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FamiIs the scaling for who wins looking like this? Think the only ones unknown is Aging, Darkness and Falling so those can be ignored.
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Chainsaw Man discussion thread
- Thread starter Rez
- Start date
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"If a monster is destroyed by battle or card effects while this monster is in your side of the field, negate it's effects and summon it to your side of the field from the graveyard."
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Fami will get that powerup after going around sucking people dry for days, trust.Fami
Zabazab
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What death manip
DrGreyman
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Im telling you bro now that she has orders bypassing her personality she is going to lock tf in and cause a worldwide famine as everything starts withering
real strongest horseman trust the process
the only reason she didn't fodderize fakesaw is because she was nervous now that Death has given her a direct order she's going to be god tier
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I mean she's the death devil, and she confirmed that she has a power that when activates just kinda kills everyone with a global range, or at least that's what implied, otherwise judging from her physicals, she ain't brute forcing a primal fear in any way other than death hax.
Eh, why am I talking headcanon anyways? Just gotta wait for the inevitable.
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I ******* love Fami and fakesawman. I want them to get married and have children and unironically live that life makima wanted with pochita because **** her
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What if Fumiko is one or multiple of Fauxmi's organs that regenerated into a new person?
Specifically the lower intestine because she's full of shit.
Specifically the lower intestine because she's full of shit.
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That would mean whatever devil she is has abilities relating to organs, which is odd, but possible. Wonder what devil that would be though. Maybe Nayuta was correct with her description
DrGreyman
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Which organs was she left with after Old Age made a billion contracts with her again? I know she lost her heart and fingernails, and some other agent lost his liver, what else did fumiko lose?
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She lost her nails, liver, and large intestine to Aging, and her heart to Octopus. The other agent lost his eyes.
Zabazab
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Hmm
Death Devil
- Superhuman Physical Characteristics
- Genius Intelligence
- Primal Fear Devil Physiology
- Enhanced Immortality (Types 2 & 3; As a Primal Fear Devil, the Death Devil has a greater level of immortality than other devils.[1][2] The Death Devil is not capable of dying even by her own hands,[3][4] despite having the power to kill Primal Fear Devils. Although she has disposed of all her internal organs,[3] she does not appear the worse for wear)
- Enhanced Regeneration (At least Mid-High; Despite having killed the Falling Devil, the Death Devil is unable to kill herself[3][4])
- Resurrection (The Death Devil is able to bring back living things she has killed as her pawns[4])
- Mind Manipulation (The Death Devil's power enslaves living things that she kills,[4] making them follow her orders even if they were her enemies moments ago)
- Transmutation (The Death Devil's pawns can be turned into small effigies to easily store and carry them[5])
- Summoning (The Death Devil can summon her pawns from the effigies[6] she turns them into)
- Teleportation (The Death Devil is able to teleport seemingly wherever she pleases[7][8])
- Healing & Statistics Amplification (By some means, she saved the life of Yuko after she was cut into pieces, which caused Yuko to grow huge and become much stronger[9])
- Animal Manipulation (The Death Devil can control crows, having them aid her[4] in finishing her meals)
- Likely Immortality Negation (At least Type 3; The Death Devil made the Falling Devil into her pawn, meaning she killed her[4] in spite of her immortality[1][2])
- Likely Mental BFR (She somehow caused Yoru to vanish from Asa's mind,[7] despite the two sharing a brain)
- Likely Telepathy (She was able to speak to Asa despite her being within an isolated pocket dimension[7])
- Resistance to Memory Manipulation (As one of the four Horsemen, she can recall names that have been erased[10][11] by Chainsaw Man)
- Eternity Devil
- BFR, Pocket Reality Manipulation, & Spatial Manipulation (It is able to create an ever-looping pocket dimension[12] that's completely cut off from the outside[13] inside its stomach[13] to trap victims)
- Gravity Manipulation (It is able to change the direction of gravity[13] within its pocket-realm)
- Time Manipulation (Time does not flow inside this pocket-realm[12])
- Size Manipulation (It can grow larger over time from the fear of the victims inside its pocket-realm[13])
- Falling Devil
- All abilities possessed by the Falling Devil[5]
- Fire Devil
- Enhanced Statistics Amplification (The Fire Devil gains more power the more contractors it has[14])
- Transformation (The Fire Devil can transform its contractors into the form they desire[14])
- Telepathy (Under the identity of the Justice Devil, the Fire Devil granted Yuko the power to read minds for her contract[15])
- Likely Fire Manipulation (Likely, given its Name and visuals[14])
- Guillotine Devil
- Danmaku (It can make countless slashes appear on whatever it flaps its wings towards[6])
- Famine Devil
- Life-Force Absorption & Self-Healing (The Famine Devil can consume the life-force of others to heal her wounds,[16] even the lives of ants is enough[3])
- Fake Chainsaw Man
- Bodily Weaponry & Cyborgization (The Fake Chainsaw Man has sharp teeth, and large chainsaws stemming from his arms and forehead[16])
- Martial Arts (According to Kiga, the Fake Chainsaw Man dabbles in karate and boxing[16])
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Won't she have resurrection? I mean based on her ability to "revive" the one she killed and turned them into her pawns is already beyond just Mind manip, and based on what she did to Yuko, I think that she should have resurrection over just healing. Mind manip should be inside resurrection as it was shown that she could not just control them without giving them order first, so she must resurrect first, then transmutation/ or resurrection via transmutation (which fits better), then summoning and mind manip inside that.
Could slip in a possibly death manip via her statement about the prophecy (which she stated that her ability will activates even while she's asleep, and obviously there isn't any ability besides death manip that would bring the end of the world) and her being the literal death devil.
Zabazab
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Edited. Won't include death manip until confirmation.
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Can't wait for A.D. vs. B.C. (Awakened Death vs. Black Chainsawman)
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That's when Pochita barf out all of his original abilities and become the true Son of God himself with all the kind of bs dura neg hax on his Chainsaws, with power null that allow him to survive Death's hax and all that stuff.
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Pochita eats the paradox devil, problem solved, now he's absolutely omnipotent
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Alright, couple of things I figured that help with the Speed Scaling:
- Hybrid Miri doesn't need to scale to Post-Fear Boost Denji in terms of speed, as Denji specifically wanted to feel pain (a massage) after his house burned down, meaning it's quite possible he was just letting himself get stabbed. This makes base Quanxi blitzing him more palatable.
- Post-Fear Boost Asa/Yoru shouldn't scale to Katana Man's Sword Draw Dash as there's no evidence for it besides that one jumping scene around Pochita, which is suspect for reasons already mentioned. So she just gets at least High Hypersonic.
- Thus, base Quanxi only gets at least High Hypersonic. Hybrid Quanxi still keeps at least High Hypersonic+, from intercepting Pochita's chain slingshot against Makima, as Pochita's spiderman move has been explicitly compared to Hybrid ability applications in order to increase speed like Reze's explosive propulsion, so it should still be at least comparable if not better to Part 2 Katana Man's Quick Draw.
- I think Quanxi has her own High Hypersonic Calc somewhere that puts her at like Mach 40, but I dunno if it's evaluated.
- Base Quanxi: At least High Hypersonic (From either her own calc, or scaling above Post-Fear Boost Yoru), at least High Hypersonic+ transformed
- Post-Fear Boost Asa/Yoru: At least High Hypersonic (From either fearscaling, or upscaling above Yoshida to the next speed tier)
- Miri: At least Hypersonic (At least comparable to Part 1 Katana Man)
DrGreyman
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"Ah yes, the 'ability to kill death in one strike' devil that I ate in the heian era"
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Nice job with the profile let me add my own thoughts
I'd put Limited or some kind of qualifier on this. It certainly doesn't fully enslave them the way Falling implied;
I'd also add a few powers;
Enhanced Senses, Reasoning; Horsemen Devils identify people by smell, not sight. This by definition requires a supernatural sense of smell.
Extraordinary Perception, Horsemen Devils can identify each other even in recently incarnated forms - Death could easily recognize Yoru (despite her sharing Asa's body and not being in Control at the time), and Nayuta and Death easily recognized each other (despite Nayuta being a very new incarnation of Control). Only Yoru seems to lack this ability but this could be because she's sharing a body with a human. However they cannot identify which sister it is, allowing Death to pose as Famine Devil.
Nayuta was also able to sense the Falling Devil from a very long distance, before it had even manifested. Makima had similarly absurd perception, being able to perceive Pochita from orbit. And Death's senses - lack of organs aside - shouldn't be inferior.
Body Control - Falling is capable of shutting down her own body's biological regeneration to permanently seal her organs away. This would not be possible for most Devils, as they seem to passively regenerate with blood or over time (even if they are unconscious) or if other requirements are met (Pulling a Chainsaw Cord). On top of that she is also able to not only survive without organs (which most Devils can, at least temporarily) but function exactly as if she had organs, being able to stand up straight without a spine, speak and breathe without lungs, pump blood through her body without a heart et cetera.
Under Weaknesses, i would add some things as we've found out some new ones this chapter:
- If Awakened, she will be significantly stronger, but also unable to control her own power. It is stated by the Death Devil that even while asleep, her powers would activate and wipe out humanity against her will.
- Her powers, like all Devils, are tied to how much the concept of "Death" is feared, both among humans and devils, and also the amount of people fearing the concept- which in her case is pretty much anything that is both alive and mortal. I know this is covered under Primal Devil physiology but its important for her specifically because Death differs from other Devils that share this fear dependence by literally having an "Awakened" form. For example in any Star Wars matchup with VE and set in a Star Wars location i would assume Death is automatically Awakened by getting fear-boosts from an entire galaxy of people that are afraid to die.
- Cannot easily stop the "Prophecy of Nostradamus", as Death expects the event that awakens her to be inevitable, and is either incapable of, or unable to come up with a way to defy her own fate or save humanity herself. Death instead attempts to find and build up someone even stronger than herself to kill her and defy the Prophecy. (Granted this is more story-focused plus arguably Intelligence limit but given that some characters have Fate Manipulation and can defy prophecies or inevitabilities, worth mentioning, for example implies complete incapability to avoid Luck Manipulation a la Wonder of U.)
I'd also propose having two keys for now; base Death (everything we know she can do), and Awakened (everything we know she can do, but likely far higher.) Yes a bit early but we will inevitably need it once she Awakens since we will not be able to assume she could do any Awakened feats without having the massive fear boost that precedes it.
Lastly im not sure we should call her Kiga anymore, its Japanese short for "Hunger", clearly a fake name, the best we've got is her title of "Death Devil".
I'd put Limited or some kind of qualifier on this. It certainly doesn't fully enslave them the way Falling implied;
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- Guilly didnt follow Death's orders of killing the DCF Security and stripped them naked instead.
- Death told Guilly to "shut up", Guilly promptly ignored its master as it responded with a loud GYOHNEE.
- Guilly then went back to its puppet form against Death's will again, prompting her to call her own pawn "useless".
- First thing Fami did is punch Death, both her and FakeSaw also remember being eaten and are in shock about it (full mind manipulation like Makima's would render the victim incapable of caring about anything other than pleasing their master, f.e Quanxi who happily obeyed her lovers' killer)
- Death then stops Falling from killing Fami, which shows that Falling acted out of her own will, not Death's. (again this NEVER happened with Makima)
- Falling likewise retains her own will and personality; f.e when she killed the Justice Devil after it barfed out Asa, despite the fact she was ordered to feed it.
- Lastly as a piece of circumstantial evidence, Death went through extreme lengths to get Yoru to obey her (including having the Falling Devil feed Yoru to the Justice Devil); if her ability was this omnipotent she could at any point have simply killed Yoru and turned her into a mindless puppet. Death's explanation in the Devil Containment Facility, where she claims her pawns are weaker than they were before becoming puppets, could explain why she didnt do this. Although at that point she was still pretending to be Fami, so its questionable.
I would alter this sentence, she is capable of surviving without her organs (for that matter, so is almost every Devil, at least temporarily) but we don't know to what extent it weakens her or if it weakens her (although i do agree that she doesnt "appear" worse for wear). I've even seen people on this forum bring up the idea that her lack of organs physically weakens her as an explanation for her dura-anti feats in the Devil Containment Facility Arc. Which - while i disagree- is a reasonable hypothesis given that Death tried to kill herself via Organ Removal, so she definitely thought it would hurt her despite the fact she seemingly functions perfectly fine without them.
This removes the implication that she is not nerfed, stressing that all we know is her lack of organs does not impede her survival and common functions like eating.
I'd also add a few powers;
Enhanced Senses, Reasoning; Horsemen Devils identify people by smell, not sight. This by definition requires a supernatural sense of smell.
Extraordinary Perception, Horsemen Devils can identify each other even in recently incarnated forms - Death could easily recognize Yoru (despite her sharing Asa's body and not being in Control at the time), and Nayuta and Death easily recognized each other (despite Nayuta being a very new incarnation of Control). Only Yoru seems to lack this ability but this could be because she's sharing a body with a human. However they cannot identify which sister it is, allowing Death to pose as Famine Devil.
Nayuta was also able to sense the Falling Devil from a very long distance, before it had even manifested. Makima had similarly absurd perception, being able to perceive Pochita from orbit. And Death's senses - lack of organs aside - shouldn't be inferior.
Body Control - Falling is capable of shutting down her own body's biological regeneration to permanently seal her organs away. This would not be possible for most Devils, as they seem to passively regenerate with blood or over time (even if they are unconscious) or if other requirements are met (Pulling a Chainsaw Cord). On top of that she is also able to not only survive without organs (which most Devils can, at least temporarily) but function exactly as if she had organs, being able to stand up straight without a spine, speak and breathe without lungs, pump blood through her body without a heart et cetera.
Under Weaknesses, i would add some things as we've found out some new ones this chapter:
- If Awakened, she will be significantly stronger, but also unable to control her own power. It is stated by the Death Devil that even while asleep, her powers would activate and wipe out humanity against her will.
- Her powers, like all Devils, are tied to how much the concept of "Death" is feared, both among humans and devils, and also the amount of people fearing the concept- which in her case is pretty much anything that is both alive and mortal. I know this is covered under Primal Devil physiology but its important for her specifically because Death differs from other Devils that share this fear dependence by literally having an "Awakened" form. For example in any Star Wars matchup with VE and set in a Star Wars location i would assume Death is automatically Awakened by getting fear-boosts from an entire galaxy of people that are afraid to die.
- Cannot easily stop the "Prophecy of Nostradamus", as Death expects the event that awakens her to be inevitable, and is either incapable of, or unable to come up with a way to defy her own fate or save humanity herself. Death instead attempts to find and build up someone even stronger than herself to kill her and defy the Prophecy. (Granted this is more story-focused plus arguably Intelligence limit but given that some characters have Fate Manipulation and can defy prophecies or inevitabilities, worth mentioning, for example implies complete incapability to avoid Luck Manipulation a la Wonder of U.)
I'd also propose having two keys for now; base Death (everything we know she can do), and Awakened (everything we know she can do, but likely far higher.) Yes a bit early but we will inevitably need it once she Awakens since we will not be able to assume she could do any Awakened feats without having the massive fear boost that precedes it.
Lastly im not sure we should call her Kiga anymore, its Japanese short for "Hunger", clearly a fake name, the best we've got is her title of "Death Devil".
Zabazab
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This is pretty much limited to Guilly, Kiga herself also obeyed Death as soon as she received an order. Falling acted to punish Kiga for striking her mistress, but stopped as soon as Death ordered her. And the qualifier is "has been killed by Death Devil-sama."
Makima's Conquest was able to essentially strip back personalities temporarily, but her Weapon Devils showed how Makima could keep personalities intact while altering their loyalties. This is mostly a digression, though. Behaving dissimilarly from Conquest isn't that meaningful.
How about;
I believe Devil Physiology covers enhanced smell. If Death gets her own strong feat I'll add it to her p&a.
I guess limited ESP is fine for being able to feel if someone is her sister. Nayuta's feat though was via her sense of smell.
Body Control sounds fine for that.
These aren't really weaknesses, they don't aid you in defeating her, nor do they limit her capabilities. It is also as you mentioned already covered by her Varies rating.
Being bound to fate isn't a unique weakness, everyone is bound by fate unless proven otherwise. Future Devil correctly predicted the pre-finale of Part 1, but that doesn't add a special weakness to fate manip for Denji/Power/Aki.
Also I'm on board with the reading that Death doesn't want to disappear, given her reaction when Kiga tells her to let CSM eat her.
True!
Yes, a new page called "Death Devil" (unless she gets a proper name soon) will be made and Death's stuff will go there. "Kiga's" page will be replaced with the real Kiga's stuff. Which so far is just life absorption and some possibly-fake info analysis.
Another digression: Kiga isn't short for hunger in Japanese, it's the katakana キガ (Ki-ga) which is just how you pronounce 飢餓 (Famine). So spoken aloud, Kiga and Famine sound the exact same (Ki-ga). Meaning it's actually a worse cover-name than the Viz localization suggests— a more literal localization would be Famine calling herself herself Phamin.
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I like your changes. I still think its a good idea to add the Key early. We had the same for Falling back when it was assumed she was in a Starved form.
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飢餓 can also be read as Hunger. Kanji can have multiple valid readings.
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Oh yeah, since Fauxmi's full of metaphorical shit, we have no idea if she was being truthful about Falling being gimped.
Same shtick as Conquest = Control. One is more like an event the masses experience, and the other is the individual result caused by said event.
... Yet the English translation uses the latter for Control, and the former for Famine, despite how Control breaks the Horsemen naming scheme. (Honestly kinda hoping the Anime calls Makima the Conquest Devil, despite how much [Find & Replace] will need to be done across all the wikis.)
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Yeah that's debatable tbh. I do think Falling has (by far) the worst showings of any Primal so that kinda speaks in favor of Death being truthful for once.
Yep
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Imagine if Fauxmi actually killed Yoru when she teleported her out of the Aquarium during Asa and Denji's date, and all this time Yoru's been a pawn of Fauxmi without her even knowing it since her pawns keep their will and personality intact unless she specifies otherwise.
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- Directed by M. Night Shyamalan
While we're on the topic of crackpot theories, im still waiting for Angels to show up. Maybe Prophecy Day is just the day Angels finally had enough of the Devil's fuckery.
Zabazab
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Pretty sure we only added that when Public Safety Breakout mini-arc confirmed that the pawns are nerfed, and because we had a benchmark in the form of Darkness. I believe I wasn't involved in second-key stuff for Falling.
Also kinda unrelated: The back of volume 15 has an officially coloured version of the current profile image used for Falling... I like how her extremities are blue-black due to being corpse bits.
Yes, but katakana has no reading beyond the phonemes. キガ has no actual meaning on its own, it just sounds the same as 飢餓 which contextually gives it meaning.
The multiple readings resulted in all 3 english translations (2 fan, 1 official) missing the connection between Makima's Devil Name and the horsemen. They also missed it when Makima listed her sisters (referring to Famine as Hunger), and iirc, only the official translation actually translated Four Horsemen correctly? Since the kanji literally just means "Four Knights".
It is also important to remember that the devils Names are all japanese characters, not english words. Kiga is the horseman of famine, which is her name, but it does also cover hunger as a concept. Same with Makima being conquest, but embodying control and domination too because it's included in her japanese name. It also makes Falling's primal status more obvious.
I think Conquest is still the ideal translation since the horseman theming should come first, even if there'll always be a bit of lost nuance.
It's okay, we can just make her name Conquest even if Control is infinitely more popular
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Now thinking about how her Pawns are troublesome and has many restrictions in contrast to Yoru's and Makima's ability that only has their conditions and nothing else on that level, I think that it's a direct result of Fami not being "awakened" and is holding back her power in all way possible. Which explains why her physicals are also really weak, it's because Death is literally in her extremely nerfed form by her own will.
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How do yall feel about this?
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ElJoaki5/Chainsaw_Man:_Aging_Devil_Creates_World
Math is alright but is this a good interpretation or wank?
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ElJoaki5/Chainsaw_Man:_Aging_Devil_Creates_World
Math is alright but is this a good interpretation or wank?
Arkenis
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What's even the interpretation? Creation feats require a ues being used and showing that they can output that power regularly and a couple other stuff.
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Creation feats for scaling need that, Creation feats in general can just be things that only go on the profile of whoever did it.
It's simultaneously so high-balled (a planet, when we never see that it's a planet) and so low-balled (creation spread out over several times the age of Homo sapiens using the most generous definition of human possible), that they cancel out and the result becomes something completely reasonable with its face-value appearance. (Mountain level, when there's two mountains visible in the background).
I personally love it; got no issue sticking it in the Supporting Calcs section below Typhoon's Storm and on Aging's profile as Environmental Destruction.
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Arkenis
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I assume he's asking for scaling purposes since the calcs fine but he's wondering about wank.
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i dont believe it scales to his actual ap. Just environmental destruction.
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