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Composite Tekken profiles?

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LeopoldTheBrave

LeopoldTheBrave

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The Tekken-verse has been discussed a bit more than usual lately, but it always gets shot down because things are either non-canon or a non-canon ending in a canon game. It just all seems kinda pointless especially when the feats of certain characters like JACK are consistent in both canon and non-canon, but gets dumped because other characters don't match. Not only that, but lots of the lesser characters who do have cool stuff in the spin-offs mostly have Unknown stats and can barely be used in debates because the plot doesn't focus on them enough in the main canon for them to do anything impressive.

So I wanted to ask if I could make Composite pages for Tekken characters, including both canon and non-canon material as long as it has heavy involvement from the actual team. So like the spin-offs and cg movie, but nothing like Project X Zone or Street Fighter X Tekken.

So that way whenever someone has a big discussion regarding the verse, it can just be added to the composite pages instead of being flip flopped into the "wait for Tekken 7" bucket since it'd just be a waste of time to do that if they don't show more impressive feats than they already have. It'd be like saying "Wait until DBSuper is over" to analyze the Dragon Ball characters any further only for them to not show anything more impressive than that one thing someone wanted upgraded by the time it ends.
 
I am okay for with endings since they are what would happen if character won so they show what is character capable of, not to mention that most endings ARE canon.

I am against including non canon games/movies like TTTT since they aren't canon and those aren't profiles we include.

But there is ZERO reason not to include endings.
 
Personally, I think using non-canon endings is fine, as long as it's not outlierish.

Not sure on non-canon movies and games though. Maybe they can get a different key if they're notable enough?
 
here's the thing like what Mat said if we composite the tekken profiles we have to composite A TON of profiles like KoF, SF to name a few
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
If we accept non-canonical endings for Tekken, why are they always refused for Street Fighter? It's why we lost so many speed feats.
Click to expand...

We shouldn't accept non-canon endings for Tekken; the same applies to Street Fighter and pretty much all of media. I also disagree with the idea of creating composite profiles as it's redundant and would be far too bothersome to actually implement.
 
Composites would be rather difficult to regulate imo, and allowing one and one verse only would make for bias, so we'd have to allow others have composites too, and the list goes on.

I can't say much more than that though since my knowledge of tekken is limited to button mashing to win.
 
Dark649 said:
I disagree, is it hard to wait for Akuma Tekken 7 feats and then scale the verse.
Click to expand...
I thought crossover versions didn't count. That's why I said waiting for Tekken 7 would be pointless because this site wouldn't see him as Street Fighter's Akuma, but Tekken's Akuma who gets scaled to the Mishima's instead of the Mishima's scaling to him. Otherwise we could've already scaled them by now since Heihachi fought on par with Akuma.

I honestly really enjoy the feeling of making articles so I'd have no problem with working on composite profiles if the hassle of making them is the reason they're not happening.

I dunno, personally to me it just felt like it should be done since fighting games in general have so little in terms of plot, so it's clear they use the non canon stuff as a chance to let everyone shine. Like there should be a reason Harada had JACK smash a giant meteor in Tag 2, or had Jin flying at what's been calced to be over Mach 5,000, or had characters like King being able to leap hundreds of feet in the air to perform insane wrestling movies.

Glad I asked though to get some imput. Man, it would've been awkward if I just went ahead and did it anyways. I mean we literally have a page for Ryu SPECIFICALLY for Asura's wrath where he's just DLC where he's 4-C at best. Why worry about no composite SF profiles when that exists? XD jk
 
Tekken Tag Tournament 1 and 2, Jin Tekken 5 minigame, Street Fighter x Tekken and the Movies/Ovas are not canon to the main series which is Tekken 1 to Tekken 7.

Tekken Canon feats: Paul and Kuma destroying a wall, Paul destroying a boulder, Dr. Abel beam, Gun Jack barrier, Bryan breaking havok/destroying an helicopter, Jack 4 explosion, Devil Jin destroying a forest and Heihachi blocking bullets.
 
If Abel's beam is allowed than the whole verse needs an upgrade as that blast was at least Island level, destroying multiple full-sized mountains and the entire landscape around them. Kazuya and Heihachi can one-shot JACK models superior to the one that took the blasts, and Jin is capable of beating Kazuya and Heihachi in base form.
 
LeopoldTheBrave said:
Kazuya and Heihachi can one-shot JACK models superior to the one that took the blasts, and Jin is capable of beating Kazuya and Heihachi in base form.
Click to expand...
The full power of the beam needs to be calced, also yes if Kazuya and Heihachi can destroy the barrier that Gun Jack made to block said beam.
 
Man from Shadow said:
@LeopoldTheBrave

@Dark649


It is also speed feat that he reacted to it which scales to everyone since they can blitz Jacks.
Click to expand...
Yeah there was another forum post where I calced it, but nobody paid attention for some reason. I'll just copy and paste it here.


There are two results I get from this, the 1st being if JACK reacted to the laser the instant it was fired, and the 2nd being if JACK reacted to it as soon at it became visible by passing though the clouds.


1st RESULT

Judging by the size of the earth from the satellites point of view, it's higher than a LEO but not much. So without knowing the exact distance I'll lowball it to the lowest point of a medium earth orbit at 2,000 km or 1,242 miles. The laser hits JACK at about 1.5 seconds after being fired. 1,242 miles in 1.5 seconds gives us a speed of 2,980,800 miles per hour or Mach 3,886. Putting JACK at Massively Hypersonic+ speeds.


2nd RESULT

Since the laser doesn't become visible to JACK until it passes through the clouds, this feat could be much higher. Clouds hang at very different distances from 1,000 to 20,000 feet. But considering they are just above a fully sized mountain, let's say 2,000 feet or 0.3 miles. This means JACK reacted to something going 2,980,800 miles per hour with only 0.3 miles left in its travel. So let's find out how fast that really is.

CONVERSION TIME!

  • 2,980,800 miles per hour.
  • 49,680 miles per minute
  • 828 miles per second
  • 8.28 miles per centisecond
  • 0.828 miles per millisecond.
And we're looking at a distance of 0.3 miles so JACK must've reacted in about 1/3 of a millisecond. So reacting to 2,980,800 miles per hour with only 0.3 miles and 1/3 of a millisecond left to do so would mean JACK reacted at 4,140,000 miles per hour or Mach 5,397 also at Massively Hypersonic+ speeds


FINAL RESULTS

So what do you think between these two? Much of the verse would scale from JACK

  • Reacting to the laser when fired = Massively Hypersonic+ at Mach 3,886
  • Reacting to the laser when visible = Massively Hypersonic+ at Mach 5,397
 
MeleeniumRXJ said:
How does Nina Williams not have a profile? She's in every Tekken game and she has her own game for pet sake.
Click to expand...
Because the canon games don't give her any real feats besides dodging a rocket in the Tekken 5 intro. In Tekken BV she collided headfirst into a truck that created a concrete bridge destroying explosion. She casually tanked it and then proceeded to fight Anna who was IN the truck that exploded.
 
@LeopoldTheBrave

@MeleeniumRXJ


Nina guarded Jin in Tekken 6 and would be able to kill Steve Fox in Tekken 4, so she atleast scales to Gun Jack.
 
She was capable of killing Steve who can hold his own against Hworang who coulf stalemente Jin before.

Jin>Hworang>Steve~Nina

So, she scales, though if Jin is tier X, Nina is low X.
 
@All Do you think that we should accept non-canon endings for both Tekken and Street Fighter?
 
Antvasima said:
@All Do you think that we should accept non-canon endings for both Tekken and Street Fighter?
Click to expand...
I personally think that we should not for both because we might as well accept all noncanon material. For example in SF, if we accepted all noncanon endings we would have to make every character including dan hibiki who has defeated ryu and other top tiers in his endings island level and MHS. And honestly trying to upgrade characters or a verse on the basis of them not having good "canon" feats compared to their noncanon ones is just in no offense ridiculous and dare I say weak. The point of this site is striving to create profiles of characters and verses with as much canon accuracy and truthful,cold hard facts.

I know it's hard to imagine or see your favorite characters in tiers below what you expected them to be but it's the truth and we need to uphold that. We would be no different than the trolls or troll sites who wank or downplay characters they don't like or don't k ow because of sheer ignorance or naivety.

I'm sorry but I stand by my words when I say I don't believe we should accept noncanon endings for both SF and tekken. Hate me or look at me with malice for thinking this but I believe in being as truthful and accurate as possible with ALL characters and verses.
 
0@Grudge

I think we shouldn't use slippery-slope arguments, and accep endings that are possible scenarios. Say the villain's ending is him firing a energy blast and blowing up a city. We can use that as a feat, as nothing about that ending indicated that he wouldn't be able to otherwise.
 
Wouldn't we just treat canonically low tier characters like Dan beating Ryu as an outlier?
 
Exactly. My problem with Grudge is that he is acting under the assumption that we wouldn't be able to differentiate outliers, usable endings and the like.
 
Hmm. I am generally wary of allowing even some out-of-continuity feats, as even if we manage to differentiate what is reasonable in a particular case, it will inevitably lead to members who can not do so, demanding that we should accept virtually anything whatsoever for other franchises.
 
It's best not to use slippery-slope arguments, those tend to be fallacious. Anyone who is a logical, competent Staff Member can see what is an Outlier and what is legitimate.
 
Yes, but that is not the issue. The issue is that a lot of regular members can not, and by my experiences, we would likely constantly have to deal with them.
 
I suppose, although it would open the doors for considerably more of it. At the very least somebody would likely have to write an appropriate rule/explanation for how such issues should be evaluated.
 
@Antvaisma

Some endings are canon by what was said in next game, logic or Tekkenpedia (which is a wiki, but it is reliable by what is canon as it constantly makes diffrence between them).

Main feat is Gun Jack blocking laser that destroy Jack 2, which is canon by Tekkenpedia aswell as logic since in Jack 1 and Jack 2 endings (Tekken 1 and 2) we see them destroyed and in next game new Jack is mentioned since last was destroyed, but for Gun Jack (who in ending survived) it was specifically said he died in an attack from Tekken Force and that he protected his creator again (first time being in Tekken 3 ending for Gun Jack).


I think this is how we should handle endings in Tekken, but I can't say for Street Fighter.

@LeopoldTheBold

They stalemented in Tekken 4 and in Tekken 5 Hworang defeated holding back Jin. Devil Jin stomping him is irrelevant since Devil Jin is completly diffrent tier from Jin.
 
Okay. Thank you for the input.
 
Man from Shadow said:
@Antvaisma

Some endings are canon by what was said in next game, logic or Tekkenpedia (which is a wiki, but it is reliable by what is canon as it constantly makes diffrence between them).

but for Gun Jack (who in ending survived) it was specifically said he died in an attack from Tekken Force and that he protected his creator again (first time being in Tekken 3 ending for Gun Jack).

I think this is how we should handle endings in Tekken, but I can't say for Street Fighter.
Click to expand...
I don't trust Tekkenpedia, they often give out false information. Here's JACK 5's actual prologue mentioning Gun-Jack. It never implied or said he died or was destroyed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5Fb4kmo-fs&t=52s

Tekkenpedia also says JACK-6 units are ten times stronger than JACK-5, but I couldn't find anywhere in game that says so, not even in his prologue where they said it was stated.

JACK 5's ending confirms Gun Jack's to be canon anyways as he has flashbacks while coming to his senses during his rampage. So yeah Tekkenpedia isn't very reliable :p
 
I said by what is canon in my comment. You can see he was destroyed by Tekken force.

I haven't played Tekken 6, however Jack 6 was capable of doing what an army of Jack 5s couldn't. And that could've been used as hyperbole.

Exactly, so it is canon despite people claiming it wasn't confrimed.
 
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