of the Great Britain which is 209k km^2

 

[AstralKing7]

Nannnnnnnniiiiiiiiii!!!!? Interesting interesting

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

good job. thanks for doing what i told u, appreciate it. now we wait for the chaos to ensue. very professional.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I'll post my response when I'm out of work as I disagree obviously.

 

[M3X_2.0]

It could be a wrong translation, maybe

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

It could be a wrong translation, maybe

It's correct, I checked a few years ago.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

You'll have to bering bome serious points to support the official size.I honestly can't imagine anything supporting it.But Ok,we'll obviously wait for you.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I am in support of using the 200,000 square kilometer of the Capital. My reasons below:

Author Statement Consistency
A random 200,000 square kilometer statement for a city sounds pretty hyperbolic at a glance; however, the author of Akame Ga Kill is actual very consistent and insistent on his world having huge distances or size to a point that he gives us such sizes numerous times through the series:

• 1): The statement that the Capital covers 200,000 square kilometers.
• 2): The statement that the first Night Raid hideout is 10 kilometers north of the Capital.
• 3): The statement that the second Night Raid hideout is 15 kilometers north-east of the Capital.
• 4): The statement that the third Night Raid hideout is 800 kilometers south-east of the Capital.
• 5): The statement that Night Raid halfway from traveling from a distant region to the Capital is 250 kilometers away.
• 6): The statement that the Grand Canal that is inside the Capital is 2500 kilometers long
  • Such a length is only plausible if the Capital was as huge as the author had stated, if it were small as the OP is trying to pass as then it wouldn't be plausible.

Using Shikouteizer Is Fallacious
Shikouteizer's size shrinks and increases in it's fight against Tatsumi, you pointed out several instances where he appears smaller and even in some of your scans he contradicts your narrative. For example in this scan: Another shot of his leg and the whole body. In this scan Shikouteizer's leg appears small in the close-up panel of his leg. However, in the following zoomed out panel, Shikouteizer is overing over hundreds of buildings and now even the area of his feet could contain hundreds of buildings under it. Seriously the buildings are smaller than dots. Here are more incidents that show the author didn't care to scale the mech and the buildings correctly in the fight with Tatsumi:

• 1): Here Tatsumi is 14 pixels tall while multi-story buildings are 21 pixels tall.
• 2): Multi-story buildings are 21 pixels tall and Tatsumi is 27 pixels tall.

Shikouteizer is drawn consistently huge outside of it's interactions with Tatsumi and the author made this very clear:

• 1): Mech is bigger than the giant walls and the buildings near it aren't visible.
• 2): Mech dwarfs the walls and buildings near it aren't visible.
• 3): The Mech dwarfs the walls and buildings once again.
• 4): In a panel of just the Mech's feet the buildings near it's feet aren't even visible and the walls are dwarfed.
• 5): Mech dwarfs the walls.
• 6): The Mech is lying down and the wall is small in size compared to it while the buildings aren't visible much.
• 7): Mech is dwarfing the walls again.
• 8): Once again dwarfing the walls and nearby buildings.
• 9): Continues to dwarf everything and nearby buildings not visible.

Capital Building and Walls are Huge
I can see the preemptive arguments that the Capital walls aren't huge, trying to disprove how huge Shikouteizer is. Even if we didn't use the Capital's area to determine the Capital building's and wall's heights, we can still see they are very huge when not using them.

• 1): Here we can see the Capital building and walls to the nearby mountains and see that the Capital building is much larger than them with the walls being comparable in size.
• 2): In this scan we can directly line up the walls and the Capital building showing the Capital bigger than the nearby mountains and the walls being a bit shorter than the mountains.

Shikouteizer, the Mech, is huge.

The Capital is a 2 Ringed City with Different Sized Buildings in Them
Now I see the next preemptive arguments: "The mech was still shown to be small near buildings". Another thing not addressed by the OP is the difference in sizes of the buildings in the Capital. The buildings in the inner wall (which is where the Mech is at) are larger than the buildings in the outer walls.

• 1): As seen here, the inner wall buildings circled in red are clearly visible while the outer wall buildings in blue are not even discernible in any shape.
• 2): A closer shot, the inner wall buildings in red are made out while the outer wall buildings in blue can not be properly seen.
• 3): Basically the same thing as above, inner wall in red and outer wall in blue. You can see the red buildings but not the blue buildings.

All the buildings the mech is seen by are the buildings I outlined in red above. Those buildings dwarf the regular outer wall buildings. Shikouteizer, the mech, is huge. Using the buildings to try to disprove his size is laughable.

The Mech is Still Big Even in Distance
"I'm not convinced the Mech is big." You don't have to be yet, let me dump more scans on you. The author clearly believes and draws this Mech to be huge as despite the Capital having a 200,000 square kilometer area (thus a radius of 252km), the author draws the Mech to be visible across 252 kilometers. Here I mashed together 4 different instances in the final arc where the author drew the mech to be visible from such a distance.

The Capital Has a Given Geography
Let's not leave out the established geography of the Capital that we've seen throughout the entire manga. I made sure that each of these scans are inside the Capital and not outside the Capital.

• 1): There is a giant colosseum, divided into 24 sections with each section cut in 2. The sections are more than twice the height than their width, yet they could fit over 50 people across in width. This size dwarfs even the largest stadiums found in real life by several times.
• 2): Stated to be in the Capital, there are ruins of towns in the middle of giant forests. Remind me how the Capital could possibly be just city sized but have town ruins surrounded by forests that dwarf them?
• 3): Stated to be in the Capital are visible mountains (no walls means the walls are behind the mountains). Here are eve more instances of mountains from this particular scene in the manga, no walls are visible, thus those mountains are inside.
• 4): At Bols funeral, which is in the Capital due to being in jurisdiction of Wild Hunt (the Capital's police force), we see nearby mountains.
• 5): In AGK Zero we're shown mountains by a nearby prairie. This is further reinforced as it's shown once again, a prairie surrounded by mountains.
• 6): Lubbock's hideout is in the Capital, yet on the horizon are mountains with no walls inbetween them, thus they are inside.
• 7) Let's not forget the Grand Canal that is inside the Capital that is 2,500 kilometers long.
• 8): During Tatsumi's mission on the Grand Canal, we see mountains in the distance with no walls inbetween. The Gran Canal is inside the Capital. This is shown two more times.
• 9) In the Capital, we're shown Fake Mountain resides inside of it which is pretty much a mountain range given the nearby numerous mountains.

If this all doesn't convince you, here is an album of like 20 images I got from the manga where I circled the Capital building and it's nearby inner wall in the background. That same Capital building bigger than mountains, that same wall that is comparable to mountains and these same structures that the giant mech dwarfs in height. Also, this image of Great Britain is misleading. While it is true Great Britain covers 209,000 square kilometers, it's length is over 900 kilometers. This image is greatly misleading.


TLDR: The Capital is big. It's walls are big. It's consistent with author's huge distances and statements that are frequently given. The Mech is big.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

IMade seems to have covered pretty much every point and provided a shit ton of evidence and implications that this city indeed is massive. I'm in agreement with him until someone debunks his points.

 

[TriforcePower1]

IMade seems to have covered pretty much every point and provided a shit ton of evidence and implications that this city indeed is massive. I'm in agreement with him until someone debunks his points.

^

 

[Antvasima]

I think that IMade seems to make sense.

We should probably close this thread.

 

[Rocker1189]

Wait for TFO to respond at least...the ****?

 

[Antvasima]

However, in order to avoid a repeat in the future, should IMade incorporate some of his more relevant evidence into an explanation or footnote section of some Akame ga Kill! page?

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

TFO?

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

However, in order to avoid a repeat in the future, should IMade incorporate some of his more relevant evidence into an explanation or footnote section of some Akame ga Kill! page?

I can certainly do so in the verse page if needed.

 

[Rocker1189]

TFO?

I mean Dz.

 

[Aernasilver]

I mean if it's not contradicted I don't see why we should dismiss a size given by the author himself.

Judging by all the scans IMade brought and how the author gives mutliple big size statements it's clear that the Capital Area should be that huge. So I agree with IMade.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@Ant

WTF?Can you at least wait for me to to look at what he wrote?

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@Aern

"Its not contradicted"

Did you read the OP?

 

[Rocker1189]

I dont see why this 200,000km^2 thing cant include the outskirts fo the capital which would make more sense to me logically? But Idk been a while since read.

 

[Antvasima]

I can certainly do so in the verse page if needed.

Thanks. We should probably wait a little while first though.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I dont see why this 200,000km^2 thing cant include the outskirts fo the capital which would make more sense to me logically? But Idk been a while since read.

Because the outskirts of the Capital is part of the Capital. Outside the Capital is the Empire.

Edit: My scans literally stated this, please read them actually.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Its not like I am going to argue with Imade back and forth. After I reply I'll ask some staff members to comment.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I have already asked a few staff to comment, including two that are knowledgeable in AGK. Schnee and Qaws.

 

[Aernasilver]

@Dzhindzholia: I read it. There is obviously going to be inconsistent drawings here and there since you can't expect them to draw it to scale every single time hence why they gave us multiple statements to express how big it is.

 

[Rocker1189]

Except using the map that has been provided, mountains are outside the capital itself, none are shown to be in the capital itself and they are also on the outskirts leading me to beleieve that the mountains are actually outside the main capital itself, I am just using the images provided by you and Dz:

MapNo moutains are in the main Capital itself.

Entire CapitalNo mountains shown in this pic, note that the great Canal is not anywhere in any Capital shots either.

No mountains

This image also massively contrdicts mountains being inside the Capital as well. Also you use this as evidence? Those mountains would be dozens of km tall if you believe the capital is over 500 km across just saying.

Anyway I think this is my last reply I only commented so that it was not unfairly closed without the opponent's reply.

I am pretty neutral on this especially since I have not read AGK in a while.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

AGK is a huge verse given AGK Zero, the main AGK manga and Hinowa Ga Crush, it's sequel.

We have a huge world as shown in all three manga. We are given huge sizes for numerous areas and large distances consecutively. Of course I would believe the Capital to be what the author stated and the mountains to be huge.

But I do agree the author is not consistent in how he draws the Capital itself. He even forgets the mountains and canals every now and then. As well as the giant forests areas he's shown in the manga. You're expecting too much if you believe someone could draw such a thing accurately.

With his consistent statements at least and geography given, I see no reason to toss aside his 200,000 size.

 

[Rocker1189]

Here is where I contradict myself and reply anyway:

With his consistent statements at least and geography given, I see no reason to toss aside his 200,000 size.

Here is the thing.. I am not saying this statement is particularly wrong, I am just saying that with everything we see it makes more logical sense for the Empire itself to be 200,000km2 not just the capital especally when you said stuff like, they can see the walls of the capital from km away, yet they could not see the walls from their hideouts which were only 10 to 15 km away....

But I agree that if the author intends for it I am fine with it tbh.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

You made a mistake there which I believe is from your time from last reading the manga:

>they can see the walls of the capital from km away, yet they could not see the walls from their hideouts which were only 10 to 15 km away....

We're never given a view towards the walls. When we're shown they're hideout it's always facing the hideout (which is under cliffs) and never what's in front or behind that cliff.

>I am just saying that with everything we see it makes more logical sense for the Empire itself to be 200,000km2

That's easily disproven if you read the scan from where the 200,000km statement is from.

It's literally said "The Capital is here, it covers 200,000 square kilometers, great walls surround it".

If I pointed to a map of the USA and said "D.C. is here, it covers 40 square kilometers" how do you interpret this as the entire country? Especially when the Empire (the country of the Capital) surrounds the Capital (which is incased in walls) as the statement even includes.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@IMade

I am reading your reply and will answer later.

I'll appreciate if you ask Damage and Matt to comment.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Neither Damage nor Matt know anything of the verse, so I see no reason to ask them.

 

[Schnee_One]

IMade seems to have covered pretty much every point and provided a shit ton of evidence and implications that this city indeed is massive. I'm in agreement with him until someone debunks his points.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@IMade

I don't care about their knowleadge of the verse,you don't need it here.

@Schnee

Lets not jump into conclusions ok?I haven't replied yet.

 

[Schnee_One]

I can set a premature agreement until someone replies.

 

[HereComesBigBoi]

yer boi IMade seems cprrect yo

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@!imade

Author Statement Consistency

I dunno why you posted all these scans nothing aside from the size of the canal and Capital's official size statement has to do with the city itself.

This is the least important paragraph of yours.

Using Shikouteizer Is Fallacious

However, in the following zoomed out panel, Shikouteizer is overing over hundreds of buildings and now even the area of his feet could contain hundreds of buildings under it. Seriously the buildings are smaller than dots.

Why are you looking at very little detailed side of the image?I mean,threre is literally white void in this area if we are going by your logic and zoom it,author just didn't draw it because he didn't want it.I posted this picture for the image of Shikotauzer's leg in the upper left frame,which is consistent with another image of his leg I posted.

Here Tatsumi is 14 pixels tall while multi-story buildings are 21 pixels tall.

That's perspective.Also,you just contradicted yourself with posting the image of Shikotauzer and buildings,this just proves my ponit that Shikotauzer isn't 100+km tall.Well,unless you argue that these buildings are kilometers in size.

Multi-story buildings are 21 pixels tall and Tatsumi is 27 pixels tall.

Again perspective,pixel scaling isn't perfect,it leads to inconsistencies a lot.

Shikouteizer is drawn consistently huge outside of it's interactions with Tatsumi and the author made this very clear:

So,how does even a single on these images proves your point?You just posted a bunch of images with a wall and mech.

You probably think you brought some evidence to prove the city is huge but in contrary you posted these images with the idea of walls being tens of thousands of kilometers tall,which you will have to prove first.

Which is the idea of the OP,to prove that the walls are smaller,you post pictures already thinking that the wall is huge,prove it is 35k km tall first.

Here we can see the Capital building and walls to the nearby mountains and see that the Capital building is much larger than them with the walls being comparable in size.

Did you just debank yourself?The mountains and Central Building are visible.....I mean,this picture will make the entrance to be tens of kilometers long.Its not logical and it doesn't make sense.Can you imagine having an entrance to the City to be the size of a City?You know going by the official size those mountains would be 50k km+ in height?And the Central Building is the same size.I dunno how someone can believe in that.

Tl;Dr:Nothing in this Image make sense.

In this scan we can directly line up the walls and the Capital building showing the Capital bigger than the nearby mountains and the walls being a bit shorter than the mountains.

So,again,how does this scan proves your point of the city to be 200k km^2?As I said earlier you are acting on the idea of the City being 200k km^2 when you HAVE TO PROVE IT FIRST.

The Capital is a 2 Ringed City with Different Sized Buildings in Them

Yes,the Central Buildings are drawn to be much bigger,and so what of that?Does it prove your point of the City to be 200k km^2.Do you know how much is 200k km^2?It will make those buildings many kilometers in size,you know people live there,not Giants.We cn also see mountains,which aren't 50k km tall,because that would be ridiculous without further proof.

The Mech is Still Big Even in Distance

Again you are acting on the idea of the city being 200k km^2 which you have to prove but you don't do it Imade,you just post pictures and say "Look the city is 200k km^2 which makes the Mech to be very big".

Prove the freaking City is that big first.

The Capital Has a Given Geography

Stated to be in the Capital are visible mountains (no walls means the walls are behind the mountains). Here are eve more instances of mountains from this particular scene in the manga, no walls are visible, thus those mountains are inside.

This isn't inside the Captial City,there aren't mountains like that,in we can see it in multiple pictures of the whole capital.The outskirts of the Captial can easily be outside of the walls,Its easier to believe because we saw actual mountains outside of the walls and have never seen a single mountain inside of them.

At Bols funeral, which is in the Capital due to being in jurisdiction of Wild Hunt (the Capital's police force), we see nearby mountains.

These are very small hills.

In AGK Zero we're shown mountains by a nearby prairie. This is further reinforced as it's shown once again, a prairie surrounded by mountains.

Again,outskirts of the Capital,just a above.

Lubbock's hideout is in the Capital, yet on the horizon are mountains with no walls inbetween them, thus they are inside.

You can't actually say they are inside or outside from that image.The walls can be further away.So,this point is moot.

Let's not forget the Grand Canal that is inside the Capital that is 2,500 kilometers long.

Its not like the Canal is completely straight and goes in one direction.

During Tatsumi's mission on the Grand Canal, we see mountains in the distance with no walls inbetween. The Gran Canal is inside the Capital. This is shown two more times.

Eeem,the walls are visible....Zoom in.

In the Capital, we're shown Fake Mountain resides inside of it which is pretty much a mountain range given the nearby numerous mountains.

You have to prove its inside the capital first.

I also looked at your pictures,no of them proves 200k km^2.

So,after reading everything you wrote I came to conclusion that you acted at the idea of the whol City and The Walls being 200k km^2 and 35k km in height for the walls respectively.When you had to prove it bringing some good points,the only good point was the Canal but its still moot.

I replied to almost everything,now I am not going to argue on this back and forth cause I know we will never agree.

If people want to believe that the walls are 35000 km in height and the mountains are 50000km in height and at the same time Shikotauzer himself being over 100000 km in heght even when he was proven in multiple scans to be much smaller,well,good for them.

 

[HereComesBigBoi]

yer i still dont agree with u still bro gud rfort was a good read

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

>I dunno why you posted all these scans nothing aside from the size of the canal and Capital's official size statement has to do with the city itself.

>This is the least important paragraph of yours.

Then you completely glossed over the point of that section which I outlined for you even:

the author of Akame Ga Kill is actual very consistent and insistent on his world having huge distances or size to a point that he gives us such sizes numerous times through the series.

>Why are you looking at very little detailed side of the image?I mean,threre is literally white void in this area if we are going by your logic and zoom it,author just didn't draw it because he didn't want it.I posted this picture for the image of Shikotauzer's leg in the upper left frame,which is consistent with another image of his leg I posted.

I feel you missed the point of that scan entirely. It was showing how you contradict your own point in your own scans you used to prove your point.

>That's perspective.Also,you just contradicted yourself with posting the image of Shikotauzer and buildings,this just proves my ponit that Shikotauzer isn't 100+km tall.Well,unless you argue that these buildings are kilometers in size.

I've never once said Shikouteizer is 100km tall. You're exaggerting points now to make my stance seem dubious.

>Again perspective,pixel scaling isn't perfect,it leads to inconsistencies a lot.

>Shikouteizer is drawn consistently huge outside of it's interactions with Tatsumi and the author made this very clear:

>So,how does even a single on these images proves your point?You just posted a bunch of images with a wall and mech.

Perhaps read the whole comment first and the section where I literally go over the height of the Capital building and walls.

You're not proving anything with these comments and I already set up preemptive counters in my initial comment.

>You probably think you brought some evidence to prove the city is huge but in contrary you posted these images with the idea of walls being tens of thousands of kilometers tall,which you will have to prove first.

>Which is the idea of the OP,to prove that the walls are smaller,you post pictures already thinking that the wall is huge,prove it is 35k km tall first.

First you need to stop pulling numbers out of thin air. You're obviously getting frustrated when you flip-flop between claiming that I'm trying to prove the walls are tens of thousands to 35 kilometers tall.

Nowhere do I ever give a number for the height of anything. I've only been arguing off the stated distances and sizes the author gave us for the locations and surface area of the Capital.

>Did you just debank yourself?The mountains and Central Building are visible.....I mean,this picture will make the entrance to be tens of kilometers long.Its not logical and it doesn't make sense.Can you imagine having an entrance to the City to be the size of a City?You know going by the official size those mountains would be 50k km+ in height?And the Central Building is the same size.I dunno how someone can believe in that.

Nothing about this image I posted debunks myself.

You realize not all fictional worlds follow real world standards? This is the world of AGK, a world where the author said this city was 200,000km long. Where distances are hundreds of kilometers away.

Of course I believe what the author told me.

You proved nothing in this point.

>So,again,how does this scan proves your point of the city to be 200k km^2?As I said earlier you are acting on the idea of the City being 200k km^2 when you HAVE TO PROVE IT FIRST.

Again, read the whole comment first before replying since I already addressed this:

I can see the preemptive arguments that the Capital walls aren't huge, trying to disprove how huge Shikouteizer is. Even if we didn't use the Capital's area to determine the Capital building's and wall's heights, we can still see they are very huge when not using them.

There's practically no point in me replying when you're not addressing my own arguments and preemptive counters that have already countered this reply.

>Yes,the Central Buildings are drawn to be much bigger,and so what of that?Does it prove your point of the City to be 200k km^2.Do you know how much is 200k km^2?It will make those buildings many kilometers in size,you know people live there,not Giants.We cn also see mountains,which aren't 50k km tall,because that would be ridiculous without further proof.

When will you read the whole comment before replying:

Now I see the next preemptive arguments: "The mech was still shown to be small near buildings". Another thing not addressed by the OP is the difference in sizes of the buildings in the Capital. The buildings in the inner wall (which is where the Mech is at) are larger than the buildings in the outer walls.

All the buildings the mech is seen by are the buildings I outlined in red above. Those buildings dwarf the regular outer wall buildings. Shikouteizer, the mech, is huge. Using the buildings to try to disprove his size is laughable.

It's rather insulting you glossed over my comment. The basis for your argument essentially boils down to "Tall buildings and walls are not like real life, so the capital can't be that big". And frankly that's a stupid argument to make against a fictional world where there are giant monsters, giant cities, powers and people that can lift house size bears with one hand.

>Again you are acting on the idea of the city being 200k km^2 which you have to prove but you don't do it Imade,you just post pictures and say "Look the city is 200k km^2 which makes the Mech to be very big".

>Prove the freaking City is that big first.

You need to prove the City is small and you glossed over the point again.

>This isn't inside the Captial City,there aren't mountains like that,in we can see it in multiple pictures of the whole capital.The outskirts of the Captial can easily be outside of the walls,Its easier to believe because we saw actual mountains outside of the walls and have never seen a single mountain inside of them.

>Again,outskirts of the Capital,just a above.

The outskirts of the Capital are the Capital.

>You can't actually say they are inside or outside from that image.The walls can be further away.So,this point is moot.

I would have thought as someone who is arguing to prove a point that you would actually make sure that you are making claims that are correct. Lubbock's hideout is in the Capital.

>Its not like the Canal is completely straight and goes in one direction.

A 2,500 kilometer long canal doesn't fit a in a regular sized city as you're trying to imply. The Nile River is 6650 kilometers long and even with it's twist and turns it goes through more than 2 countries.

>Eeem,the walls are visible....Zoom in.

Those aren't the walls, that's the canal walls. It's literally shown in the Canal page I posted... please look through the scans next time.

>You have to prove its inside the capital first.

"Most dangerous place in the Capital region."

You would've seen this if you read the scans I posted.

>If people want to believe that the walls are 35000 km in height and the mountains are 50000km in height and at the same time Shikotauzer himself being over 100000 km in heght even when he was proven in multiple scans to be much smaller,well,good for them.

Perhaps if you stop exaggerating and trying to frame me as supporting ridiculous sizes you would have a better stance here.

No where do I claim a specific height of anything, I'm only proving what the author has given us himself, a 200,000 square kilometer Capital.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I've read through the main manga only, so I can't comment to much on the prequel or sequel, but overall I agree with Imade's points. The Capital is stated to be rather large and has multiple consistent examples of large things inside of it. So I don't see why we should dismiss the 200,000 square km figure.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I agree with Imade's points