KittBetelgeuse
She/Her- 189
- 17
A short time ago there was a discussion about equalizing haki to other energy types, it was deemed that haki was too different from the other common anime energy types to qualify for that kind of equalization based on its specialized unique capabilities.
One topic that was very briefly touched was that of Haki's ability to negate power-based durability enhancements, not negating the power but bypassing it, I even got to the point of calling it a "softcore soul attack", tough that MUST be taken as an oversimplification, since this has many catches that have to be adressed, the idea here is discussing if we should "buff" every haki user with a specific kind of durability negation on their powers and abilities list, and a note explaining how this affects other verses on the One Piece verse page.
first the definition of haki as we have it on the wiki is correct and probably shouldnt be changed, here I copypaste just to have everyone on the same page:
Busōshoku Haki (Color of Armaments): A form of Haki that allows the user to create an "invisible armor" around themselves. With that, they can protect himself from attacks, and if trained well, use it to deliver stronger attacks. Besides the increase of strength, it is the only form of attack that doesn't involve Kairouseki that can hit any Devil Fruit user, being able to hit the user's original body even if it's a Logia user. It can also be used in weapons.
We focus on the last tidbit, were it says "Being able to hit the user's original body".Haki is able to apply the full force of a characters attack to an enemy, bypassing any superpower that means a defense to them, hitting their original form, for example, Luffy resisting blunt force gets negated, and even tought he still retain his rubber properties, he get's hit as if he didn't, this means that when we hit luffy with a haki imbued attack, we're counting it as luffy's own durability with NO resistance. Haki then takes into account the user's "body" when their powers are not activated, This is a very important distinction due a recent chapter'r showing us an interesting interaction, Luffy trying to punch Prometheus (Who is a ball of concentrated fire given life by another character's power) with haki, said exchange didn't harm prometheus at all, and Luffy even pointed out that "it was worse than a logia". We know by this that haki is NOT a soul attack (As prometheus is confirmed to have a soul giving him life), instead, Haki doesn't work on him because he has no true body that can be hurted by blunt force, he is simply a ball of fire.
with this we have a guideline for what kind of things haki can negate:
-Intangibility (so long as the character in question has to "turn on" said intangibility, indicating they have a real body, characters like Mirio Togata )
-Elemental Dispersion (So long as the character has to turn on said dispersion, Characters like Juvia Lockser and Kona )
-Passive Elemental Mimicry (if the character has or has had a NON-powered self, or in the least has to activate said power, Examples in verse include Monkey D. Luffy , Jozu and Daz Bones , similar characters from other verses then would apply, such as Mr. Fantastic , someone also pointed out Colossus but I don't know the character enough)
It would NOT work on:
-Power generated armor (shown multiple times in the series, cases like Pica and Charlotte Cracker , this is were the colossus thing came to mind as his profile says "turning to metal" instead of "Coating in metal")
-Things that "from birth" are passively intangible or indestructible (Several stands come to mind, particularly Yellow Temperance and The Fool , if it hits the stand, not the user)
-Passive power after effects (Haki only Bypasses the power, it doesnt negate it's existance, so unless the user's armament haki is strong enough, they can hit people made out of acid or fire but will suffer damage)
It should be pointed that even when haki bypasses the power enhancement, it doesn't bypass the target's real body's durability, for example, after getting the gomu gomu no mi powers, luffy Gained resistance to blunt force, but he has become much stronger by himself and not only by his power, being able to survive hits from blackbeard when he nullifies his rubber powers, or being hit by other haki users even pre-timeskip.
But here comes the hard discussion part, would it be applicable to characters who use Stats-Amps and transformations? to put a couple examples, If we punch All Might with a Haki-enhanced punch, Would be hurting his little scrawny self? If we don't take regen into account, would we hit base Ba instead of Amped Ban when he uses Hunter Fest? If you hit Awakened Garou , Would you be hurting his base self or his Awakened state? in regards of that last one, what about the Humans who turned monsters by eating monster cells?
TL
R: Should we give Haki users "durability negation/Bypass" on their power lists?
One topic that was very briefly touched was that of Haki's ability to negate power-based durability enhancements, not negating the power but bypassing it, I even got to the point of calling it a "softcore soul attack", tough that MUST be taken as an oversimplification, since this has many catches that have to be adressed, the idea here is discussing if we should "buff" every haki user with a specific kind of durability negation on their powers and abilities list, and a note explaining how this affects other verses on the One Piece verse page.
first the definition of haki as we have it on the wiki is correct and probably shouldnt be changed, here I copypaste just to have everyone on the same page:
Busōshoku Haki (Color of Armaments): A form of Haki that allows the user to create an "invisible armor" around themselves. With that, they can protect himself from attacks, and if trained well, use it to deliver stronger attacks. Besides the increase of strength, it is the only form of attack that doesn't involve Kairouseki that can hit any Devil Fruit user, being able to hit the user's original body even if it's a Logia user. It can also be used in weapons.
We focus on the last tidbit, were it says "Being able to hit the user's original body".Haki is able to apply the full force of a characters attack to an enemy, bypassing any superpower that means a defense to them, hitting their original form, for example, Luffy resisting blunt force gets negated, and even tought he still retain his rubber properties, he get's hit as if he didn't, this means that when we hit luffy with a haki imbued attack, we're counting it as luffy's own durability with NO resistance. Haki then takes into account the user's "body" when their powers are not activated, This is a very important distinction due a recent chapter'r showing us an interesting interaction, Luffy trying to punch Prometheus (Who is a ball of concentrated fire given life by another character's power) with haki, said exchange didn't harm prometheus at all, and Luffy even pointed out that "it was worse than a logia". We know by this that haki is NOT a soul attack (As prometheus is confirmed to have a soul giving him life), instead, Haki doesn't work on him because he has no true body that can be hurted by blunt force, he is simply a ball of fire.
with this we have a guideline for what kind of things haki can negate:
-Intangibility (so long as the character in question has to "turn on" said intangibility, indicating they have a real body, characters like Mirio Togata )
-Elemental Dispersion (So long as the character has to turn on said dispersion, Characters like Juvia Lockser and Kona )
-Passive Elemental Mimicry (if the character has or has had a NON-powered self, or in the least has to activate said power, Examples in verse include Monkey D. Luffy , Jozu and Daz Bones , similar characters from other verses then would apply, such as Mr. Fantastic , someone also pointed out Colossus but I don't know the character enough)
It would NOT work on:
-Power generated armor (shown multiple times in the series, cases like Pica and Charlotte Cracker , this is were the colossus thing came to mind as his profile says "turning to metal" instead of "Coating in metal")
-Things that "from birth" are passively intangible or indestructible (Several stands come to mind, particularly Yellow Temperance and The Fool , if it hits the stand, not the user)
-Passive power after effects (Haki only Bypasses the power, it doesnt negate it's existance, so unless the user's armament haki is strong enough, they can hit people made out of acid or fire but will suffer damage)
It should be pointed that even when haki bypasses the power enhancement, it doesn't bypass the target's real body's durability, for example, after getting the gomu gomu no mi powers, luffy Gained resistance to blunt force, but he has become much stronger by himself and not only by his power, being able to survive hits from blackbeard when he nullifies his rubber powers, or being hit by other haki users even pre-timeskip.
But here comes the hard discussion part, would it be applicable to characters who use Stats-Amps and transformations? to put a couple examples, If we punch All Might with a Haki-enhanced punch, Would be hurting his little scrawny self? If we don't take regen into account, would we hit base Ba instead of Amped Ban when he uses Hunter Fest? If you hit Awakened Garou , Would you be hurting his base self or his Awakened state? in regards of that last one, what about the Humans who turned monsters by eating monster cells?
TL
R: Should we give Haki users "durability negation/Bypass" on their power lists?
