Cassandra Cain Page Overhaul

[LordTracer]

This will be the first part of a big project to revise the pages for (most of) the Batman-related characters, because if we’re being honest, almost every page aside from Batman himself is sub-par, if not downright bad.

Potentially calcable feats
Before I show my rework for Cassandra Cain’s page, here’s some speed feats I found from her that could probably be calced.

• Batgirl Vol. 1 #13
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #21
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #34 (This was already calced by @Zamasu_Chan, but it needs to be evaluated)
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #46
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #46
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #47
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #56
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #71
• DC First: Batgirl/Joker

The new page
Here’s the main content, Cassandra’s new page complete with references, scans and a whole lot of general housekeeping, because her page desperately needs it (like, seriously, her current page has Post-Flashpoint information in it).

LordTracer/New Cass Profile

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Confluctor]

Since I saw it before, sure. Seems agreeable.

 

[Antvasima]

The draft page seems fine, except for that I think that we may have agreed to use "possibly" before her Hypersonic speed earlier, and that giving her Hypersonic+ with no calculation as a basis seems unreliable.

 

[Antvasima]

This will be the first part of a big project to revise the pages for (most of) the Batman-related characters, because if we’re being honest, almost every page aside from Batman himself is sub-par, if not downright bad.

Potentially calcable feats
Before I show my rework for Cassandra Cain’s page, here’s some speed feats I found from her that could probably be calced.

• Batgirl Vol. 1 #13
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #21
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #34 (This was already calced by @Zamasu_Chan, but it needs to be evaluated)
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #46
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #46
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #47
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #56
• Batgirl Vol. 1 #71
• DC First: Batgirl/Joker

@M3X @Armorchompy @DemonGodMitchAubin @Psychomaster35

Would any of you be interested in helping out with calculating or evaluating this? Tell us here if you accept please.

 

[LordTracer]

The draft page seems fine, except for that I think that we may have agreed to use "possibly" before her Hypersonic speed earlier, and that giving her Hypersonic+ with no calculation as a basis seems unreliable.

We agreed to use “possibly Hypersonic+“ for characters like Batman and those comparable to him, not Cassandra herself.

And the Hypersonic+ rating does come from a calculation.

 

[Antvasima]

This will be the first part of a big project to revise the pages for (most of) the Batman-related characters, because if we’re being honest, almost every page aside from Batman himself is sub-par, if not downright bad.

The new page
Here’s the main content, Cassandra’s new page complete with references, scans and a whole lot of general housekeeping, because her page desperately needs it (like, seriously, her current page has Post-Flashpoint information in it).

LordTracer/New Cass Profile

vsbattles.fandom.com

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @LephyrTheRevanchist

Would you be willing to help out here please?

 

[Antvasima]

We agreed to use “possibly Hypersonic+“ for characters like Batman and those comparable to him, not Cassandra herself.

And the Hypersonic+ rating does come from a calculation.

Okay. Never mind then.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The only stuff I really see wrong is that Martial Arts is missing an end parentheses and we should probably just give her superhuman movement speed (Batgirl (2000) Annual #1) or subsonic movement speed.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Who’s working on Tim Drake? I will happily help where I can.

 

[LordTracer]

Who’s working on Tim Drake? I will happily help where I can.

Nobody’s working on him yet, but you can start if you’d like to.

The only stuff I really see wrong is that Martial Arts is missing an end parentheses and we should probably just give her superhuman movement speed (Batgirl (2000) Annual #1) or subsonic movement speed.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that feat. I have a Subsonic calc for that, I’ll add that into the sandbox.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Nobody’s working on him yet, but you can start if you’d like to.

Daredevil & Tim Drake comics. Woo, what a life.

 

[Hellbeast]

This is dope and I'm curious how you'd revise everything
I call dibs on Post-Flashpoint tho

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Seems legit to me.

 

[LordTracer]

This is dope and I'm curious how you'd revise everything
I call dibs on Post-Flashpoint tho

Y’know, the Post-Flashpoint profiles aren’t that bad compared to the Post-Crisis ones. Especially since they don’t scale everyone and their grandmother to Katana

 

[Hellbeast]

True but I do think they're missing a lot and we seem to have loose scaling

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

For movement speed, why does it say "Comparable to Tim Drake" if he's supersonic+, possibly hypersonic+? Feel like it should probably just scale to the calc and that's it

 

[LordTracer]

For movement speed, why does it say "Comparable to Tim Drake" if he's supersonic+, possibly hypersonic+? Feel like it should probably just scale to the calc and that's it

That’s Tim’s combat speed, not his movement speed.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

That’s Tim’s combat speed, not his movement speed.

Feel like the profile should probably list that if that's the case but fair enough then

 

[Armorchompy]

This seems very well made, good job. Profile seems good to me, 8-C is sliiightly questionable given that most of her wins are probably through skill but if she beats Deathstroke and has no antifeats it should be fine.

 

[LordTracer]

This seems very well made, good job. Profile seems good to me, 8-C is sliiightly questionable given that most of her wins are probably through skill but if she beats Deathstroke and has no antifeats it should be fine.

Her first fight against Slade could probably be considered skill since she does claim that Slade is physically stronger than her in Batgirl Vol. 1 #64 although tbh I find that weird since she proceeds to fight on par with Ravager immediately afterwards, but the majority of stuff in her 8-C justification should be pure AP.

Like, one-tapping Joker, stomping Barbara in 0.37 seconds, harming Scarebeast and Mallah, etc, that’s all just AP.

 

[Confluctor]

Question; Ravager is weaker than Slade, no? I only read her in teen titans but I think she was stated to be weaker than Slade a few times iirc

 

[LordTracer]

I think we list her as being comparable to Slade.

 

[Confluctor]

Hm I see

 

[Armorchompy]

Like, one-tapping Joker, stomping Barbara in 0.37 seconds, harming Scarebeast and Mallah, etc, that’s all just AP.

Eh, you can KO someone really fast without an AP advantage with the right technique, even IRL. But again assuming no antifeats it's fine.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

The proposal is a major improvement over the current profile, great job. I look forward to the other revised profiles.

 

[Armorchompy]

Likewise

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Is it ok to apply those changes or are we waiting for calcs to be approved

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I asked a few calc group members to help out earlier, but they have not replied yet.

Are calculations for the new feats necessary, or is it sufficient if I ask somebody to evaluate the following calculation?

Cassandra Cain outpaces a bullet

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LordTracer]

Well, I asked a few calc group members to help out earlier, but they have not replied yet.

Are calculations for the new feats necessary, or is it sufficient if I ask somebody to evaluate the following calculation?

Cassandra Cain outpaces a bullet

vsbattles.fandom.com

If that gets evaluated, we can finish up here. The new feats were just extra.

 

[Armorchompy]

approved

 

[LordTracer]

Alright, since there’s been five staff approvals and the new calc has been accepted, I’ll go ahead and apply this.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, Armorchompy.

This seems fine to apply then, yes.

 

[LordTracer]

The edits have been applied, I think we’re done here.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Alrighty then, closing.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody here for helping out.

 

[Confluctor]

Oh yeah, the file is missing range apparently.

@LordTracer

 

[LordTracer]

I added it.

 

[Confluctor]

Thanks, I will close it then