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Chainsaw Man discussion thread

CiscoTheSoto said:
I'm glad to see there's someone on this site who agrees with me. It feels completely arbitrary and irrelevant: the only reason authors would ever add those stars and planets in the sky is because it's just necessary to maintain the visuals. People don't want to see a black empty space, and I'm positive the authors never draw those stars or planets with the mindset of "that means they're strong enough to create entire stars and solar systems."
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This, but still not the worst thing ever. What I hate the most is the AP =! DC when a character throws their strongest, most amped punch ever and created a small hole in the wall but received "City level" or whatever bs just because they upscales from 39018340148014801 other characters who upscales from that one-time feat from a character who either did off-screen or is their ultimate attack. This was all caused by the lil shii named "Universal Energy System".

Like if it was a really fast bullet like Yoru's I'd understand (given said bullet left a white hole visually in the building), but a freaking punch?
CiscoTheSoto said:
But at least with CSM, we don't have to worry about that... for now...
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GunshyFever said:
Make that, ever.
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Good to not have a universal energy system, that way we can have as many insane pocket reality creation feats as possible without ever caring about whether it applies into AP or not. And even better Chainsaw Man took piercing and slashing power seriously.


What I love the most is how well Fujimoto can make a speed feat impressive. Like man 1290810381038 other verses got to MHS+++ thanks to that one "lightning dodging feat" carrying the whole verse, or worse when a character dodged a "beam" resembling light and the whole verse upscales to FTL+++++++ (and of course any types of bullets the characters can't dodge is clearly FTL++++++++++++++++++++++++++++), meanwhile in Csm it be like "look at this massive monstrosity zooming around the world in 5 minutes and commit mass destructions!" or "Look at this monstrosity coming out of the statue of Liberty and shoot a bullet all the way to Japan in an instant!".
 
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Shouldnt Yoru with the Right Gun Gauntlet have MHS+ attack speed via upscaling from the 20% Gun Devil ? Pretty consistent with how it caught Pochita off guard
 
Bruh said:
Given her fear scaling, shouldnt Makima scale to the Octopus Devil's LS
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Normally yes, but Octopus/Yoshida is a total anomaly and the feat was a one-off before Pochita ate it anywho.

It'd be like scaling Kishibe above Fumiko's durability given his Strongest Devil Hunter statement. If Fumiko was normal, sure, but she very clearly isn't.
 
Acertainbcplayer said:
This, but still not the worst thing ever. What I hate the most is the AP =! DC when a character throws their strongest, most amped punch ever and created a small hole in the wall but received "City level" or whatever bs just because they upscales from 39018340148014801 other characters who upscales from that one-time feat from a character who either did off-screen or is their ultimate attack. This was all caused by the lil shii named "Universal Energy System".
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Yeah, it feels ridiculous, especially when there is no universal energy system in the story. If you’re gonna have comparable AP, then show physical feats that prove they can deal massive damage.
Acertainbcplayer said:
Good to not have a universal energy system, that way we can have as many insane pocket reality creation feats as possible without ever caring about whether it applies into AP or not. And even better Chainsaw Man took piercing and slashing power seriously.
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Agreed. I’m glad nobody here has brought up the idea of upgrading based on Aging’s Pocket Dimension (I pray that doesn’t change).
Acertainbcplayer said:
What I love the most is how well Fujimoto can make a speed feat impressive. Like man 1290810381038 other verses got to MHS+++ thanks to that one "lightning dodging feat" carrying the whole verse, or worse when a character dodged a "beam" resembling light and the whole verse upscales to FTL+++++++ (and of course any types of bullets the characters can't dodge is clearly FTL++++++++++++++++++++++++++++), meanwhile in Csm it be like "look at this massive monstrosity zooming around the world in 5 minutes and commit mass destructions!" or "Look at this monstrosity coming out of the statue of Liberty and shoot a bullet all the way to Japan in an instant!".
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100% agreed on this one. Lightning and light feats are the two banes of unjustified speed ratings. It’s why I’m pissed at the MHA Speed ratings based on the radio waves dodging feat even though I’m sure Horikoshi or the animators never knew how fast radio waves actually are. I was pleasantly surprised to see JJK speed ratings stay below Hypersonic and that Gege made hard limits & statements on what characters could do. They almost used Kashimo to upgrade the heavily hitters on this site, but ultimately decided to respect the limits set by Gege and downgraded the speed, as they should have.

But like you said, in CSM there are very clear speed feats that show you the characters CAN move that fast and it isn’t an exaggeration conjured up by fans.
 
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CiscoTheSoto said:
Agreed. I’m glad nobody here has brought up the idea of upgrading based on Aging’s Pocket Dimension (I pray that doesn’t change).
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I mean there was the Mountain level Planet Creation calc, but that got jossed. Still hilarious to me though.
CiscoTheSoto said:
100% agreed on this one. Lightning and light feats are the two banes of unjustified speed ratings. It’s why I’m pissed at the MHA Speed ratings based on the radio waves dodging feat even though I’m sure Horikoshi or the animators never knew how fast radio waves actually are.
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The thing about MHA is that there's legitimately good speed feats there besides laser dodging- Midoriya blatantly notes that he could cross a couple hundred kilometers almost immediately at full speed- It’s just overshadowed.
 
Regarding the latest CRT, when it came to scaling Post-weakening Denji to Amped Yuko to the 8B+ PS suits. Couldnt we just have Denji be 8C with his physicals and 8B+ with chainsaws and make it so that amped Yuko doesnt have a fluctuating power level depending on her sense of justice. In ch 109, the saws were strong enough to cut into a fully "justiced" and enraged Yuko who attacked Denji before he turned into Chainsaw Man, so her power shouldnt really dropped at that ppint without prior knowledge of his identity. Iirc, Denji never took a hit nor hurt her without his chainsaws, so him being 8C with 8B saws still works, would also be consistent with how Falling could effortlessly butchered Denji physicals, but his saws are so far above him that it could easily cut into her.
 
Bruh said:
Regarding the latest CRT, when it came to scaling Post-weakening Denji to Amped Yuko to the 8B+ PS suits. Couldnt we just have Denji be 8C with his physicals and 8B+ with chainsaws and make it so that amped Yuko doesnt have a fluctuating power level depending on her sense of justice. In ch 109, the saws were strong enough to cut into a fully "justiced" and enraged Yuko who attacked Denji before he turned into Chainsaw Man, so her power shouldnt really dropped at that ppint without prior knowledge of his identity. Iirc, Denji never took a hit nor hurt her without his chainsaws, so him being 8C with 8B saws still works, would also be consistent with how Falling could effortlessly butchered Denji physicals, but his saws are so far above him that it could easily cut into her.
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No, because it's just too much of a gap; his chainsaws weren't literally ~100x more damaging than his physicals before- see them breaking against Katana Man in their 2nd fight.

And while there is that issue, it's still the best explanation for Yuko's differences in performances; its not just the Denji fight where her strength notably varies.
 
ElajRuengies said:
No, because it's just too much of a gap; his chainsaws weren't literally ~100x more damaging than his physicals before- see them breaking against Katana Man in their 2nd fight.

And while there is that issue, it's still the best explanation for Yuko's differences in performances; its not just the Denji fight where her strength notably varies.
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What about his saws cutting into an enraged Yuko who attacked Denji before knowing of his identity as Chainsaw man? Are we to assume her sense of justice immediately dropped from 8B to 8C in those few panels ?
 
Bruh said:
What about his saws cutting into an enraged Yuko who attacked Denji before knowing of his identity as Chainsaw man? Are we to assume her sense of justice immediately dropped from 8B to 8C in those few panels ?
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I acknowledged that the inconsistency exists,
ElajRuengies said:
And while there is that issue, it's still the best explanation for Yuko's differences in performances; its not just the Denji fight where her strength notably varies.
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-but it's still a better explanation than Denji's chainsaws are two orders of magnitude more damaging than his physicals, in that it causes the least amount of problems with scaling overall.
 
ElajRuengies said:
I acknowledged that the inconsistency exists,

-but it's still a better explanation than Denji's chainsaws are two orders of magnitude more damaging than his physicals, in that it causes the least amount of problems with scaling overall.
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Ig i can work with that if it's the necessary evil keeping the scaling chain from imploding on itself
 
Bruh said:
Ig i can work with that if it's the necessary evil keeping the scaling chain from imploding on itself
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Thank you. Believe me, I've thought of every other possibility, and they all cause more issues.
Option 1: Denji's chainsaws are just that sharp.

Problem: Part 1 Katana Man's katanas can clash with them in his fight with Post-Training Denji (who should be stronger than Post-Weakening Denji), and even break them, meaning Part 1 Katana Man's katanas are also at least City Block level+, except that he explicitly can't break PS Uniforms while Yuko can.

Option 2: Pochita's weakening/Fear Scaling doesn't affect Hybrids, so Denji's still City Block level+ from his Post-Reze Fight or Post-Broadcast Key.

Problem: Makima directly cites fear levels and chainsaw man being depowered during the Graveyard Fight when she thinks she's facing Denji, meaning fear scaling does apply to Hybrids. Also the biggest justification for Denji suddenly jumping to City Block level+ in the first place was fear scaling from his existence being leaked to the public, if that didn't affect Denji, then it'd mean weekly training with Kishibe alone somehow octupled his strength in like a month.

Option 3: Denji's just improved by an absolute ton in the months of time between Part 1 and Part 2 doing vigilante work, meaning he's back to City Block level+ from his Post-Reze Fight Key and has effectively compensated for the loss of fear-strength with power of push-ups, sit-ups, and plenty of juice.

Problem: While it's likely he got stronger, not to mention some of the praise of Chainsaw Man probably subsided, Barem directly references in Ch. 170 how Chainsaw Man being praised a hero was a hinderance to the Church's plans, before his infamous [everyday fears like Sickness and Aging] statement, meaning the fear-nerf was still significant, so he couldn't have closed that gap between parts. Also six keys for Denji's profile would enter bloat territory, and it'd make the Super Chainsaw Bike City Block level+ despite Asa not feeling bad at all for making it.
 
On that note, it's crazy to think that Revived Yuko at her peak is the physically strongest application of "Fami" abilities we've seen so far while the Weakened Falling Devil was not. IDK what she did to Yuko but it's clearly different from her main ability to take over things she kills
 
Bruh said:
Regarding the latest CRT, when it came to scaling Post-weakening Denji to Amped Yuko to the 8B+ PS suits. Couldnt we just have Denji be 8C with his physicals and 8B+ with chainsaws and make it so that amped Yuko doesnt have a fluctuating power level depending on her sense of justice. In ch 109, the saws were strong enough to cut into a fully "justiced" and enraged Yuko who attacked Denji before he turned into Chainsaw Man, so her power shouldnt really dropped at that ppint without prior knowledge of his identity. Iirc, Denji never took a hit nor hurt her without his chainsaws, so him being 8C with 8B saws still works, would also be consistent with how Falling could effortlessly butchered Denji physicals, but his saws are so far above him that it could easily cut into her.
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Some explanations I've considered for the 8-B Yuko scaling issue are that the two Devil Hunters she killed weren't from Public Safety but merely private devil hunters who wore suits, or the suits they were wearing weren't up-to-date and weren't as durable as they could've been. Not the cleanest explanation, but could help rectify the current scaling.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
Some explanations I've considered for the 8-B Yuko scaling issue are that the two Devil Hunters she killed weren't from Public Safety but merely private devil hunters who wore suits, or the suits they were wearing weren't up-to-date and weren't as durable as they could've been. Not the cleanest explanation, but could help rectify the current scaling.
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Could have worked, but the issue is that we we're informed that the Devil Hunters were arriving shortly after Yuko's persuit. Although, I don't see the scaling issue considering Yuko's resolve, decapitated as soon as she saw chainsaw man.
 
Bruh said:
On that note, it's crazy to think that Revived Yuko at her peak is the physically strongest application of "Fami" abilities we've seen so far while the Weakened Falling Devil was not. IDK what she did to Yuko but it's clearly different from her main ability to take over things she kills
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Anything for her little sister after all.

Side note, but going back through the Speed Calcs since the Speed CRT's in development, and I noticed that the Quickdraw Calc assumes Katana Man swung a 180 degree arc / semicircle.

Now, I'm not an expert fencer or anything, but that seems like a lot? Like, I'm trying to think of any configuration that would result in someone's sword going from pointing all the way behind them to all the way in front of them. Especially when the swords are duct-taped to the swinger's arms.
 
Zabazab said:
Katana Man swings both arms like a breast-stroke, which does seem like a semi-circle at a glance.
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GunshyFever said:
It's how he usually does the dash as well, for example, against Aki.
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Looking back through his many Shift + L2's, I guess it's close enough, although I think his sword arm's longer than it should be in the calc due to it being closer to the camera.
 
Should all Primals really scale to Sub-rel ? Ik Aging does but how do we know his speed is the baseline for all Primals, there may be a hierarchy within the Primals and Aging might just be really fast even among them. At the very least, they all should upscale from the 100% Gun Devil attack speed due to being transcending and all, but Yoru's Sub-Rel feat was a collaborative attack using abilities from 2 whole Devils plus human sacrifices, that should place it in the same "special abilities exempt from usual fear scaling" that the Typhoon devil's power is in. Speaking of Aging, ik he can react to the GG's bullet and activated his time stop before it hits but wouldnt that just apply to reaction speed/ability activation speed and not combat speed as a whole, would explain why Fear Boost Pochita could tag Aging's physicals yet seems inferior in speed when it came to reacting to the GG.
 
Bruh said:
Should all Primals really scale to Sub-rel ? Ik Aging does but how do we know his speed is the baseline for all Primals, there may be a hierarchy within the Primals and Aging might just be really fast even among them. At the very least, they all should upscale from the 100% Gun Devil attack speed due to being transcending and all, but Yoru's Sub-Rel feat was a collaborative attack using abilities from 2 whole Devils plus human sacrifices, that should place it in the same "special abilities exempt from usual fear scaling" that the Typhoon devil's power is in. Speaking of Aging, ik he can react to the GG's bullet and activated his time stop before it hits but wouldnt that just apply to reaction speed/ability activation speed and not combat speed as a whole, would explain why Fear Boost Pochita could tag Aging's physicals yet seems inferior in speed when it came to reacting to the GG.
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For why the Primals could scale to Sub-rel, it's basically because Aging was being completely disinterested in that attack, it treated that attack as something not even notable and for all I know Primal fears couldn't be THAT far apart except for Death herself compare to the rest.

Pochita can't "react" to GG because he didn't even look at the direction the bullet is flying from. Aging's performance against Pochita can't be taken as reliable scaling for him, because Pochita basically only "blitzed" Aging once, and that's only blitzing Aging's most nonchalant, laziest attack ever. Basically because Aging didn't even try for the entire fight, we can't scale Pochita from it consistently.
 
That_moron2 said:
BTW Yoru debatably reacts to her weaponification here
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The problem with this is that the soap did not eviscerate after being summoned at FTL+ speeds. However, if we ignore that, we won't, I guess that ultimately scales only to her reactions. Not completely sure if I agree to it yet though.
 
Bruh said:
That's assuming all her weapons have the same weaponization speed + she used her full power on a simple demonstration
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Yes, that's what the calculation assumes, that Yoru can weaponize at those speeds. However, I agree with you that she wouldn't use her full power in a simple demonstration, or it could simply be assumed that she is testing her ability. This could also become an issue when her weaponization speed gets rated as infinite due to the Eternity Devil feat.
 
alright everyone, place your bets
WHO is going to be put on fraudwatch this week
is denji and yoru going to throw fakesaw around like a ragdoll or is fakesaw going to 1v1 true form pochita
is the sun going to go out or is real fami going to start crying again
who knows with fujimoto
 
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