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Hmmm... I wouldn't mind the change in the slightest, probably would be an improvement if handled improperly, but again the problem of a wiki-wide change as profound as this one presents itself.
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Change to the profile format
- Thread starter Kavpeny
- Start date
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Seems fine to me, the problem will be remember it.
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This seems like a great idea. It'll help keep the articles organized. To note, this would make our articles much like other informational wikis, which is not a bad thing. Just make sure the tabber can still be used.
One small issue that might be had is the alignment of some characters. Most are clear-cut (e.g., Goku, Sonic), but some, like Beerus, are not. Most, like myself, see him as a neutral character who personifies an amoral force, but then we have people like Antvasima who insist that he is nothing short of pure evil for the acts he's committed. The issue hasn't been particularly prominent before, most likely because it was relegated to the categories section which most people don't pay much attention to, but with the implementation of these infoboxes, it will be clear out in the open, and everyone will see it.
Other than that, though, the only other issue is that if this is implemented, the process of converting every article on the wiki to the new format will be very tedious and time-consuming.
One small issue that might be had is the alignment of some characters. Most are clear-cut (e.g., Goku, Sonic), but some, like Beerus, are not. Most, like myself, see him as a neutral character who personifies an amoral force, but then we have people like Antvasima who insist that he is nothing short of pure evil for the acts he's committed. The issue hasn't been particularly prominent before, most likely because it was relegated to the categories section which most people don't pay much attention to, but with the implementation of these infoboxes, it will be clear out in the open, and everyone will see it.
Other than that, though, the only other issue is that if this is implemented, the process of converting every article on the wiki to the new format will be very tedious and time-consuming.
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Maybe could be added a new section: Notable Hax:
What do you think?
What do you think?
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@The Wandering Sheperd
that would essentially still be Notable Attacks and Techniques
that would essentially still be Notable Attacks and Techniques
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Thumbs up, great idea!
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For everybody who think that this is a great idea:
What is most important for evaluating it, is not if it looks good, it is who exactly is going to do the approximately 10000 edits of work in order to apply it? And do we even get a significant payoff for the enormous effort, or just a tiny cosmetic one?
The usual answer to "Who does the required work?" used to be me alone, but I will leave in a very short while, due to a massive burnout that makes me increasingly unable to contribute properly, which will cause a massive void of even regular monitoring work that is required to do by the other staff members. Saddling them with hundreds of hours of extra work on top of that seems extremely ill-considered.
What is most important for evaluating it, is not if it looks good, it is who exactly is going to do the approximately 10000 edits of work in order to apply it? And do we even get a significant payoff for the enormous effort, or just a tiny cosmetic one?
The usual answer to "Who does the required work?" used to be me alone, but I will leave in a very short while, due to a massive burnout that makes me increasingly unable to contribute properly, which will cause a massive void of even regular monitoring work that is required to do by the other staff members. Saddling them with hundreds of hours of extra work on top of that seems extremely ill-considered.
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If you're looking for volunteers I offer myself.Antvasima said:
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The changes don't have to come all at once. We can work on them little by little when we have the time.
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it can be a gradual thing we do, so as time goes by we do some pages, we do not have to neccesarily do it all at one time
also this change is not happening any time soon, i think the real prioities right now is our attack potency chart and getting that fixed as well as other pages, also i remeber someone mentioned something about more detailed tiering on the cosmic body part of the tiering
and no those wont be automatically added intitially either as they should be done gradually as well, patience is how most things get done without everyone getting gray hair and even lose hair
also this change is not happening any time soon, i think the real prioities right now is our attack potency chart and getting that fixed as well as other pages, also i remeber someone mentioned something about more detailed tiering on the cosmic body part of the tiering
and no those wont be automatically added intitially either as they should be done gradually as well, patience is how most things get done without everyone getting gray hair and even lose hair
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I can always spiff up the profiles i'm responsible for making if the time arises.
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We have quite a lot of admin-locked profiles that require the staff to edit them, and no guarantees that the unknown quantity non-admins would do the work responsibly without applying other profile changes in the process.
Meaning: Regardless if volunteers would somehow do the hundreds of hours of work rather than the staff, the staff would still have to spend an almost comparable amount of time monitoring all of the edits.
So again: My apologies for being blunt, but given that the change is purely cosmetic, and not strictly necessary, as we already have a functional layout. I think that we simply do not have the resources/manpower to apply it until we get lots of Marvel-wiki style admins who are at least half as dedicated as I used to be. Especially if this is applied immediately after I leave, before the ones that we have get used to splitting up even the basic work required to keep the wiki running.
Meaning: Regardless if volunteers would somehow do the hundreds of hours of work rather than the staff, the staff would still have to spend an almost comparable amount of time monitoring all of the edits.
So again: My apologies for being blunt, but given that the change is purely cosmetic, and not strictly necessary, as we already have a functional layout. I think that we simply do not have the resources/manpower to apply it until we get lots of Marvel-wiki style admins who are at least half as dedicated as I used to be. Especially if this is applied immediately after I leave, before the ones that we have get used to splitting up even the basic work required to keep the wiki running.
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Being the guy who actually has had to do the required work for any wiki-wide changes, has made me rather realistic about these types of issues. It takes an awful lot of time, and is very tiresome.
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It's completely understandable, Ant.
While the change would be very nice, it's a lot of work, and perhaps something we should focus on once things are a bit more stable and the workload is less massive.
While the change would be very nice, it's a lot of work, and perhaps something we should focus on once things are a bit more stable and the workload is less massive.
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Understandable
but i guess i will suggest waiting to see what position we are in when Ant does leave and then consider this idea in the future and if it really does turn out to be more than we can handle then we shouldn't add it but i think that was Lord K's idea when he first asked for opinion on this
but i guess i will suggest waiting to see what position we are in when Ant does leave and then consider this idea in the future and if it really does turn out to be more than we can handle then we shouldn't add it but i think that was Lord K's idea when he first asked for opinion on this
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I have talked with Lord Kavpeny, and while I continue to remain apprehensive, given the size of this project, I don't mind the infobox as such. I would recommend that this project be initiated first when and if the staff is truly up for the challenge, and then at least 3 months down the line.
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- Thread starter
- #60
@The Living Tribunal1: Thanks.
@The Everlasting: I appreciate the support. I will add the source code to the standard format pages, once it's ready for usage.
@KamiYasha: An excellent proposal, one that I had foolishly overlooked. Yeah, I'll revise the infobox such that it is capable of the tabber function.
@EliminatorVenom: Thank you, and that's a good idea. Thing is, behaviour is a subjective field, and people will like hold different opinions regarding it. I think it is best if behaviour is stated before every VS thread, so that it is automatically a case-by-case thing.
@Nibbler3100: No, for now, please continue with the current profile format. There are several under-the-hood kinks which need to be straightened out, before the new format can actually be utilized. I will inform the community when the project will be ready to go into action.
@FanofRPGs: No, please continue with the current profile format.
@Darkness552:
ThePerpetual: Your opinion is appreciated, and your concern is noted.
@697086: Agreed, which is why when the profile is ready for usage, I will insert the code into the standard profile format, so as to make things far easier. It is really like the tabber function, in that aspect. Simply copy-paste the source code, and you will be good to go.
@Unclechairma: Thank you for an honest opinion, and your sincere explanation.
Yes, I can see how the "Alignment" can be a problem, given that it is a subjective field. Perhaps a compromise? Something like (with respect to Beerus): "Alignment: Neutral or Evil (subjective)".
How does that sound?
@The Wandering Shepherd: What Darkness552 said.
@Heinsk: Thank you!
@Sheoth: Thank you for the opinion. Your concern is noted. Though Unclechairma makes a fine point. With the right amount of delegation, even the largest of tasks can be accomplished. And I thank you, Darkness552, for finally getting what I'm saying.
@Azathoth: There are several other projects which have a higher priority, true. I will flesh them out soon enough, and delegate every Admin a project. I would appreciate it if you guys would focus on that first.
@everyone: Hmm...I started this thread as a suggestion idea. However, everybody (save a few exceptions) seems to be discussing is not the format and suggestions for it, but the viability of the implementation, and entirely redundant line of thinking, give that I have specifically mentioned THIS PROJECT'S IMPLEMENTATION WILL NOT BE INITIATED FOR A WHILE (give or take 3 months).
However, the only "objection" which keeps popping up, annoyingly frequently, is that the implementation will take "too much work". While it was initially something I had hoped would be overcome by delegation, I revised my opinion after re-considering the work-load of the Admins.
As such, the conclusion is this:
I will be going along with the implementation, likely in December, by myself. While the size of the project is certainly large, it is not insurmountable by any means. Staff members will have their own projects to deal with in the meantime, however, if they have completed their projects by that time, they are free to help out, entirely of their own volition.
I will neither ask, nor expect any help in regards to the conversion of profiles. Anybody who wants to help out at that time, is free to do so (in case of staff, only if the have finished their pre-assigned work) in accordance with the parameters I will set up before initializing the project.
I state that I will implement this project alone, not because I think the community at VS Battles wiki is incompetent by any means, but because I want everybody to know that they have no obligation in partaking the work-load of the profile conversion project, and all their actions regarding the project will be their own personal choice.
P.S.: I do not want people to start volunteering for the prohect in this thread itself. The volunteering thread will be made in Dcember. Until then, please continue to discuss on this thread only what was intended to be discussed: Suggestions for improvement of the infobox profile format.
@The Everlasting: I appreciate the support. I will add the source code to the standard format pages, once it's ready for usage.
@KamiYasha: An excellent proposal, one that I had foolishly overlooked. Yeah, I'll revise the infobox such that it is capable of the tabber function.
@EliminatorVenom: Thank you, and that's a good idea. Thing is, behaviour is a subjective field, and people will like hold different opinions regarding it. I think it is best if behaviour is stated before every VS thread, so that it is automatically a case-by-case thing.
@Nibbler3100: No, for now, please continue with the current profile format. There are several under-the-hood kinks which need to be straightened out, before the new format can actually be utilized. I will inform the community when the project will be ready to go into action.
@FanofRPGs: No, please continue with the current profile format.
@Darkness552:
ThePerpetual: Your opinion is appreciated, and your concern is noted.
@697086: Agreed, which is why when the profile is ready for usage, I will insert the code into the standard profile format, so as to make things far easier. It is really like the tabber function, in that aspect. Simply copy-paste the source code, and you will be good to go.
@Unclechairma: Thank you for an honest opinion, and your sincere explanation.
Yes, I can see how the "Alignment" can be a problem, given that it is a subjective field. Perhaps a compromise? Something like (with respect to Beerus): "Alignment: Neutral or Evil (subjective)".
How does that sound?
@The Wandering Shepherd: What Darkness552 said.
@Heinsk: Thank you!
@Sheoth: Thank you for the opinion. Your concern is noted. Though Unclechairma makes a fine point. With the right amount of delegation, even the largest of tasks can be accomplished. And I thank you, Darkness552, for finally getting what I'm saying.
@Azathoth: There are several other projects which have a higher priority, true. I will flesh them out soon enough, and delegate every Admin a project. I would appreciate it if you guys would focus on that first.
@everyone: Hmm...I started this thread as a suggestion idea. However, everybody (save a few exceptions) seems to be discussing is not the format and suggestions for it, but the viability of the implementation, and entirely redundant line of thinking, give that I have specifically mentioned THIS PROJECT'S IMPLEMENTATION WILL NOT BE INITIATED FOR A WHILE (give or take 3 months).
However, the only "objection" which keeps popping up, annoyingly frequently, is that the implementation will take "too much work". While it was initially something I had hoped would be overcome by delegation, I revised my opinion after re-considering the work-load of the Admins.
As such, the conclusion is this:
I will be going along with the implementation, likely in December, by myself. While the size of the project is certainly large, it is not insurmountable by any means. Staff members will have their own projects to deal with in the meantime, however, if they have completed their projects by that time, they are free to help out, entirely of their own volition.
I will neither ask, nor expect any help in regards to the conversion of profiles. Anybody who wants to help out at that time, is free to do so (in case of staff, only if the have finished their pre-assigned work) in accordance with the parameters I will set up before initializing the project.
I state that I will implement this project alone, not because I think the community at VS Battles wiki is incompetent by any means, but because I want everybody to know that they have no obligation in partaking the work-load of the profile conversion project, and all their actions regarding the project will be their own personal choice.
P.S.: I do not want people to start volunteering for the prohect in this thread itself. The volunteering thread will be made in Dcember. Until then, please continue to discuss on this thread only what was intended to be discussed: Suggestions for improvement of the infobox profile format.
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"Yes, I can see how the "Alignment" can be a problem, given that it is a subjective field. Perhaps a compromise? Something like (with respect to Beerus): "Alignment: Neutral or Evil (subjective)"."
This sounds like it should work just fine.
And not a problem, Kav. If you think we're up to it, I'd be willing to cover any pages I've added here and more.
This sounds like it should work just fine.
And not a problem, Kav. If you think we're up to it, I'd be willing to cover any pages I've added here and more.
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"Alignment: Uncertain" could work, too.
We await our designated tasks, Kav. I do feel more comfortable with making big changes knowing that you have projects planned out, which should help each of us narrow things down and make the whole process a lot more smooth.
We await our designated tasks, Kav. I do feel more comfortable with making big changes knowing that you have projects planned out, which should help each of us narrow things down and make the whole process a lot more smooth.
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Wow, can't believe i missed something like this.
Well for me i'm actually kind of like Skodwarde here: Like on one hand, i like the idea of possibly doing something like this and i actually wouldn't mind even doing any profile to look like any other wikias infobox format.
On the other hand, however, i actucally like to keep things the way they are here and at the FC/OC site: "plain and simple".
Well for me i'm actually kind of like Skodwarde here: Like on one hand, i like the idea of possibly doing something like this and i actually wouldn't mind even doing any profile to look like any other wikias infobox format.
On the other hand, however, i actucally like to keep things the way they are here and at the FC/OC site: "plain and simple".
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I support the new character format change.
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- Thread starter
- #66
@ThePerpetual: I do not think for a second that members are not upto the task. I am simply denouncing any official responsibility of any member towards the project, when it will be implemented. A disclaimer, if you will.
@Azathoth: I sincerely thank you for your trusting me. I do have the projects planned out, I am currently sorting which roles have to be performed by which category of members (eg: Admins will handle part X of project A, while Mods will handle Y, etc.). Given how many different groups we have on the wiki, efficiently delegating is a tricky process, hence I am being patient with it.
Also, some information:
@Dekoshu: Succintly formulated, my friend. Any suggestions for improvement?
@Hiwatari69: Thank you for the support.
@Azathoth: I sincerely thank you for your trusting me. I do have the projects planned out, I am currently sorting which roles have to be performed by which category of members (eg: Admins will handle part X of project A, while Mods will handle Y, etc.). Given how many different groups we have on the wiki, efficiently delegating is a tricky process, hence I am being patient with it.
Also, some information:
- The Wiki Projects thread will be uploaded soon, likely on 20th.
- There will be a thread on the staff board soon after, to assign the projects to the staff members.
@Dekoshu: Succintly formulated, my friend. Any suggestions for improvement?
@Hiwatari69: Thank you for the support.
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So what do I say to the topic?
Personally I would rather keep the vs-threads at the bottom of the page, as I don´t think they are very important for the page and sometimes require short explanations. Also the lists can theoretically become as long as they like which would stretch the box quite a bit.
One thing to keep in mind is that a bunch pages still have pictures that are centered at the top of the page and I think that just resizing them to keep the proper format would not work very well. So whoever makes the changes has to be capable of finding proper alternatives for the pictures and capable of cutting pictures with an image manipulation program if necessary.
I think that would be all from my side.
Personally I would rather keep the vs-threads at the bottom of the page, as I don´t think they are very important for the page and sometimes require short explanations. Also the lists can theoretically become as long as they like which would stretch the box quite a bit.
One thing to keep in mind is that a bunch pages still have pictures that are centered at the top of the page and I think that just resizing them to keep the proper format would not work very well. So whoever makes the changes has to be capable of finding proper alternatives for the pictures and capable of cutting pictures with an image manipulation program if necessary.
I think that would be all from my side.
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@Kavpeny Whenever we're ready, then.
...how would profile pictures be handled? Would there have to see some measure of standardization regarding size and whatnot? Just curious.
...how would profile pictures be handled? Would there have to see some measure of standardization regarding size and whatnot? Just curious.
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I like the new look, though, it's probably going to be tedious to revamp this for all the profiles so far....
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- Thread starter
- #70
@DontTalk: You make good points.
However, keeping the VS threads at the bottom is something I prefer not to do. It diminishes their importance, which I am personally fine with, but given the fact that the wiki is called "VS Battles", their priority must be increased.
I also agree that they might stretch too long, which is why I plan on making those sections collapsible (and in collapsed state by default).
Something like this:
As for the image resizing, I'm not sure about that.
I don't think the problem you're suggesting will occur. I just added the Superman image file to the image parameter in the infobox, without changing alignment or size, and it was visually the same, without any image distortion.
I'll definitely look into what you're saying, though, and confirm via testing before the infobox concept is implemented.
@ThePerpetual: I think the infobox has a default image size parameter, unless manually changed. Regardless, like I told DontTalk, I will confirm via testing before implementing. Once I have confirmed, I will inform the members.
@Dino Ranger Black: Agreed. At this point of time though, most, if not every change will be a tedious process. Doesn't mean we can simply give up, though, citing "too much work". In any case, the project is still far off, and with proper delegation, I think it won't be an issue.
However, keeping the VS threads at the bottom is something I prefer not to do. It diminishes their importance, which I am personally fine with, but given the fact that the wiki is called "VS Battles", their priority must be increased.
I also agree that they might stretch too long, which is why I plan on making those sections collapsible (and in collapsed state by default).
Something like this:
- VS Threads (Uncollapsed)
- Notable Victories (Collapsed)
- Notable Losses (Collapsed)
- Inconclusive Matches (Collapsed)
As for the image resizing, I'm not sure about that.
I don't think the problem you're suggesting will occur. I just added the Superman image file to the image parameter in the infobox, without changing alignment or size, and it was visually the same, without any image distortion.
I'll definitely look into what you're saying, though, and confirm via testing before the infobox concept is implemented.
@ThePerpetual: I think the infobox has a default image size parameter, unless manually changed. Regardless, like I told DontTalk, I will confirm via testing before implementing. Once I have confirmed, I will inform the members.
@Dino Ranger Black: Agreed. At this point of time though, most, if not every change will be a tedious process. Doesn't mean we can simply give up, though, citing "too much work". In any case, the project is still far off, and with proper delegation, I think it won't be an issue.
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