Close-Range Tourney Match 7: Dohwa Cheon vs Axel Stone

[Naito-desu]

Dohwa Cheon vs Axel Stone

• 5 meters apart, Speeds equalized, standard equipment given
• Dohwa Cheon's Pre-Midterms key is used, Axel Stone's third key is used
• Ranged equipment is restricted if there is any
• SBA otherwise

 

[Cimafranca133]

Following.

 

[koopa3144]

Axel: 18,124,774.5 Joules/0.0043 Tons of TNT
Dohwa: 11,780,818.46 joules with 20% Hardness

 

[Armorchompy]

Alright, so, listing advantages for my dude, Axel has some resistance to poison, generally more versatility based off looking at the profiles, can fight at mid range very well if needed, a big LS advantage which he's willing to use, and at least judging by her profile he doesn't seem to be behind in skill, and maybe above her.

 

[Naito-desu]

Bump

 

[Cimafranca133]

Bump

 

[ElajRuengies]

Attack Potency:

• Dohwa Cheon: 20% Hardness is 11.78 Megajoules via this feat, 40% Hardness is 20.92 Megajoules via upscaling from this feat
• Axel Stone: 17.81 Megajoules via scaling to this feat 18.12 Megajoules via this feat

1.54x AP Advantage in Axel's favor against 20% Hardness Dohwa, 1.15x AP Advantage in Dohwa's favor at 40% Hardness

Lifting Strength:

• Dohwa Cheon: 20% Hardness is 25 tonnes via upscaling from this feat, 40% Hardness is 50 tonnes upscaling from this feat
• Axel Stone: 177.08 tonnes via this feat 2,932.67 tonnes via this feat

3.54x 58.65x LS Advantage in Axel's favor against 40% Hardness Dohwa

 

[ElajRuengies]

Alright so Dohwa immediately goes to 20% Hardness at the start of fights after she unlocked it, and then ups it to 40% Hardness when it's clear her opponent is stronger than her.

Although, the upscaling to baseline Small Building level kinda undersells 40% Hardness joule-wise, as an opponent who scaled above 17.74 Megajoules mangled their hand hitting her, and then she one-shot them.

Spoiler: More Force

40% Hardness also gives Dohwa a degree of fire/heat resistance, as she can come out of these explosions with no damage.

Spoiler: Minefield Explosions

Also, Dohwa doesn't use poison until after her Midterms, she's just resistance to it.

 

[Armorchompy]

Alright so Dohwa immediately goes to 20% Hardness at the start of fights after she unlocked it, and then ups it to 40% Hardness when it's clear her opponent is stronger than her.

Although, the upscaling to baseline Small Building level kinda undersells 40% Hardness joule-wise, as an opponent who scaled above 17.74 Megajoules mangled their hand hitting her, and then she one-shot them.

I accept she may be significantly stronger than Axel when that happens, but by then she'll already have taken a licking, so I don't think that's a disadvantage for him. He still seems to hold other advantages, IMO.

 

[koopa3144]

Bump

 

[Cimafranca133]

Bump

 

[Cimafranca133]

He still seems to hold other advantages, IMO.

At least say the advantages so that we can finish the round

 

[koopa3144]

At least say the advantages so that we can finish the round

Axel has a better LS, has better Stamina, and is more Intelligence. While Dohwa is a bit stronger than him in 40% and has a degree of fire/heat resistance. These are the advantages of both to my knowledge.

 

[ElajRuengies]

Axel has a better LS, has better Stamina, and is more Intelligence. While Dohwa is a bit stronger than him in 40% and has a degree of fire/heat resistance. These are the advantages of both to my knowledge.

By the Small Building level baseline border its a bit stronger than Axel, but scaling wise 40% Hardness Dohwa tanks hits from and one-shots folk only a bit below Axel.

 

[Armorchompy]

He's also generally got much more varied techniques than her, can hit harder than he normally would with some of them and if he decides it's necessary he can try and play the ranged game.

 

[Armorchompy]

Also hold on why are we allowing an amp to 9-A in the first place?

 

[ElajRuengies]

Also hold on why are we allowing an amp to 9-A in the first place?

Characters who are Baseline 9-A is allowed, so long as they don't have any amps that put them past that

 

[Armorchompy]

She's one-shotting someone who upscales from 84.78% of 9-A, that's gotta be above baseline.

 

[ElajRuengies]

She's one-shotting someone who upscales from 84.78% of 9-A, that's gotta be above baseline.

Upscaling only allows you to bring someone to the Baseline of the next tier, if its within a 1.2x multiple.

The monster being one-shot doesn't upscale to Small Building level, it just arbitrarily is above 17.74 Megajoules on account of folk being shocked at the specimen's size, despite previously seeing the giant Stag Beetle specimen who did the 17.74 Megajoule feat.

40% Hardness Dohwa upscales to Baseline Small Building level for one-shotting it. And since she doesn't have any better feats, her AP Value is at 20.92 Megajoules

 

[Armorchompy]

OK, can't really check for myself since there's no scans but I'll trust you on that.

Anyway, Axel should still be relative though to Dohwa in her 40% state, and he does hold most other advantages, which I actually feel like I should list rather than just allude to to make things clearer. Basically all scans for this are on Axel's profile but I can point to them for ease of access if needed.

• Obviously he holds an AP advantage at the beginning of the fight. Given the whole gameplay loop of SoR is to dispatch enemies quickly and efficiently ASAP to avoid being overwhelmed, I think it's fair to say he'd try to deal as much damage as possible, which would be effective given Dohwa's initially weaker state and unwillingness to lead with anything but brute strength. The concept of comboing your enemies seems to be at least somewhat canonical in SOR so he'd be capable of capitalizing on any advantage particularly well although this key lacks the more advanced combo tools he has in SOR4.
• I can't tell for sure but Axel seems to hold a significant skill advantage, he can fight swathes of enemies, a variety of martial artist hitmen prepped specifically to take him down, some of whom attacking him with support or in groups of two, or equipped with sci-fi tech or supernatural powers (which admittedly he also has a sprinkle of).
• He's also a very clever fighter, he'll pick up just about anything to use it as a weapon and be decently proficient with it, which also allows him to hit harder than with his bare hands.
• Axel holds a huge LS advantage to the point that, within reason, he can do just about anything if he initiates a grapple (as long as he minds the tail, which he'd have to be pretty stupid to ignore). Typically this is either a flurry of attack or one big, strong one, like a backdrop or a suplex.
• Many of Axel's specials give him a small AOE effect around his fists, which is obviously a huge advantage in a fistfight, and a lot of them have sweeping motions which mean they could be easily utilized to swat away multiple attacks at once or if Dohwa manages to somehow obtain a positional advantage over Axel.
• Supers (Note that while the exact mechanics limiting super usage are shrouded in game mechanics, I generally interpret that as at least meaning the character cannot or will not spam them, though this doesn't mean they will hesitate to actually use them) in particular bring very strong advantages:
  • Police Call summons a friendly cop to assist by opening fire with a rocket launcher. Strong and hard to avoid.
  • Pipe Rage allows Axel to create and rapidly toss seven lead pipes, which is not just a neat ranged option but also gives him plenty of weapons to use. It's also something I assume would be very unexpected, which helps.
  • Soul Striker is a fireball, a bit slow to start but if Dohwa ever hangs back that's a potent option
  • Spirit Blade sees Axel creating an energy katana, which I doubt anyone would expect the first time, and then shooting a blade beam with it. Obviously being able to create weapons is pretty handy in a fight.

 

[koopa3144]

I'm leaning towards Axel for the reasons above but I'll wait and see if there's more argument for Dohwa before I vote

 

[Naito-desu]

I'll give this another 24 hour grace period before I ask someone to call and flip a coin

 

[koopa3144]

Because of the time limit I’ll vote Axel for now

 

[SamanPatou]

Same, I was thinking to write something similar to what Armor posted, but my time these days has been nonexistent.

@Phoenks You submitted Dohwa, right? Your input could be useful.

 

[Cimafranca133]

@Phoenks You submitted Dohwa, right? Your input could be useful.

Correction, Elaj asked Pheonks to submit Dohwa in the Tournament

 

[ElajRuengies]

Anyway, Axel should still be relative though to Dohwa in her 40% state, and he does hold most other advantages, which I actually feel like I should list rather than just allude to to make things clearer. Basically all scans for this are on Axel's profile but I can point to them for ease of access if needed.

• Obviously he holds an AP advantage at the beginning of the fight. Given the whole gameplay loop of SoR is to dispatch enemies quickly and efficiently ASAP to avoid being overwhelmed, I think it's fair to say he'd try to deal as much damage as possible, which would be effective given Dohwa's initially weaker state and unwillingness to lead with anything but brute strength. The concept of comboing your enemies seems to be at least somewhat canonical in SOR so he'd be capable of capitalizing on any advantage particularly well although this key lacks the more advanced combo tools he has in SOR4.

Dohwa typically ups the Gauntlet to the next level after she's taken a couple of hits, and the opponent was stronger than her, so while Dohwa will start weaker, after one combo she'll be at 40%.
And she's shown to be able to bounce back with her raised stats after getting totally overpowered before.

• I can't tell for sure but Axel seems to hold a significant skill advantage, he can fight swathes of enemies, a variety of martial artist hitmen prepped specifically to take him down, some of whom attacking him with support or in groups of two, or equipped with sci-fi tech or supernatural powers (which admittedly he also has a sprinkle of).

That's fair

• He's also a very clever fighter, he'll pick up just about anything to use it as a weapon and be decently proficient with it, which also allows him to hit harder than with his bare hands.

Also fair

• Axel holds a huge LS advantage to the point that, within reason, he can do just about anything if he initiates a grapple (as long as he minds the tail, which he'd have to be pretty stupid to ignore). Typically this is either a flurry of attack or one big, strong one, like a backdrop or a suplex.

Yeah, that's 50x LS difference is monstrous- (Side note but does LS advantage ever allow you to one shot, like a high enough AP advantage?)

• Many of Axel's specials give him a small AOE effect around his fists, which is obviously a huge advantage in a fistfight, and a lot of them have sweeping motions which mean they could be easily utilized to swat away multiple attacks at once or if Dohwa manages to somehow obtain a positional advantage over Axel.

The Gauntlet at 40% makes her forearms large enough for a similar thing- will insert picture of Dohwa guarding from Junhyeong's danmaku when I'm not on mobile.

• Supers (Note that while the exact mechanics limiting super usage are shrouded in game mechanics, I generally interpret that as at least meaning the character cannot or will not spam them, though this doesn't mean they will hesitate to actually use them) in particular bring very strong advantages:

Makes sense

• • Police Call summons a friendly cop to assist by opening fire with a rocket launcher. Strong and hard to avoid.

Can Axel attack at the same time as the cop or does he stand back while the rocket launcher's fired?

• • Pipe Rage allows Axel to create and rapidly toss seven lead pipes, which is not just a neat ranged option but also gives him plenty of weapons to use. It's also something I assume would be very unexpected, which helps.

Dohwa's guarded against a ton of projectiles before, although that would be unexpected

• • Soul Striker is a fireball, a bit slow to start but if Dohwa ever hangs back that's a potent option

Unlikely she hangs back but noted

• • Spirit Blade sees Axel creating an energy katana, which I doubt anyone would expect the first time, and then shooting a blade beam with it. Obviously being able to create weapons is pretty handy in a fight.

Ah- how big is the range for the blade beam? And is it multiple use? Because if he has that for the rest of the fight then the constant range advantage would be tough to get around.

My main argument for Dohwa winning is that she normally ups it to 40% Hardness as soon as she realizes she's outgunned, and the scaling difference at 40% Hardness is big enough that she could win from hitting him enough times.

While he has a more versatile arsenal, there isn't much that she can't at least guard against while getting closer. (Although again how long he has access to the blade beam energy katana could change that)

The biggest obstacle imo is the 50x LS advantage because goodness that's a gap

 

[Armorchompy]

Dohwa typically ups the Gauntlet to the next level after she's taken a couple of hits, and the opponent was stronger than her, so while Dohwa will start weaker, after one combo she'll be at 40%.
And she's shown to be able to bounce back with her raised stats after getting totally overpowered before.

Eh, bouncing back is good and all but I don't really think Alex is overpowered so easily even after that

(Side note but does LS advantage ever allow you to one shot, like a high enough AP advantage?)

Nah, you still need to overcome durability, you can't go ripping heads off of someone stronger. That said something like strangling would actually be very effective since it's not directly inflicting harm with the LS.

Can Axel attack at the same time as the cop or does he stand back while the rocket launcher's fired?

Uh, in gameplay it doesn't hurt him, but he probably needs to stand back.

Dohwa's guarded against a ton of projectiles before, although that would be unexpected

Unlikely she hangs back but noted

Ah- how big is the range for the blade beam? And is it multiple use? Because if he has that for the rest of the fight then the constant range advantage would be tough to get around.

There's a GIF in the NA&T section, go to special attacks, scroll down to the second gallery, it's the seventh gif. And yeah it's multiple use if he wants it to be.

My main argument for Dohwa winning is that she normally ups it to 40% Hardness as soon as she realizes she's outgunned, and the scaling difference at 40% Hardness is big enough that she could win from hitting him enough times.

Axel's beaten stronger people before, it's obviously a disadvantage.

While he has a more versatile arsenal, there isn't much that she can't at least guard against while getting closer.

I feel like that argument can be made in return too, though, Axel is nimble, more skilled (and possibly more experienced too?), and missed attacks from Dohwa could very easily lead into a grapple or a short combo in return.

 

[Naito-desu]

Alright, grace ended about three hours ago, anyone want to call so I can flip a coin?

 

[ElajRuengies]

Alright, grace ended about three hours ago, anyone want to call so I can flip a coin?

Call like say who's heads who's tails?

 

[Cimafranca133]

Alright, grace ended about three hours ago, anyone want to call so I can flip a coin?

Based on both arguments, I'm gonna vote for Axel FRA

 

[Naito-desu]

Call like say who's heads who's tails?

yep

 

[ElajRuengies]

yep

I guess tails works

 

[Naito-desu]

Dohwa Cheon advances

 

[Cimafranca133]

Dohwa Cheon advances

I still think Axel FRA wins mid diff but ok

 

[Naito-desu]

You can still vote for him if you'd like, I just wanted to give a grace period for it to be concluded, since it was holding us back, though for the next round of matches, it will be decided by vote if a match takes too long to conclude.

 

[ElajRuengies]

You can still vote for him if you'd like, I just wanted to give a grace period for it to be concluded, since it was holding us back, though for the next round of matches, it will be decided by vote if a match takes too long to conclude.

Can you advance Axel instead then? Going by that rule he'd advance. (Plus I've been active here less which has prolly been noticeable, and I'd prolly end up dragging out the next round)

 

[Naito-desu]

Alright, I'll advance Axxel then

 

[Armorchompy]

bumping to get votes anyhow, that way it can possibly be added

Also Axel FRA ig

 

[Cimafranca133]

Because of the time limit I’ll vote Axel for now

bumping to get votes anyhow, that way it can possibly be added

Also Axel FRA ig

I still think Axel FRA wins mid diff but ok

Axel: 3

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Axel FRA