Chainsaw Man discussion thread

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

man, didn't get notified of any new messages since two days ago, bummer

anything new happened?

 

[AnimesFreak2]

It's pretty funny to think about it, but apparently a Brazilian's children book version of Death is a 100x more busted than CSM'S death.

Lil D is genuinely a bum

Can't even use her for vs debates since she is essentially featless and has more anti feats if anything

Could she be the worst representation of "the strongest" in a shonen manga ever?

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Lil D and the strongest in the same sentence...
Harmed by pre nuke yoru, fami, and got speedblitzed by the real strongest

 

[Bruh]

As much of a potential woman Lil D is, still would stomp potential man in a summoner fight

 

[Epiccheev]

Assuming Denji somehow saved the world and made everything and retained the Denjiman transformation in place of his regular one.
You think the government or Devil hunter headquarters would make him a captain or smth?
Like at this point they are pretty much powerless against him. They can try to use Asa against him, but his payback would be just as brutal. Would be silly to not have the world's strongest devil hunter on their side.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Big Raga got it

 

[Bruh]

Big Raga got it

Bro's depressed ass is Hell's plaything the second the fight start

 

[Breadbear83]

Assuming Denji somehow saved the world and made everything and retained the Denjiman transformation in place of his regular one.
You think the government or Devil hunter headquarters would make him a captain or smth?
Like at this point they are pretty much powerless against him. They can try to use Asa against him, but his payback would be just as brutal. Would be silly to not have the world's strongest devil hunter on their side.

Denji wouldn't want shit from them at this point, with he likely being in a relationship with Asa, pulling up some Fumiko wouldn't make him follow them in any plan

They may request him Famis plan of the hearth transplant (with no way to force him to) but Denji would stiller want to be Chainsaw Man

He'd be that guy that would only be called for a mission only he could finish, like if a primal devil attacked earth, which so far, falling and aging devil were related to Chainsaw Man so more likely


If Kishibe is still working for public safety, he could be the one trying to talk to Denji

(In Part 2 Public safety was making desperate decisions due to the prophecy, they would chill out a bit)

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Denji wouldn't want shit from them at this point, with he likely being in a relationship with Asa, pulling up some Fumiko wouldn't make him follow them in any plan

They may request him Famis plan of the hearth transplant (with no way to force him to) but Denji would stiller want to be Chainsaw Man

He'd be that guy that would only be called for a mission only he could finish, like if a primal devil attacked earth, which so far, falling and aging devil were related to Chainsaw Man so more likely


If Kishibe is still working for public safety, he could be the one trying to talk to Denji

(In Part 2 Public safety was making desperate decisions due to the prophecy, they would chill out a bit)

Bro had sex with a fumiko clone and forgot his existence

 

[GunshyFever]

1st, they give him all his modulo stuf but don't show him at all fighting like his modulo self. he indiscriminately used dismantles and cleave all the time when he fought but they have him needing to touch things to use shrine like it's the shinjuku showdown, only making ranged slashes when he's in his domain and he shouldn't need to do thwt since the domain does the surehit for him.

I think that was mostly done for entertainment and recognizability. Yuji is known for h2h combat, so they probably wanted the fight to feel like "Yuji" instead of having him spam Dismantles and Cleaves the entire time. Same reason they used his more familiar outfit rather than going all in on the Modulo look.

2nd, they just let denji heal off Yuji's blood despite it being extremely posionous to humans and curses with zero affects. his whole blood manipulation, besides attaching his arm, was completely sidelined. no piercing blood shotgun that he made casually that covers a skyscraper, no firing a tiny speck ot blood to poison denji. nothing.

They allowed him to heal from Denji's blood due to upscaling from the Violence Fiend's feat, among other reasons that were placed in the black box. There was a lot he could potentially do with his PB, but it was likely sidelined because they made it clear that it is ineffective against Denji (Man), both due to resistance and speed. They likely wanted to focus on his other abilities within his Domain Expansion.

3rd, and the thing that really ticked me off, is how they basically let Yuji pull off his wincon, his soul targing domain, that provides nothing but a scenery change and 20 black flashes, all of which amp him by 120% (pretty much everyone agrees that the black flash amp stacks with their being numerous statements and showings that it stacks, one being from fricking sukuna) while he's also amped by his domain. i thought it was fine how they said that they said pochita and denji can recombine. i agreed as it happen in story. however, the nature of them separating is completely different here as yuji not only separates them biologically (yes, yuji can separate things biologically. Sukuna literally morphed his entire body to biologically have his heian era body and Yuji's final black flash had his extra limbs falling off megumi) but spiritually and they've never once in csm healed the soul so idc how cool it was to see Denjiman walk through shrine like big raga, it ain't happening. also, again, they had Yuji's domain not just constantly rain down soul dismantles but have them be something Yuji has to activate with handsign when that's not at all jow domains work.

Death Battle kinda goes over this and explains why using soul targeting to specifically separate Denji and Pochita would not work here:


They also had Denji's durability massively above Yuji's slashes by millions of times. So I think the Black Flash chain was mainly there to show off Yuji's abilities and skilled fighting style, rather than to imply he was closing the entire stat gap. I do think they showed Yuji getting stronger in the domain, but I do not think they were trying to say Black Flash would amp him all the way to Denji's level, especially when their own scaling had the physical gap being that large.

As for the soul damage point, I still think it becomes unfair to automatically apply soul mechanics to a verse that does not explicitly have those same mechanics. If a character does not come from a verse with established soul rules/existence, then I think it is fair to judge soul based attacks through AP and durability instead of treating them as a "**** your durability, I one shot because you don't have soul mechanics". That seems to be what Death Battle did by treating Denji and Pochita's soul resistance as relative to their physical durability. And by extension I do not believe that we should not regard every verse as having souls unless stated otherwise.

And Yuji manually activating things inside his domain was probably just for visual presentation and entertainment. I agree it is not exactly how domains normally work, but I do not think it is a huge issue unless we are treating the animation as a perfect breakdown.

 

[Bruh]

Yeah most people tend to forget that the fights and animations are mosty just for show and entertainment, the result of a fight is pretty set in stone and would realistically end the moment the fight start

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I'll respond to the rest later, just going to the points that grabbed my attention

I think that was mostly done for entertainment and recognizability. Yuji is known for h2h combat, so they probably wanted the fight to feel like "Yuji" instead of having him spam Dismantles and Cleaves the entire time. Same reason they used his more familiar outfit rather than going all in on the Modulo look.

honestly, idgaf if it's cuz "reconizability". it's not Modulo Yuji and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth as JJK Fan when they're not having him fight actual modulo yuji.
if they wanna go through the effort of animating the fight and having the exact models for denjiman and pochita, the same effort should be extended to Yuji and be given his modulo look and how modular yuji fights

As for the soul damage point, I still think it becomes unfair to automatically apply soul mechanics to a verse that does not explicitly have those same mechanics. If a character does not come from a verse with established soul rules/existence, then I think it is fair to judge soul based attacks through AP and durability instead of treating them as a "**** your durability, I one shot because you don't have soul mechanics". That seems to be what Death Battle did by treating Denji and Pochita's soul resistance as relative to their physical durability. And by extension I do not believe that we should not regard every verse as having souls unless stated otherwise.

1st, it doesn't matter what you think it's fair when you genueniely believe Denji millions of times stronger and thousands of times faster with Yuji having, according to you, zero wincons. I don't think it's fair to ignore Yuji's best hax cuz it's "unfair" for the guy with high-mid regen, oregon level power, and existence erasure.
2nd, literally every verse is assumed to have souls. it's been that way on this site forever and a thing matchups. This ain't the first time DB had soul shenanigans close a gap exceedingly big.
Plus, if we assume Denji has cursed energy to be able to be caught in a domain, which he is in the animation and is something we've given in matchups otherwise it'd be boring, then we can assume he has a soul to be cut down

 

[Zabazab]

Wtf Denji was in a public safety uniform why are they not using Part 2 Denji???

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Wtf Denji was in a public safety uniform why are they not using Part 2 Denji???

also upset about that. also upset how they had him do the Nutcracker 9000 when he hasn't done that post training, iirc.
Ik peeps will just not read and think I'm just a yuji glazer but i literally state i think denji wins more often then not. I'm just upset they didn't do my goat nor denji justice

 

[NikHelton]

also upset about that. also upset how they had him do the Nutcracker 9000 when he hasn't done that post training, iirc.
Ik peeps will just not read and think I'm just a yuji glazer but i literally state i think denji wins more often then not. I'm just upset they didn't do my goat nor denji justice

Death Battle has always had balance issues.
For example, they gave Kratos a massive superluminal speed boost to give him the ability to fight Asura. However, they ignored the same speed calculation method for Dante, because otherwise Clive wouldn't have had a chance of winning.
I don't agree with Gojo's 6-C earthquake or Kenjaku's High 7-A, but if you're going to jack Denji to Origon, even though hitting a 6-C object doesn't make you a 6-C, then you should have inflated Yuji's stats as well.

 

[Bruh]

also upset about that. also upset how they had him do the Nutcracker 9000 when he hasn't done that post training, iirc.
Ik peeps will just not read and think I'm just a yuji glazer but i literally state i think denji wins more often then not. I'm just upset they didn't do my goat nor denji justice

You know that's a completely fair and valid take. I also think compared to Denji, they couldve portray Yuji better to match his personality or growth

 

[GunshyFever]

honestly, idgaf if it's cuz "reconizability". it's not Modulo Yuji and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth as JJK Fan when they're not having him fight actual modulo yuji.
if they wanna go through the effort of animating the fight and having the exact models for denjiman and pochita, the same effort should be extended to Yuji and be given his modulo look and how modular yuji fights

To me it doesn't really make much of a difference. I get wanting full on Modulo Yuji but the fight was clearly going for a more recognizable and entertaining version of Yuji rather than strictly sticking to one exact design or fighting style, that's Death Battles rule of cool M.O. Modulo Yuji fighting with his hands in his pockets while spamming AOE dismantles or chanted dismantles would be accurate, but it could also get boring pretty quickly in an animated fight like DB. A more physical fight with Black Flash chains, Shrine and close quarters combat lets Yuji show off more of his overall kit and fighting style.

Plus, this was not only done with Yuji. Denji was still in his Public Safety uniform even though Part 2 Denji usually wears a blazer over a sleeveless shirt and slacks, they also had him fighting the Part 1 Bat Devil, the fight was clearly mixing recognizable elements instead of being 100% strict to the latest versions. I don't blame you for wanting to see full Modulo Yuji in action, but personally I think what we got was fine, maybe even better for the animation.

1st, it doesn't matter what you think it's fair when you genueniely believe Denji millions of times stronger and thousands of times faster with Yuji having, according to you, zero wincons. I don't think it's fair to ignore Yuji's best hax cuz it's "unfair" for the guy with high-mid regen, oregon level power, and existence erasure.

According to DB*
But I honestly get you here, though in reality the fight is kinda stompy and not close. I don't wanna sound like I'm favoring a side, but with the statistics we have now that's what it's pointing towards.

2nd, literally every verse is assumed to have souls. it's been that way on this site forever and a thing matchups. This ain't the first time DB had soul shenanigans close a gap exceedingly big.
Plus, if we assume Denji has cursed energy to be able to be caught in a domain, which he is in the animation and is something we've given in matchups otherwise it'd be boring, then we can assume he has a soul to be cut down

The point being is that the technicality of soul shenanigans is complex, but I understand your point and I'll give it to you, I just wanted to point out that DB probably took Yuji's dismantles as only being capable of separating souls, while also giving the soul the durability of the physical body.

 

[GunshyFever]

also upset how they had him do the Nutcracker 9000 when he hasn't done that post training, iirc.

Why would he stop doing that? It's completely in character, as well as humorous. That's just him aiming for weak spots as he always does in character, in reality he'd just Katana Man him right then and there.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Death Battle has always had balance issues.
For example, they gave Kratos a massive superluminal speed boost to give him the ability to fight Asura. However, they ignored the same speed calculation method for Dante, because otherwise Clive wouldn't have had a chance of winning.
I don't agree with Gojo's 6-C earthquake or Kenjaku's High 7-A, but if you're going to jack Denji to Origon, even though hitting a 6-C object doesn't make you a 6-C, then you should have inflated Yuji's stats as well.

see, you get it. they gave the lowest estimates of Yuji against high end denji.
it felt so unfair compled with everything else

 

[Bruh]

but if you're going to jack Denji to Origon, even though hitting a 6-C object doesn't make you a 6-C,

Im still a bit mad thet completely skipped over Falling's feat, sure they wouldve wanked it like always but at least the scaling is a lot more concrete (Pochita=Yoru who overpowered Falling gravity) over the State sword. And Denji would still have the AP adv regardless

 

[GunshyFever]

see, you get it. they gave the lowest estimates of Yuji against high end denji.
it felt so unfair compled with everything else

That is what I said, at the very beginning.

He won because he out-statted Yuji, which is valid even here. What you mean to say is that you're upset with the Oregon scaling I figure?

I figure you just wanted to see Modulo Yuji in design and in-fighting style which is fair.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Im still a bit mad thet completely skipped over Falling's feat, sure they wouldve wanked it like always but at least the scaling is a lot more concrete (Pochita=Yoru who overpowered Falling gravity) over the State sword. And Denji would still have the AP adv regardless

that's fine, he was always. no one genuinely thinks Yuji's realistically planet level, universal, 5D or wherever the fake higher end peeps have him at, but the matchup would've worked a lot better and be more fun if they were both island. As I've stated be fore and will say again, i say denji wins 6/10 times, but a matchup is zero fun if an opp genuinely stomps

 

[Bruh]

that's fine, he was always. no one genuinely thinks Yuji's realistically planet level, universal, 5D or wherever the fake higher end peeps have him at, but the matchup would've worked a lot better and be more fun if they were both island. As I've stated be fore and will say again, i say denji wins 6/10 times, but a matchup is zero fun if an opp genuinely stomps

* Flashback to Deku vs Miles *

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

That is what I said, at the very beginning.

you're gonna argue Denji's tier 5 in the future. Personally felt you would've had denji stomp anyway so me complaining about it useless nor did you really think that their stats were odd

I figure you just wanted to see Modulo Yuji in design and in-fighting style which is fair.

i do. the whole fun of modulo yuji is tjat, unlike sukuna who toys with his opponents, he treats everything like cleanup so he's there to get shit done

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

* Flashback to Deku vs Miles *

man, deku peeps didn't want that and said from day one it's a stomp. it's only the comic peeps who said miles got it and started slandering deku for winning against a "street tier" they sweore was omniversal

 

[GunshyFever]

you're gonna argue Denji's tier 5 in the future. Personally felt you would've had denji stomp anyway so me complaining about it useless nor did you really think that their stats were odd

Dunno where you got Tier 5 from, but Tier 6 is where I want us to be. And we will get there, just not in durability of which should be higher in Tier 7 when I get everything sorted out.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Dunno where you got Tier 5 from, but Tier 6 is where I want us to be. And we will get there, just not in durability of which should be higher in Tier 7 when I get everything sorted out.

arkenis and za were talking about tier 5 from hell flood

 

[Bruh]

Lets be honest if Gunshy wanted tier 5 CSM, we woudve gotten that already after 5 years of waiting for votes

 

[GunshyFever]

arkenis and za were talking about tier 5 from hell flood

The foundation for that "feat" is near non existent. How do we know that it wasn't that specific portion of Hell that was flooded. Hell in of itself is a vast dimension with multiple departments. If I ever thought to go for Tier 5, I wouldn't be looking in that direction.

 

[Zabazab]

When have I ever mentioned the Hell sea. That's like looking at the atlantic ocean and scaling it to someone.

 

[GunshyFever]

The locust devil was only strong because he sacrificed the lives of 100 insects and his pregnant mother.

 

[Bruh]

7-B+ Physicals and Possibly tier 6 with weapons is the highest i'll see CSM for now, at least until someone comes up with a revolutionary calc method or argument

 

[NikHelton]

see, you get it. they gave the lowest estimates of Yuji against high end denji.
it felt so unfair compled with everything else

They often resort to this when they need to make a character lose. Just remember the fight between Dio and Alucard, where they jacked off hundreds of kilotons of energy from Jolin's feat with tennis-ball-sized meteorites because they overestimated the meteorites' speed by a factor of 1,000. But they completely ignored Alucard's feat with the fog and Blood River. I'd prefer if they were more selective or used the highest-end calculations, because otherwise it's a double standard.

 

[GunshyFever]

 

[Epiccheev]

arkenis and za were talking about tier 5 from hell flood

Nah, it's just farming engagement with clickbait

 

[Breadbear83]

If the USA president made a desperate contract with the USA Gun Devil (20%) to kill Makima (who all nations surrendered to her) for 1 year of all the population, why wouldn't he have all of Gun Devil go to her?

Also I don't think they literally have parts of Gun Devil in the statue of liberty, it's some weird shit of the enhanced, weaponized 28% gun devil she got, that 28% is from Russia too, unrelated to USA, the contractors that were used for Gun Goddess may had done a contract with the whole gun devil, letting other countries parts use them as a weapon by contract

I hardly get to believe that the 20% Gun devil, with arms, head and near complete torso is also just 20% of his body, wouldn't 100% just have some legs? Maybe some more guns on the arms for greater aura and 3 heads or smth

 

[Breadbear83]

If the USA president made a desperate contract with the USA Gun Devil (20%) to kill Makima (who all nations surrendered to her) for 1 year of all the population, why wouldn't he have all of Gun Devil go to her?

Also I don't think they literally have parts of Gun Devil in the statue of liberty, it's some weird shit of the enhanced, weaponized 28% gun devil she got, that 28% is from Russia too, unrelated to USA, the contractors that were used for Gun Goddess may had done a contract with the whole gun devil, letting other countries parts use them as a weapon by contract

I hardly get to believe that the 20% Gun devil, with arms, head and near complete torso is also just 20% of his body, wouldn't 100% just have some legs? Maybe some more guns on the arms for greater aura and 3 heads or smth

Also those bullets belts he has, are so long that I think would be longer than his hypothetical legs, maybe his 100% form has more bullet belts resembling a cute dress

 

[Zabazab]

I don't think the Gun Goddess is the Gun Devil, but a weaponification.

 

[Epiccheev]

A Godess is the opposite of a Devil, therefore it's a reverse cursed technique.

 

[Kooliooooo]

quick question, why do we upscale mid tiers such as post training denji and co to the 440 tons from snake devil?