Bringing back things that were removed and adding some things. (Tensura)

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Hello everyone!

I hope you like my thread and if you have any complaints, don't hesitate to say so.

First of all, High-Godly Regeneration Negation was previously removed for Yuuki because it canceled the skills before launching or strange things, but not their effects, well Anti-skill is able to also negate the effects of the skills.

(Edit)

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(Text: With that, Yuuki unleashed a right roundhouse kick. It was just the same asbefore, and I easily blocked it with my left arm. But the next instant, my entireupper arm shattered, as if it burst open.“…Huh?”I backstepped to safety, honestly surprised as I blankly stared at my arm.Concern. The Universal Barrier of Uriel, Lord of Vows, has been broken. This isbelieved to be due to the subject Yuuki Kagurazaka’s extra-singular Anti-Skillconstitution.Um, wait a minute. So my Absolute Defense doesn’t work on him?! In fact, ishe pretty much nullifying all my attacks right now?Affirmative. Anti-Skill is a spiritual-body constitution that suppresses magicand skills. It is likely that only holy-blade skills and certain other Arts will beeffective against him.)

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(Edit 2)

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Secondly beings comparable to True Dragon can work on Yuuki even after he tries to cancel it.

(Edit)

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My proposal:

Let High-Godly Regeneration Negation return and let beings comparable to True Dragon have resistance to its Anti-skill.

Making Rimuru (True Dragon key) gain the High-Godly Regeneration Negation resistance that Yuuki gets in this thread.

I would also like to ask my colleagues if Yuuki needs to have his own page of things that he denies with his Anti-skil Skill or not

Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree: ActuallySpaceMan42. GarrixianXD.

 

[Tatsumi504]

First of all, High-Godly Regeneration Negation was previously removed for Yuuki because it canceled the skills before launching or strange things, but not their effects, well Anti-skill is able to also negate the effects of the skills.

https://imgur.com/gallery/anti-skill-Tcr2JsG

You're hyper fixating on the word "effect" however "effect" isn't being used in the way you think it is. Stormbreak is a combination magic and art that has a primary ability and a secondary one and anti-skill nullified the secondary ability. This isn't the same as nullifying effects of healing or regeneration.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

It could be, but Yuuki still cancels the effects.

Also, I don't know what the two things you mention have to do with each other, since the first is simply a strong blow.

And the second one is deadly for Yuuki because he will destroy it, plus he is already active and touched it, the effects will do the job for him but no, it was canceled.

It is then mentioned how Raphael tries to interfere but can't due to his Anti-skill.

Skills and magic don't work, or rather the effects of them, like Maribell's, even if she mastered it she could free herself from it with her Anti-skill.

The Ark's magic also nullified its effects so it didn't work on him.

I also wonder if you cast something and cancel it, don't you cancel the effects of it?

From Uriel, the effect of his ability is to raise a shield, but Yuuki nullifies it.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

My proposal:

Let High-Godly Regeneration Negation return and let beings comparable to True Dragon have resistance to its Anti-skill.

I agree to this, and I have aIready expIained my reasoning before

First, which scan are you specificaIIy referring to by the It negates their effect as weII? There are three of them

AIright, so, I read the debunk, and I wouId say that itseIf has a fIaw

Regeneration negation, in itseIf, is mereIy Power NuIIification that nuIIifies things reIated to Regeneration, much Iike resistance negation, so as per the definition :

Power Nullification, or Negation, is the ability to simply nullify the powers and abilities of others, negating their effects. The mechanisms by which this effect is accomplished and their restrictions vary from character to character, but the ability is often limited to a certain type of power, such as supernatural phenomena in general, or magic. In some cases, an ability can only be negated once it's been used or activated, but in others, powers can be nullified before they're even utilized. The effect may be temporary or permanent, and may be restricted by touch, or be something that the user can apply to any ability they see, or within a field that negates any powers within.

Some characters accomplish these effects through applications of other abilities rather than a standalone ability in itself, such as using Power Modification to render powers useless. In addition, there are characters who combine this ability with Power Mimicry to not just seal the abilities of others, but steal them for themselves; this is known as Power Absorption.

It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter. It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and a character may be resistant to the ability (at least in one of its forms), preventing it from having its usual effects.

However, certain forms of Power Nullification may prevent the usage of powers through less direct methods, making resistance less useful and the strength of the ability less relevant.

Thus, even if it simpIy negates the abiIity itseIf from activating, that stiII wouId be Regeneration negation as preventing it from activating coIIectiveIy prevents its effect as weII

As for the debunk itseIf :

This isn't regeneration negation it's just power nullification. Anti-skill is negating the skill "infinite regeneration" thus stopping it from activating at all. The only time this can be regeneration negation is if anti-skill can nullify the regenerative effects (like black flame) of infinite regeneration not nullifying the skill itself.

First off, we do not have any actuaI page for an abiIity caIIed regeneration negation, even in aII the profiIes, we just Iink the regeneration part with the regen page, and the negation part with the NuIIification page, as expIained at the start of this page, this is basicaIIy just nuIIification of regenerative abiIites instead, since assuming that every Power NuII can negate regenerative abiIities wouId be a hard NIf, So I dont see where this thing about onIy negating its effect without negating or preventing the activation of the abiIity itseIf came from


on the other hand, yes, Anti-SkiII not onIy prevents the magic and skiIIs from activating, but prevents their effect as weII, it can nuIIify magic after it has been activated/shot, negate skiIIs Iike urieI even after they have aIready activated, and the Iike, so it can

• negate an effect by preventing an abiIity from activating
• negate the effect itseIf even after the abiIity has been activated

Making Rimuru (True Dragon key) gain the High-Godly Regeneration Negation resistance that Yuuki gets in this thread.

Agree to this, its made pretty cIear that Anti-SkiII doesnt work on True Dragons or true dragon IeveIs in generaI

I would also like to ask my colleagues if Yuuki needs to have his own page of things that he denies with his Anti-skil Skill or not

Unsure about this, but wiII wait and see what others have to say

 

[Incomprehensibleexistence]

Agree

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

I agree

 

[Berga14]

Agree

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Bump

 

[Tatsumi504]

It could be, but Yuuki still cancels the effects.

He didn't, he canceled the secondary ability. That's different from negating the effects of regeneration/healing.

Also, I don't know what the two things you mention have to do with each other, since the first is simply a strong blow.

The first is a strong blow while the other is the power of Veldora's storm magic. Yuuki negated the storm magic

It is then mentioned how Raphael tries to interfere but can't due to his Anti-skill.

What does that have to do with anything?

Skills and magic don't work, or rather the effects of them, like Maribell's, even if she mastered it she could free herself from it with her Anti-skill.

Not implied anywhere. He's negating the skill itself

The Ark's magic also nullified its effects so it didn't work on him.

I also wonder if you cast something and cancel it, don't you cancel the effects of it?

From Uriel, the effect of his ability is to raise a shield, but Yuuki nullifies it.

None of this actually matters, fact of the matter is its simply power nullification. Why don't you just brings scans of him directly nullifying the effect of regenerative skills instead of going through all these mental gymnastics

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

He didn't, he canceled the secondary ability. That's different from negating the effects of regeneration/healing.

Regeneration negation is simpIy Power NuII on regenerative abiIities, whether its done via regenerating the abiIity directIy or simpIy regenerating their effect, doesnt matter

Power Nullification, or Negation, is the ability to simply nullify the powers and abilities of others, negating their effects. The mechanisms by which this effect is accomplished and their restrictions vary from character to character, but the ability is often limited to a certain type of power, such as supernatural phenomena in general, or magic. In some cases, an ability can only be negated once it's been used or activated, but in others, powers can be nullified before they're even utilized. The effect may be temporary or permanent, and may be restricted by touch, or be something that the user can apply to any ability they see, or within a field that negates any powers within.

Some characters accomplish these effects through applications of other abilities rather than a standalone ability in itself, such as using Power Modification to render powers useless. In addition, there are characters who combine this ability with Power Mimicry to not just seal the abilities of others, but steal them for themselves; this is known as Power Absorption.

AdditionaIIy, he aIso negated the intrinsic skiII of shion which grants regeneration, this in itseIf is cIear negation of regeneration

Not implied anywhere. He's negating the skill itself

AIready in their abiIity page

Power Nullification (2 layers; Can negate shut down Magic and Skills when it came contact to him.[5]

AdditionaIIy, its aIso present where the Iayers got accepted in Iayered evaIuation thread and has been accepted

Passive 3 Layers : Yuuki's Anti-Skill is similar in nature to Hinata, passive, it can cancel any attack coming his way, including any Magic, or Physical Attack, can even nullify Ultimate Skills, he has it as an attribute so even his normal attacks posses the attribute called "Anti-skill"

Hinata;s skiII itseIf negates heaIing-type on her own seIf

• Passive Purification (Type 3; Healing Potions doesn't work on her even when she died, all magicules were disassembled when it goes near her neutralizing any effects on her)

None of this actually matters, fact of the matter is its simply power nullification. Why don't you just brings scans of him directly nullifying the effect of regenerative skills

Refer to above, additionaIIy, the basic principIe here is that he can negate skiIIs, whereas there are aIso skiIIs that grant regenerative abiIities, thus, he can negate said regenerative abiIites, and this is not simpIy an assumption as he does indeed negate them, as he did with Shion

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

First of all, High-Godly Regeneration Negation was previously removed for Yuuki because it canceled the skills before launching or strange things, but not their effects, well Anti-skill is able to also negate the effects of the skills.

https://imgur.com/gallery/anti-skill-Tcr2JsG
Secondly beings comparable to True Dragon can work on Yuuki even after he tries to cancel it.

https://imgur.com/gallery/resistance-to-yuukis-ability-beings-comparable-to-true-dragon-LXQBbfN

BTW
repIace the scans, the Iinks are broken

 

[Tatsumi504]

Regeneration negation is simpIy Power NuII on regenerative abiIities, whether its done via regenerating the abiIity directIy or simpIy regenerating their effect, doesnt matter

We've been over this before. Take a famous character with regeneration like wolverine for example. Nullifying/Removing his mutant gene isn't regeneration negation. Stopping him from regenerating without nullifying his mutant gene is regen neg.

AdditionaIIy, he aIso negated the intrinsic skiII of shion which grants regeneration, this in itseIf is cIear negation of regeneration

Still just power null not regen neg.

Hinata;s skiII itseIf negates heaIing-type on her own seIf

Irrelevant to the thread and that's just purification.

Just bring scans where a regenerative skill was functioning but their wounds weren't healing, it's as simple as that.

 

[Mizuki67]

We've been over this before. Take a famous character with regeneration like wolverine for example. Nullifying/Removing his mutant gene isn't regeneration negation. Stopping him from regenerating without nullifying his mutant gene is regen neg.

That is a funny argument u are trying to make ngl. At the end of the day nullifying a regen ability is still considered regen negation. Tell me if there is such rules that exists in this forum or u just made it up. If there is one I have a few reasons to disagree on it

 

[Tatsumi504]

That is a funny argument u are trying to make ngl. At the end of the day nullifying a regen ability is still considered regen negation. Tell me if there is such rules that exists in this forum or u just made it up. If there is one I have a few reasons to disagree on it

I don't need rules for something that is common sense. There's a difference between nullifying a spell that regenerates stuff and nullifying the regen itself while the spell is active

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

We've been over this before. Take a famous character with regeneration like wolverine for example. Nullifying/Removing his mutant gene isn't regeneration negation. Stopping him from regenerating without nullifying his mutant gene is regen neg.

That anaIogy is not appIicabIe here, Anti-SkiII isnt removing the skiII, it is simpIy nuIIifying it.
And we have went over this before indeed, where every time I have to expIain to you the same thing from the definition page.

Using a character exampIe that might have a unique case to negate this isnt the best argument when the Power NuII page itseIf is supporting my argument instead.

Still just power null not regen neg.

At this point, you are simpIy ignoring any proof or expIanation of mine. Even more so, you stopped repIying to my argument before, but now bring back a simiIar argument again -_-
In any case, I wiII Ieave someone that actuaIIy knows the definition pages to evaIuate this, that is, the staff.

Irrelevant to the thread and that's just purification.

Anti SkiII is a more powerfuI version of Hinata's passive abiIity, which negates the effect of Magic Potions, that is, HeaIing. It is aIready described as HeaIing negation in her profiIe, even.

Just bring scans where a regenerative skill was functioning but their wounds weren't healing, it's as simple as that.

Apologies if I sound rude, but have you even cared to actuaIIy see the scan I gave above about Yuuki negating Shion's regeneration? or are you wiIIingIy ignoring it? In any case, my stance is stiII the same

In any case, I wiII Ieave someone that actuaIIy knows the definition pages to evaluate this, that is, the staff.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Aside from the fact that the scans don't work, I still disagree. Yuuki's anti-skill still negates the skill itself, not the regeneration resulting from the skill itself.

Enough has been talked about this issue so I will just give a example of what staff do in such cases.

Spoiler: Example

Example
Proposal: Regeneration Negation
Statement:

“I do not get it either.” Othinus sighed softly next to his pillow. “Is it because the wound
was cauterized to stop the bleeding, or did Coronzon or Aleister’s attack apply some kind
of special effect? Whatever the case, your right hand is not growing back on its own this
time. ...Of course, I never did know why it was growing back in the past. When I can’t
explain to you why it did what it did, I can’t exactly tell you why things are different this
time."

Context:

Aeon Interference: Coronzon exists beyond the three Aeons of Isis, Osiris, and Horus. This gives her the ability to interfere with the magic of previous Aeons. For example, although Aleister Crowley's healing spell based on the Son of God could heal most of Kamijou Touma's body after he was left near death by Coronzon's Magick: Flaming_Sword, his right hand that had directly received the spell couldn't be healed by a spell belonging to the Aeon of Osiris.

Answer:

Instead of regeneration negation we may as well just give her power null instead of regeneration negation in particular, given that whole Aeon compatibility thing.

In such cases, if preventing regeneration means destroying, interfering with or negating the things that cause regeneration in the first place, such as skills, magic , etc., then it is just power negation, power modification or power destruction.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Anti SkiII is a more powerfuI version of Hinata's passive abiIity,

Hinata's body only shatters magicules on contact, it does not remove/negate any skills. Therefore, Anti-Skill, which negates both magic and skills on contact, is the more powerfuI version of Hinata's ability. What does this have to do with the situation?

 

[Tatsumi504]

That anaIogy is not appIicabIe here, Anti-SkiII isnt removing the skiII, it is simpIy nuIIifying it.
And we have went over this before indeed, where every time I have to expIain to you the same thing from the definition page.

The analogy is perfectly applicable in this case. I did say nullifying/removing since it's possible to nullify mutant genes in x-men.
Yeah we've went over this before and each time I remember your argument being shot down even by evaluating staff once they understood the difference.

Using a character exampIe that might have a unique case to negate this isnt the best argument when the Power NuII page itseIf is supporting my argument instead.

It isn't even a unique case. Take my verse for example... Agronemt is a spell for HG regen, nullifying/destroying agronemt isn't regen negation but someone not regenerating despite the spell being active is regen neg.

At this point, you are simpIy ignoring any proof or expIanation of mine. Even more so, you stopped repIying to my argument before, but now bring back a simiIar argument again -_-
In any case, I wiII Ieave someone that actuaIIy knows the definition pages to evaIuate this, that is, the staff.

I didn't stop replying, there was no need to since we were going in circles.

Anti SkiII is a more powerfuI version of Hinata's passive abiIity, which negates the effect of Magic Potions, that is, HeaIing. It is aIready described as HeaIing negation in her profiIe, even.

Hinata's ability breaks down and disperses the magicules in the potion. I also remember glassman saying it was just purification.

Apologies if I sound rude, but have you even cared to actuaIIy see the scan I gave above about Yuuki negating Shion's regeneration? or are you wiIIingIy ignoring it? In any case, my stance is stiII the same

But I did read the scan and all we know from it is Yuuki nullified ultraspeed regeneration. Nothing suggests ultraspeed regeneration was functioning but Shion's wounds weren't regenerating.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Take my verse for example... Agronemt is a spell for HG regen, nullifying/destroying agronemt isn't regen negation but someone not regenerating despite the spell being active is regen neg.

They are arguing a point that is practically useless anyway.
(Even though I know the reason they insist on this so much is to give their god tiers resistance to the HGR negation...)

"Anti-skill / a spell that negates Agronemt / a virus that suppressing X gene" does not work against a character with exactly the same level of HGR / HGR / Mid regen who does not need a skill / spell / X gene to regenerate initially.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Can someone tell me if they want to insist on continuing to use the argument that the ability cancels it before it activates?

Since Yuuki's feats so far are negating them after activation, there is no claim that Yuuki knows about Shion's Regeneration and they seem to forget that Tensura's regenerative abilities are passive, meaning they are always active since throughout the novel It is not mentioned that the user activates it to regenerate, it does not make sense, just mention the other cases because it explains us better. How does Anti-skillz work? They always say "effects" or "it doesn't work", I'm surprised they keep looking the other way.

Yuuki needs to know which ability to override and see it in action, he overrides them after seeing and touching them when they are in action.

 

[CodeCCLL]

So, after all these examples, is the activation word the only part you are stuck on?

I just call staff to be cautious.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Until now you were always against it, but this message is not for you but for Tatsumi, who wants an example of canceling regeneration after being active, like her spells in her verse as she mentions, but well, you are for it and it won't change, I don't know what the mutant gene has to do with this, you bring a verse that has nothing to do with Tensura, and you don't know how Anti-skill works "correctly" either.

I actually agreed with this before, but after reasoning better, the counterarguments were very wrong, especially: "I override it before it activates."

That counterargument bothered me that they accepted it, since if you look at Anti-skill's feats, it nullifies them when they are in action by touching them.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Until now you were always against it, but this message is not for you but for Tatsumi, who wants an example of canceling regeneration after being active, like her spells in her verse as she mentions,

It seems you're misunderstanding. I'm not asking for scans of Anti-skill nullifying tegenerative skills after being active, I'm asking for scans where anti-skill nullifies regeneration itself and not the skill, magic etc that causes the regeneration. It doesn't matter which was active first, so far as ultraspeed regeneration is what was nullified and not the regeneration itself, then it's just power null.
Basically something along the lines of

X character's ultraspeed regeneration skill is functioning but the wounds aren't healing thanks to Yuukis anti-skill

as opposed to

Yuuki nullified ultraspeed regeneration so x character's wounds can't heal

there's a difference between the two.

Also, I'm a dude. Ignore my pfp, I'm just honoring the queen of 86.

but well, you are for it and it won't change, I don't know what the mutant gene has to do with this, you bring a verse that has nothing to do with Tensura, and you don't know how Anti-skill works "correctly" either.

I'm 100% sure I understand how anti-skill works, it's not complicated.

You need to understand what an analogy is first. The X-gene is the mutation in marvels x-men that gives them their powers and there are drugs, viruses, other mutations that can suppress/nullify the x-gene.
Comparing it with tensura, the x-gene is skill that give regeneration (ultraspeed regen in this case) and anti-skill is the virus/drug/other mutation that suppress/nullifies the x-gene. The reason why nullifying the x-gene doesn't give regen neg is you've removed what grants the regeneration in the first place and that is called circumvention.

Living organisms all have the capacity to heal. Nullifying ultraspeed regen or the x-gene doesn't take that away, it only removes what gave them an accelerated ability to heal.

I actually agreed with this before, but after reasoning better, the counterarguments were very wrong, especially: "I override it before it activates."

There's no actual counter argument. Like I said, it should be common sense, just calm down and think it over.
Overriding before activation doesn't matter, even if anti-skill it overrides after the regeneration skill has almost completed the healing, so far as it's nullifying the skill and not the regen itself, it's simply power null.

That counterargument bothered me that they accepted it, since if you look at Anti-skill's feats, it nullifies them when they are in action by touching them.

Once again, nullifying them when they're in action doesn't matter. So far as it's nullifying the skill, it doesn't matter.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

I'll reply again later with scans and edit the thread as right now imgur isn't working for me.

The server I ran the scans on also went down, so I'll wait for it to come back and respond.

That's all.

Okay, so what you mean is that it nullifies the ability so it doesn't activate it, right?

In other words, does it cancel the ability that makes it activate shields, control it, dominate it, poison it?

If so, like the comment.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Yeah, this example made it clear to me that they're negating the skill that CAUSES the regeneration, not the regeneration effect itself. If they were truly negating regen, their skill would be active and working, but they wouldn't be healing.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Disagree FRA.

 

[Mizuki67]

Yeah, this example made it clear to me that they're negating the skill that CAUSES the regeneration, not the regeneration effect itself. If they were truly negating regen, their skill would be active and working, but they wouldn't be healing.

HGR negation is done by Power Nullification, yes but we have to understand that not all Power Null abilities nullify regen or resurrection abilities unless they are specified. This would also be the same for Yuuki's Anti Skill HGR negation because his ability also nullifies abilities like infinite regeneration. So, I would need to have staff input on this to confirm this

Tensura Digital Lifeform Physiology and Rimuru additions

So as we all know the previous thread did not go very well, but this time I will be addressing the points from here https://vsbattles.com/threads/some-new-abilities-for-rimuru-and-a-new-physiology.169201/ 1) HGR negation is done by Power Nullification, yes but we have to understand that not all...

vsbattles.com

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Yeah, this example made it clear to me that they're negating the skill that CAUSES the regeneration, not the regeneration effect itself. If they were truly negating regen, their skill would be active and working, but they wouldn't be healing.

I disagree with your comment.

1. Yuuki's Ability works when they are activated, that is, when they are fully operational, nowhere in the novel does it indicate that she cancels them before activation, even if we assume that, Yukki does not know information about the abilities of others.

2. The effects of Anti-skill are temporary.

3. In the scans that she showed, it is clearly seen how Uriel, Raphael, Greed, and Alternative were canceled but continued to function correctly.

4. What is the difference? , while the effects of the other skills are done through the user's activation, Shion's Regeneration is done through the user's energy, in other words it is passive and works when the host is injured, the skills it shows are based on the user's energy. place where the user wants to use it, on people, around him, etc.

5. Each skill effect needs to be nullified. The best example of this is Greed, Yuuki canceled it, but the effects on the other victims still worked. Another example is that Yuuki needed to nullify every shield, not just one to get through. Another example is Raphael who tries to interfere with him but is overruled and continues to guide Rimuru.

6. If he denied the Skill that gives him his powers, it would be with a touch and I would agree with you but that is not the case, Raphael, Alternative, Greed, Uriel were still in operation, making it clear that the effects of Anti-skill as I mentioned Previously in point 2 it did not affect them.

7. In all scans Anti-skill overrides every skill effect when it is running, and continues to work correctly.

8. Anti-skill is passive as indicated in Yuuki's profile, and it is not like a field around, but through touch.

Conclusion: The difference between Shion's Regeneration and the other skills is that while Shion's Skill is to regenerate the user, the other skills work by whatever the user wants and where to deploy.

Every hit Yuuki denies fully functioning regeneration and he needs to do it on every wound.

I hope I don't die ignored

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

ActuallySpaceMan makes sense, but I will ping @Elizhaa as requested.