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Broken Gods- Yhwach vs Iihiko Shshime

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So uhh

As much as I want to say Almighty gg

I don't know if any of his abilities would actually kill Iihiko cause lolnotanattack

I don't know if Iihiko's immortality and resurrection negation works on Yhwach's type of resurrection, I'm pretty sure it should

If Yhwach somehow manages to kill Iihiko he might also get hit with loltype6

But this doesn't matter since Iihiko can't see Yhwach and afaik Yhwach can't really hurt or kill Iihiko so incon I guess?
 
Iihiko ignores the bfr since he can't even see it to recognize it in the first place gg ez

What sternritter power even lets him bfr I don't remember
 
Lihiko doesn't get affected by abilities that affect him

BFR doesn't affect him, it just sends him somewhere
 
Huh bfr should be added to all of his keys then because it's only listed on his last key

Also Iihiko has ignored things that don't affect him directly and bfr does affect him

Well this is a stomp then Iihiko can't see Yhwach and Yhwach can affect him

P.s its an i not an l garg
 
Doesn't Iihiko's type 6 only work when there's a new vessel for him to possess? He's only possessed prepared body doubles created by the Shiranui family.

Also, when has Iihiko ignored things that don't affect him directly?
 
@agnaa

Hansode wasn't prepared and she was still possessed

Well attack reflection or redirection for one unless that is considered part of irreversible destruction. If so

Stat amps used by Medaka and Ajimu didn't work as they stated none of their abilities worked that would include stat amps and erasing time with all fiction in addition to the absurd amount of Ajimu's skills that don't affect Iihiko at all that were listed

Power copying doesn't really affect him directly and that didn't work

There are probably more examples but I'd have to look through the chapters again


Either way thinking about it now I don't know if he could type 6 Yhwach since he is technically a soul so this is a stomp
 
She wasn't fully prepared but she was partially prepared. Why would the Shiranui family bother preparing bodies if they didn't need to to preserve Iihiko? It also seems strange that Iihiko died for good when punching himself instead of just possessing another body.

The stat amps probably did work, since Medaka and Ajimu stated that none of their abilities worked on him.
 
Iihiko didn't die for good though he was still alive he was just kinda punched out of Hansode's body

Mister Unknown also was stated to not work along with mother's task

Also Medaka's words are

"I used every single skill I could learn with my The End regardless of their appearance. But none of them worked."
 
That's not even Iihiko. The echo says "Wrong, the being you called Shishime Iihiko was thoroughly defeated... I, who remained, am just his echo."

Mister Unknown could have failed because it couldn't trick Iihiko's perception, Mother's Task is inapplicable and I don't think it was explicitly mentioned.

I know that Ajimu's words were different, but I'd have to look to see what Medaka said.
 
Well people Iihiko has killed before have been shown to not be able to come back through resurrection so Irreversible Destruction likely just prevented his type 6 from working

Mother's task was one of the few skills medaka actually named in her list of skills that didn't work before saying that no skills at all worked. Mister Unknown doesn't really affect Iihiko directly but I digress.

I don't remember Ajimu's but it was along the lines of "I can't beat him" and then she used her wall of text and got rubber banded
 
Maybe, but then that puts into question many of the events of the series. Why the Shiranui family needed to preserve him, why Iihiko was outraged that his double was being taken (if he could just possess anyone), etc.

When I was talking to Earl about it I used your argument and he told me that the quote explicitly said that Medaka's/Ajimu's skills didn't work on him.

Maybe we're going off of different translations, could you show the scans?
 
This is all kind of irrelevant though since Iihiko has no way to hurt Yhwach and his type 6 wouldn't work on a soul so this should be closed
 
Sure but I've heard these arguments in other threads and I'd like to address them.

After reading what I think is the relevant chapter, Medaka had said:

But none of them worked. They didn't even reach him. No... It's like he didn't even notice that I used a bunch of skills...
Also, if she couldn't use skills to amp herself, why could she transform? Also, I haven't double checked this yet, but by this point in the series her Kurokami Phantom used Theme Song to stop her from taking damage when using it, so she may have amped herself with Theme Song when she used Kurokami Phantom.
 
Do not fear my people for i am here. Anyway when it comes to styles i usually let Iap handle things, now it's my field of expertise in Medaka Box. Anyway now on to answering the problems here:

 
Ah, I never really understood what was meant by that "target of the legend" line. While this source could be wrong, the Medaka Box wiki says that only somewhat prepared Shiranui family doubles can be possessed, so I'm not sure what's more consistent within the text. It might have been slightly retconned by the point of the Medaka vs Iihiko fight.

Iihiko's recognition seems like another thing from Medaka Box that could be argued two different ways, with two insanely different levels of power, but such that both ways have equal backing from the text. There's a few other examples of this I've had, but the only one that comes to mind right now is "The Hero" as an actual in-text thing (a character ability) or a metatextual thing that's merely alluded to (emergent from the author's writing, like other heroes always winning).
 
More like she was the "perfect double". So the most suitable person to continue the legend, not the only one.

1-A Ajimu comes to mind when it comes to levels of power

Anyway on to the actual recognition ability. Imma explain it here then copy paste this on the blog if i make it. First lemme copy paste what i said above:

About working "on him" or "working at all". It could be debated either way. Medaka's exact words are: "But none of them worked. They didn't even reach him. No...it's like he didn't even notice that i used a bunch of skills". But all of the skills she mentioned have a direct effect. The problem comes once you analyze it a bit more. He doesn't like passively nullify skills and he doesn't even nullify skills at all (it's another thing i will explain it). Kumagawa could use his skills just fine even though he was in the same building as Iihiko (vs Hansode), but against him, they didn't work? It's based on the intention. So basically:

  • Misogi uses All Fiction to beat Hansode, that's fine. Misogi uses All Fiction to attack or fight Iihiko, that's not ok.
  • Ajimu uses teleporting skill to move around, that's ok. Ajimu uses teleporting skills to dodge Iihiko's attack, that's not ok, it won't work.
  • Medaka uses the buffing skills she copied from Ajimu, that's ok. Medaka uses said buffing skills to beat Iihiko, that's not ok.
I'll try to explain now. As i stated above, they never work when it's intended to fight Iihiko, i'll detail the Medaka case. Medaka uses x skill to buff her striking strength to planet level. She uses it to blow the moon somewhere, that's ok. Medaka punches Iihiko with that same strength, the extra strength won't exist, cus he won't recognize the extra strength as being a part of it. So if the ability is used on him, he won't recognize it no matter what more a case of "I don't believe I can be outdone by such a skill". Which is why he also negates any defensive or buffing skill even though they don't affect him.

So if you use an ability on someone when near Iihiko, it will work. If you use it ON or to defeat Iihiko it won't. Similarly to the stamina case. It is perfectly fine to fight around Iihiko, the stamina will regen, the stamina when you're fighting Iihiko specifically won't regen.

This my take on the ability. With how Medaka Box is constructed and written it obviously allows for other points of view, but i only found this point of view that answers everything.
 
I don't like conflating about the stamina part. Stamina doesn't regen because of irreversible destruction, his subjective immunity is a separate ability.
 
Agnaa said:
I don't like conflating about the stamina part. Stamina doesn't regen because of irreversible destruction, his subjective immunity is a separate ability.
Click to expand...
Was it ever stated that they are different abilities at all? I can find you an explanation for why they are the same ability but we treat it differently for simplicity's sake.
 
Anyway thoughts on the fight. Iihiko badly stomps. It's only a matter of time before Iihiko just gets annoyed of the mosquito bites and nukes the whole place (he can still interact with yhwach, he just can't see him).

Either that or Yhwach dies due to the aftermath of hitting Iihiko (Medaka literally died from punching Iihiko too hard xD).
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Was it ever stated that they are different abilities at all? I can find you an explanation for why they are the same ability but we treat it differently for simplicity's sake.
Click to expand...
I don't think it was explained that they were different abilities.

But I don't think it was explained that they are the same ability.

I remember the text mentioning that the true horror of his defense isn't the subjective immunity but the irreversible destruction, implying that they're separate.
 
My bad, I got the "true horror" part mixed up. I was referring to these scans from Chapter 178. The "true horror" was in reference to Irreversible Destruction's defensive part. Her attack got past the subjective immunity, but was still vulnerable to Irreversible Destruction's defense.

EDIT: Interestingly enough, a few pages later it says that when fighting Iihiko the physical strength you expend is considered "damage" and won't heal.

EDIT 2: The next page after that, it mentions that Medaka used the "proper version" of Kurokami Phantom when facing Iihiko in Shiranui village. This is the version that utilizes Theme Song, showing that self-buffs work against Iihiko.
 
Well yes, cus he recognized her ability doesn't mean the damage she feels will heal. Him recognizing the ability would somehow get past the ability being broken.

Yeah that's the stamina i was talking about.
 
I get that, but it seems to imply that it's two separate abilities.

I know, but you used it as a point of comparison for how his subjective immunity works, when it's a separate ability.

Also there's the "Medaka can use Theme Song against Iihiko" thing that seems pretty important for how subjective immunity works.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Anyway Iihiko stomps Yhwach easily here. Someone should close this.
Click to expand...
Also it's weird that there's two people asking it to be closed for a stomp, but they each think a different character stomps...
 
Paul Frank said:
This is all kind of irrelevant though since Iihiko has no way to hurt Yhwach and his type 6 wouldn't work on a soul so this should be closed
Click to expand...
 
He (agreed with) Yhwach BFRs Iihiko, since BFR doesn't affect Iihiko, just sends him elsewhere.
 
I mean, she didn't show it.
 
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