• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Bringing Xenosaga to a Higher Dimension: Cosmology

Magicomethkuon

They/Them
1,300
1,404
Agree: 10 (7 users, 2 staff admin, 1 Calc Staff) @Setsuna_tenma , @Violatas , @DarkDragonMedeus (Staff Vote) , @Gonzalo , @BLS , @Luckyfun , @Celestial_Pegasus (Staff Vote), @JTGamer96, @CloverDragon03 (Calculation Staff Vote), @AdamVhenJP
Disagree: 1 (1 staff admin) @Firestorm808 (Only possibly agrees with +2 dimensions from the Imaginary Domain, one of space and one of time, hasn't discussed the upper domain yet)
Neutral: 1 (1 staff) @LordGriffin1000 (Staff Vote)

Discussing the idea, waiting vote: -

Good evening. Noticing that Xenosaga pages are missing from these forums, I decided to bring this franchise to the wiki. To remain comprehensive and true to the standards followed here, things will be done one thread at a time.

In this first thread, my intention is to lay the cosmologys's foundations and have an accepted rating for the Universe. For the second thread and using the results from this one, a profile for the character U-DO will be made. The following blog has all the information needed to support this cosmology and its proposed higher-dimensional rating.


From it, my suggestion of rating summarized is as follows:

Dimensional Universe:
Real Number Domain — 4 Dimensions. (4-D)
Imaginary Number Domain — A perfect mirror and counterpart of the Real Number Domain. Infinitely transcendent to it. This is also where all concepts, souls and consciousness are found. Real Space and Time are infinitely inferior. With the existence of its own Imaginary Time and Imaginary Space backed by the source material, the conclusion drawn is that another 4 Dimensions exist, corresponding to each of the present in the Real Number Domain. (8-D)
Upper Domain
Upper Domain, 1st Layer — Transcends everything from the Lower Domain that is made of all the Real and Imaginary Structures. All of its dimensions, time and space, imaginary or real and concepts. Any energy from this Domain no matter how small the fraction is transcendent to the Dimensional Universe to an extent where an avatar, terminal existence manifested in the Lower Domain can still produce Infinite Amounts of Energy. Has its own subjective flow of time, although it can not be said for sure if this Time even is the same concept as the time of the Dimensional Universe. Through it U-DO observes the endless reset of the Dimensional Universe. (At least 2 more dimensions, of Upper Domain Space and Time. 10-D).
Upper Domain, 2nd Layer — This structure has never been explored in depth. It's unknown if even U-DO exists in it, but being the Will of the Universe itself it is likely. Because it is a second layer to the Upper Domain, it should at minimum be of equal scale to the First Layer. (At least 2 more dimensions. 12-D.)

If accepted, this meets the bare minimum requirements for a 12 Dimensional Tier of 1-B for the Cosmology. Which will also be UDO's tier. If I have missed or misunderstood something in the construction of this argument and of the forum's standards, I am open for discussion and adjustment of the cosmology's accepted extent.
 
Last edited:
agree i think upper domain can qualify for 1A
Thanks for feedback. About 1-A I thought about it but I have to admit that I've never been the most knowledgeable about the standards that qualify for that tier in these forums. If the staff judges that transcendence from all dimensions and its concepts as detailed in the blog is enough and I am unknowingly downplaying the cosmology, I won't be opposed to the higher rating.
 
I know next to nothing about the Xenosaga, but will this affect Xenoblade people too?
Short answer, I'm not sure but it could.
Long answer is that it's a tricky question because I haven't played Blade yet, but from a conversation I had with DarkDragonMedeus it appears that the VSB forums currently accept a connection between Xenoblade and Saga as canon. If this stays true and I didn't misunderstand, then it could because of KOS-MOS and potential overlapping of concepts from the two works.
 
I figured someone would try and bring Xenosaga back eventually.

Anyways, not an expert on Saga myself, but what you posted seems fine.
Short answer, I'm not sure but it could.
Long answer is that it's a tricky question because I haven't played Blade yet, but from a conversation I had with DarkDragonMedeus it appears that the VSB forums currently accept a connection between Xenoblade and Saga as canon. If this stays true and I didn't misunderstand, then it could because of KOS-MOS and potential overlapping of concepts from the two works.
Personally I'm still iffy on cross scaling Blade with Saga since the connections are still mostly very very meta, but admittedly Xenoblade 3 Future Redeemed did make the argument more solid than its been prior.
 
I figured someone would try and bring Xenosaga back eventually.

Anyways, not an expert on Saga myself, but what you posted seems fine.

Personally I'm still iffy on cross scaling Blade with Saga since the connections are still mostly very very meta, but admittedly Xenoblade 3 Future Redeemed did make the argument more solid than its been prior.
Justice for Saga, it does deserve a presence here. KOS-MOS and U-DO are timeless. About Saga-Blade I concur that avoiding cross verse scaling is the better option for the timebeing, but if that connection already is or becomes the widely-accepted norm I wouldn't put as much effort to dispute it against the majority.

And thank you for the feedback, I'll add your vote too.
 
I agree. On a sidenote there is an insane amount of work, effort and good reasoning put into the blog, nevermind getting the scans, good job.
Thank you, this means a lot. The effort was challenging but worth it in the end. I think it is important to have Xenosaga in these forums even if the franchise isn't among the better known. The ideas that Xenosaga's narrative engages with could provide a frame of reference and examples for qualifications in tiers, debates. Because of this utilization of concepts, it could make for engaging profiles and be valuable to compare with other narratives and standards.

It won't be fast or easy to implement everything, but I think there's been progress.
If no other staff members comment here in 2 days, I think you should call some content moderators
I still have Ultima's evaluation coming, that is something. But my revision happened at the same time his tier system revision did. I think that his focus lies more on the impact of that one, for now. But I'll try contacting some more. I saw in a thread that it should be thread moderators or admins for CRTs, though.
 
Alright so sadly, this stuff hits above my knowledge threshold regarding this topic and I've lost most of my drive when dealing with tier 1. However this also means I have no counter arguments for the OP so my current stance would be neutral, that doesn't mean i don't get some of what is in the blog regarding these upper and lower domains but I'd be lying if I said I had an absolute understanding.

If more knowledgeable staff agree I will not argue. I'll try and continue looking through the blog when able to give a more definitive answer though but I will not hold this thread up as I know the OP would like to get it over with.
 
Alright so sadly, this stuff hits above my knowledge threshold regarding this topic and I've lost most of my drive when dealing with tier 1. However this also means I have no counter arguments for the OP so my current stance would be neutral, that doesn't mean i don't get some of what is in the blog regarding these upper and lower domains but I'd be lying if I said I had an absolute understanding.

If more knowledgeable staff agree I will not argue. I'll try and continue looking through the blog when able to give a more definitive answer though but I will not hold this thread up as I know the OP would like to get it over with.
Thank you, Griffin. Means a lot that you took the time to give the thread a look, and I do appreciate the honest to heart feedback. Will be including your vote as neutral and thanks once again.
 
I don't really think the blog comes to the same conclusions as what's being proposed here? In what i looked at, which i have to say my interest in tier 1 stuff is low, i think the verse is indeed tier 1 due to having transcendent realms with different temporal axis, and transcending things into insignificance, but in terms of the degree of things, this realm is 8-D, this is 12-D, it doesn't clearly state that, unless i am missing something.

Anyway you guys can put me as neutral here.
 
I don't really think the blog comes to the same conclusions as what's being proposed here? In what i looked at, which i have to say my interest in tier 1 stuff is low, i think the verse is indeed tier 1 due to having transcendent realms with different temporal axis, and transcending things into insignificance, but in terms of the degree of things, this realm is 8-D, this is 12-D, it doesn't clearly state that, unless i am missing something.

Anyway you guys can put me as neutral here.
Above all, thanks for the feedback. About the number of dimensions, I have summarized them here because the proposal of 12-D is the one I had in mind with the blog. I wanted to present that number here before writing it down there but rest assured, the proposal is the same.

Now, why do I suggest 12-D. The imaginary domain should have four dimensions because in the section that elaborates on the dual nature of the Domains, it's proven that time and space are non-exceptional to the rule. Therefore because the Real has four dimensions, the Imaginary would also. The sections about imaginary time and space explaining how these also have strong indicators of superiority, even if they come from a higher plane of existence.

For the Upper Domain, it is said to have another dual-layered nature and its own concept of time. So there would be in my interpretation two levels (one of space, one of time) in one half of the upper Domain, and another two in the other half of the upper domain. Shown with the lower domain, the bottommost half mirrors but is also overshadowed by the higher. It would be a strange proposal to me to assume that the Upper Domain's other half would not be at least equal in levels to the first, when in the Lower Domain the second half was comparatively more complex.

This is the model that I thought would better err in the side of caution, by discarding anything that doesn't have aspects of how the world is structured to back it up. But like I said at the start.
If I have missed or misunderstood something in the construction of this argument and of the forum's standards, I am open for discussion and adjustment of the cosmology's accepted extent.
Thank you once again, will count your vote now.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top