Buzzwole vs not Bowser

[King_Clab]

Buzzwole vs not Bowser

Speed equalized
Wild Buzzwole being used
No TM, TR, HM or Tuters for Buzzwole
Dark Bowser has preparation


Fights takes place on top of Princess Peach’s castle

Starts 10 meters from each other

Fight!
Daddy Mosquito: 0
Not just bowser:0

 

[Imaginym]

Why is Buzzwole's LS Unknown?

Also, I forget, what's the method for Mario & Luigi leaving the inside of Dark Bowser in their fight against him?
Because Dark Bowser can just inhale, right?
"Can create enemies that can fire beams and self-destruct upon defeat"

Which enemies are the beam shooting ones?

Also, anyone know what values the combatants scale to?

 

[AStrangeverse]

Why is Buzzwole's LS Unknown?

shrug

Also, I forget, what's the method for Mario & Luigi leaving the inside of Dark Bowser in their fight against him?
Because Dark Bowser can just inhale, right?
"Can create enemies that can fire beams and self-destruct upon defeat"

it was OG Bowser that the bros remained inside of, not Dark Bowser

and as far as I can remember, there wasn't any viable way for the bros to escape Bowser, only being able to leave due to Fawful's parting gift setting them free

and Dark Bowser doesn't only inhale, he summons a kingdom-wide gust of darkness that contains anyone caught in it inside bubbles(?) before inhaling them, so it should be darkness manipulation, sealing, and bfr all together as his go-to

Which enemies are the beam shooting ones?

I don't remember any enemies that can shoot beams, less you count the battle against Fawful inside Dark Bowser

there were only bob-bombs, thwomps, goombas, koopa shells, and bullet bills

Also, anyone know what values the combatants scale to?

Dark Bowser scales to Bowser, who is baseline 3-C, which is 10.53 ZettaFoe

Buzzwole scales to Tapu Koko, who is 1.198 YottaFoe, several magnitudes above baseline 3-C

so Buzzwole has one-shot worthy AP, I believe

 

[King_Clab]

shrug



it was OG Bowser that the bros remained inside of, not Dark Bowser

and as far as I can remember, there wasn't any viable way for the bros to escape Bowser, only being able to leave due to Fawful's parting gift setting them free

and Dark Bowser doesn't only inhale, he summons a kingdom-wide gust of darkness that contains anyone caught in it inside bubbles(?) before inhaling them, so it should be darkness manipulation, sealing, and bfr all together as his go-to



I don't remember any enemies that can shoot beams, less you count the battle against Fawful inside Dark Bowser

there were only bob-bombs, thwomps, goombas, koopa shells, and bullet bills



Dark Bowser scales to Bowser, who is baseline 3-C, which is 10.53 ZettaFoe

Buzzwole scales to Tapu Koko, who is 1.198 YottaFoe, several magnitudes above baseline 3-C

so Buzzwole has one-shot worthy AP, I believe

I’m changing it to Base Bowser then. Since he has the Hax to overcome the AP difference.

 

[Imaginym]

shrug



it was OG Bowser that the bros remained inside of, not Dark Bowser

and as far as I can remember, there wasn't any viable way for the bros to escape Bowser, only being able to leave due to Fawful's parting gift setting them free

and Dark Bowser doesn't only inhale, he summons a kingdom-wide gust of darkness that contains anyone caught in it inside bubbles(?) before inhaling them, so it should be darkness manipulation, sealing, and bfr all together as his go-to

Ah.
So he'd lead with Sealing. Pokemon Resist that, Ultra Beasts arguably moreso. (IIRC, they're literally 10 times harder to catch in gameplay with anything but a Beast Ball, & there may be a statement as well.)

Still, a lead like that might be GG.

Buzzwole scales to Tapu Koko, who is 1.198 YottaFoe, several magnitudes above baseline 3-C

I wonder why it doesn't have a LS like Tapu Koko's then?
Lifting Strength: At least Class Z, likely far higher (Should still be immensely superior to Primal Groudon and comparable to Mega Mewtwo)

Is it because we don't know the details of its fight, & thus, we don't know if LS was involved? (Though, that doesn't seem to be an issue considering Tapu Koko is upscaling from Primal Groudon & Mega Mewtwo, which I doubt it's interacted with, unless that rating having Tapu Koko be superior means it doesn't necessarily need to have interacted in a LS-related manner.)

so Buzzwole has one-shot worthy AP, I believe

What's a FOE again? What's a ZettaFoe & a YottaFOE?
How do ZettaFOE & YottaFoe convert?
Sorry.

I’m changing it to Base Bowser then. Since he has the Hax to overcome the AP difference.

Seems reasonable.

 

[koopa3144]

Gonna note that Bowser profile is gonna be reworked soon iirc.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

What's a FOE again? What's a ZettaFoe & a YottaFOE?
How do ZettaFOE & YottaFoe convert?
Sorry.

Here's destruction values
1 YottaFoe is equal to 1000 ZettaFoe

 

[DaReaperMan]

With no prior knowledge Bowser leads with either melee or Flame breath which leads into Buzzswole going to a donut shop.

 

[AStrangeverse]

I’m changing it to Base Bowser then. Since he has the Hax to overcome the AP difference.

dunno if that was necessary, Dark Bowser does actually have a pretty solid wincon

since he'd start with the inhale, which has all of the aforementioned abilities I said

whereas Bowser usually starts with physical and fire attacks, which would probably result in him meeting Kakyoin at Dunkin's

 

[AStrangeverse]

Ah.
So he'd lead with Sealing. Pokemon Resist that, Ultra Beasts arguably moreso. (IIRC, they're literally 10 times harder to catch in gameplay with anything but a Beast Ball, & there may be a statement as well.)

I dunno, I don't see any resistance to sealing on Buzzwole's profile

Still, a lead like that might be GG.

I wonder why it doesn't have a LS like Tapu Koko's then?
Lifting Strength: At least Class Z, likely far higher (Should still be immensely superior to Primal Groudon and comparable to Mega Mewtwo)

Is it because we don't know the details of its fight, & thus, we don't know if LS was involved? (Though, that doesn't seem to be an issue considering Tapu Koko is upscaling from Primal Groudon & Mega Mewtwo, which I doubt it's interacted with, unless that rating having Tapu Koko be superior means it doesn't necessarily need to have interacted in a LS-related manner.)

might be because most of the Pokemon profiles aren't up-to-date, so they're in pretty shoddy states rn

 

[Imaginym]

I dunno, I don't see any resistance to sealing on Buzzwole's profile

Should be a thing it has. It's a Pokemon. Pokemon break out of Poke Balls, which are designed to Seal.

Ultra Beasts literally are more likely -& canonically, at that, too, IIRC- to break out of Poke Balls other than Beast Balls. Although, IIRC, the explanation involves Ultra Beasts being alien to this world, so it may be that Poke Ball tech isn't familiar with them -Unlike all the other oh so very homogenous species it works well on- rather than them having greater Resistance to Sealing.
But they'd still resist somewhat, I'm sure, being Pokemon from different worlds, I'd think.

might be because most of the Pokemon profiles aren't up-to-date, so they're in pretty shoddy states rn

That might explain the strangeness with the LS. Maybe.

 

[AStrangeverse]

Should be a thing it has. It's a Pokemon. Pokemon break out of Poke Balls, which are designed to seal.

hm hm, even if Buzzwole may resist sealing, there's still the succ he'd have to deal with

That might explain the strangeness with the LS. Maybe.

hm hm

 

[King_Clab]

Changing it back to Dark Bowser. BOWSER either haxstomps or Buzzwole just one-shots, and Dark Bowser has a solid wincon.

 

[AStrangeverse]

bump

 

[AStrangeverse]

Bump

 

[King_Clab]

Bump

 

[Imaginym]

Okay, so if it's Buzzwole vs Dark Bowser.... Where was the debate again?

 

[AStrangeverse]

Should be a thing it has. It's a Pokemon. Pokemon break out of Poke Balls, which are designed to Seal.

Ultra Beasts literally are more likely -& canonically, at that, too, IIRC- to break out of Poke Balls other than Beast Balls. Although, IIRC, the explanation involves Ultra Beasts being alien to this world, so it may be that Poke Ball tech isn't familiar with them -Unlike all the other oh so very homogenous species it works well on- rather than them having greater Resistance to Sealing.
But they'd still resist somewhat, I'm sure, being Pokemon from different worlds, I'd think.

That might explain the strangeness with the LS. Maybe.

here

 

[Imaginym]

here

So I'm guessing before we debate other matters, considering Dark Bowser's inhale is what he leads with, if I remember what I read in this thread right, we have to go over if Ultra Beast Resistance to Sealing is sufficient.
Basis being that Ultra Beasts are Pokemon, which are more likely to break out of all kind of Poke Balls -Technology regularly made & used to seal Pokemon- other than Beast Balls.
Here's the dialogue I could find on the topic. Scans are harder to find:

Wicke/Quotes - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Regardless of choice: "Those are Beast Balls, which the Aether Foundation developed in great secrecy... They are a special kind of Poké Ball that are specialized for capturing Ultra Beasts. As a result, they are very expensive to make, so we have not been able to mass-produce them. Please consider your timing very carefully for when you will use them during a battle."

Tell me about the Beast Balls: "Ultra Beasts are life-forms from another world. If you try to throw a regular Poké Ball at one, the ball will have a difficult time recognizing the creature as a Pokémon, and so the capturing function will be significantly impaired. But these special balls should allow you to capture beasts quite normally. They could be considered the foundation's negative assets, but I hope they will help you."

Other dialogue about them:
"Those are special Poké Balls that we developed with the Ultra Recon Squad's help to capture Ultra Beasts. I know I can trust leaving them in the hands of a Trainer like you."
- Lusamine, to the player, in US/UM, seemingly about catching Ultra Necrozma.

Looker also has dialogue about them:

"But now we should get our heads on straight and get to work! I do not like it, but I am in charge of backup once again! And for you, <player>. The Beast Balls you will need for this mission!"

• If asked about Beast Balls while having at least one in the Bag

"Beast Balls are incredibly valuable Poké Balls! I asked Madam Wicke, who works in the secret labs, and she said a single ball costs millions! It appears you still have some on you, as well. Be very careful about using them!"

• If asked about Beast Balls while having none in the Bag

"What?! You mean you ran out of Beast Balls?! Well...then I suppose I must give you one of the extras that I have been holding in reserve!"


Looker is an International Police officer, for those who don't know. So I consider him a fairly reliable source of info.
Looker says a single Beast Ball costs "millions". I don't know if Pokemon world money corresponds to JPY or what, presumably so, & I'm not sure if the localization changed thousands or something to "millions"; 1 million JPY today would only be about 7,000 USD. Maybe it was more expensive in Japanese, or localizing to English changed the number? IDK.
Point is, they're expensive tech, but it's unclear HOW expensive without knowing the dialogue in the original language.


Info on Beast Ball's function in gameplay:
If the wild Pokémon is an Ultra Beast, it has a 5× catch rate modifier; otherwise, it has a 410/4096× (~0.1×) modifier.

According to Bulbapedia's summary of the Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon chapter (Adventures) on their Ultra Beast page:

Afterward, Nihilego captured Guzma and dragged him into an Ultra Wormhole with it. The other beasts escaped from Po Town's barrier, allowing them to wreak havoc on the rest of Ula'ula Island. Anabel and Looker arrived shortly thereafter, and while Looker went off to investigate the Ultra Beasts that broke through the walls, Anabel assisted Sun and Moon in battling a Blacephalon. Anabel attempted to capture Blacephalon, only to discover that ordinary Poké Balls do not work on Ultra Beasts. Before Blacephalon could retaliate with Mind Blown, Tapu Bulu blew it away. Afterward, while Sun, Moon, Professor Kukui, and Professor Burnet gave Tapu Bulu a Mirage Berry, Anabel speculated that there was a certain person hiding in Alola, who was capable of creating Poké Balls that would be able to capture Ultra Beasts.


May be worth getting scans or such, or seeing if anyone has already documented it, so as to help clarify that ostensible Resistance.


Hopefully this is helpful, or at least interesting information.

 

[AStrangeverse]

hm hm, can't comment too much due to my general lack of knowledge in regards to the functionality of Pokeballs, but I can say-

even if Buzzwole doesn't get bubbled, he'd still get the succ, no?

guy doesn't seem to have the necessities to resist it

 

[Imaginym]

hm hm, can't comment too much due to my general lack of knowledge in regards to the functionality of Pokeballs, but I can say-

even if Buzzwole doesn't get bubbled, he'd still get the succ, no?

guy doesn't seem to have the necessities to resist it

Could the inhale effect be resisted through LS -It should probably scale to Pokemon LS, but IDK why it doesn't- or Speed? & Buzzwole, IIRC, is capable of flight.

 

[AStrangeverse]

Could the inhale effect be resisted through LS -It should probably scale to Pokemon LS, but IDK why it doesn't- or Speed? & Buzzwole, IIRC, is capable of flight.

probably not, since it sucks you into the air before you enter Dark Bowser, not to mention that Buzzwole's LS is unknown and I still think sealing would work