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no , him undoing what the PSK did is him undoing what the PSK did , not part of it.
everything mean everything .
everything mean everything .
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Return everything to the original plane of existence sounds pretty straight forward. Now how would one do that without altering everything set in the past millions of years?
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he wanted to return everything to the original state , before the PSK put his grain of salt in the matter .
he can't do that by just destroying the borders and destroying earth hueco mundo and SS the planet
he can't do that by just destroying the borders and destroying earth hueco mundo and SS the planet
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It isn't, it's just what Ginjo heard
It doesn't even make sense with Yhwach's plan in mind
"The original state of existence" is obviously referring to the reincarnation cycle since that was Yhwach's entire plan, why would he care if the rest of the SS gets destroyed or not if only the SS planet is relevant to his plan? You can't use a single statement from what a character heard (thus not even a reliable statement since he's not even saying it as a fact, just what he heard) over the context of the feat and Yhwach's ideas as a whole
It doesn't even make sense with Yhwach's plan in mind
"The original state of existence" is obviously referring to the reincarnation cycle since that was Yhwach's entire plan, why would he care if the rest of the SS gets destroyed or not if only the SS planet is relevant to his plan? You can't use a single statement from what a character heard (thus not even a reliable statement since he's not even saying it as a fact, just what he heard) over the context of the feat and Yhwach's ideas as a whole
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"It's just what Ginjo heard"
This makes it not valid because? Only a small group of people know anything about the war and Yhwach in general and Ginjo is one of them.
"Original state of existence"
It doesn't say this, it says "original plane of existence". This isn't about a reincarnation cycle which isn't even a tangible thing you can manipulate as far as I know.
"Why would he care"
What do you mean why? He can do whatever he wants. It's in his power, idk why you keep talking about planets.
"Not a reliable statement"
Based off of what again? He got his information from XCUTION which was started by Aura who has all the knowledge about it from Tokinada and more. Heck they're even letting the world know about the existence of the spiritual world and whatnot so clearly they know something. Which makes this pretty baseless.
This makes it not valid because? Only a small group of people know anything about the war and Yhwach in general and Ginjo is one of them.
"Original state of existence"
It doesn't say this, it says "original plane of existence". This isn't about a reincarnation cycle which isn't even a tangible thing you can manipulate as far as I know.
"Why would he care"
What do you mean why? He can do whatever he wants. It's in his power, idk why you keep talking about planets.
"Not a reliable statement"
Based off of what again? He got his information from XCUTION which was started by Aura who has all the knowledge about it from Tokinada and more. Heck they're even letting the world know about the existence of the spiritual world and whatnot so clearly they know something. Which makes this pretty baseless.
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It makes it not valid because that's all you have, a statement from Ginjo that he heard from someone else who we don't even know, you have to consider the validity and reliability of statements and in this case when it doesn't even make sense in terms of the context it's VERY weak
"What do you mean why? He can do whatever he wants. It's in his power, idk why you keep talking about planets."
Because the planets are relevant to his plan, the entirety of the dimension isn't, people get reincarnated on the SS planet, "he can do whatever he wants" isn't even a valid argument to make, this is the equivalent of me saying toneri was going to bust the earth because "it's in his power and he can do whatever he wants" when it makes no sense in the context of his plan
"Based off of what again? He got his information from XCUTION which was started by Aura who has all the knowledge about it from Tokinada and more. So this is pretty baseless."
I already explained why it's not reliable or valid
" This isn't about a reincarnation cycle which isn't even a tangible thing you can manipulate as far as I know."
Except it is, the entirety of the last arc was about the reincarnation cycle, or did you literally miss the dozens of chapters explaining Yhwach's goal was explicitly about the reincarnation cycle?
"What do you mean why? He can do whatever he wants. It's in his power, idk why you keep talking about planets."
Because the planets are relevant to his plan, the entirety of the dimension isn't, people get reincarnated on the SS planet, "he can do whatever he wants" isn't even a valid argument to make, this is the equivalent of me saying toneri was going to bust the earth because "it's in his power and he can do whatever he wants" when it makes no sense in the context of his plan
"Based off of what again? He got his information from XCUTION which was started by Aura who has all the knowledge about it from Tokinada and more. So this is pretty baseless."
I already explained why it's not reliable or valid
" This isn't about a reincarnation cycle which isn't even a tangible thing you can manipulate as far as I know."
Except it is, the entirety of the last arc was about the reincarnation cycle, or did you literally miss the dozens of chapters explaining Yhwach's goal was explicitly about the reincarnation cycle?
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You haven't provided anything against the statement outside of conjecture. If you don't mind I'd like you to post something from the novel or manga that suggest Ginjo pulled the information out of his ass.
Scans of the cycle of souls please, it's not a tangible thing. It's just something that happens due to how the world is setup. And again that statement has nothing to do wth the cycle of reincarnation. It's about the merging of the worlds and the collapse of the dangai in order to bring the old world back as he explained himself in the manga.
Scans of the cycle of souls please, it's not a tangible thing. It's just something that happens due to how the world is setup. And again that statement has nothing to do wth the cycle of reincarnation. It's about the merging of the worlds and the collapse of the dangai in order to bring the old world back as he explained himself in the manga.
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i agree with sigurd , there is nothing out of place with ginjo statement.
even the dangai would have affected and yet it's not a part of the reincarnation cycle.
even the dangai would have affected and yet it's not a part of the reincarnation cycle.
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If the entire page is posted Tokinada confirms what Ginjo just said and Tokinada's plan is to reveal to humans that "Jesus" doesn't exist and what awaits them after they die is a shitty afterlife. What Ginjo heard was told to him by Urahara in Ganju's place in another chapter and Urahara knows this from the manga when he fought Askin.
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2 things.
First, isnt the Muken just a void? Why would creating the muken be given a tier when it wouldnt warrant anything? Creating an infinitely stretching void with no matter cant be given a tier.
Second, what evidence is there that says the SK would have even created the Muken? It's a space that is completely isolated and separated from the soul society. Creating the SS's dimension wouldnt automatically mean the PSK created Muken.
First, isnt the Muken just a void? Why would creating the muken be given a tier when it wouldnt warrant anything? Creating an infinitely stretching void with no matter cant be given a tier.
Second, what evidence is there that says the SK would have even created the Muken? It's a space that is completely isolated and separated from the soul society. Creating the SS's dimension wouldnt automatically mean the PSK created Muken.
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Wrong. Everything outside of the Seireitei is "Soul Society ". This, depending on the context, can refer to both the planet and the space-time itself.TataHakai said:
As you can see , the dimension is also called "Soul Society ".
Tata, in any way this is an unfounded statement. In fact, it matches all the points raised here.
- In Yhwach's own words, he would 'gather' life and death again.
- Ginjo's statement states that he would bring all his original existence (Where life and death coexisted).
- The death of the Rei-o results in the destruction not only of the planets, but of the dimensions. Which proves that it's the dimensions that need to be ' sustained '.
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"you haven't provided anything against the statement outside of conjecture. If you don't mind I'd like you to post something from the novel or manga that suggest Ginjo pulled the information out of his ass."
He literally says "he has heard", there's no objective statement here it's not even from Yhwach himself on his plans, so it's pretty irrelevant to what Yhwach wanted to do
Especially when we DID hear what Yhwach wanted to do and it was nothing like "what ginjo heard", the statement is ridicilously unreliable
"Scans of the cycle of souls please, it's not a tangible thing. It's just something that happens due to how the world is setup.
Dude no one is saying it's tangible, but the worlds set up was what yhwach was going to disrupt because it would affect the cycle of souls, again there's NO need for him to affect the entire realms, there's no statement from yhwach specifically that the entire realms would be destroyed and more importantly it doesn't make any sense within the context of his plan
When you're trying to upgrade a character by millions to trillions of times above his current rating you need more proof than "he heard" from a character that isn't even himself.
He literally says "he has heard", there's no objective statement here it's not even from Yhwach himself on his plans, so it's pretty irrelevant to what Yhwach wanted to do
Especially when we DID hear what Yhwach wanted to do and it was nothing like "what ginjo heard", the statement is ridicilously unreliable
"Scans of the cycle of souls please, it's not a tangible thing. It's just something that happens due to how the world is setup.
Dude no one is saying it's tangible, but the worlds set up was what yhwach was going to disrupt because it would affect the cycle of souls, again there's NO need for him to affect the entire realms, there's no statement from yhwach specifically that the entire realms would be destroyed and more importantly it doesn't make any sense within the context of his plan
When you're trying to upgrade a character by millions to trillions of times above his current rating you need more proof than "he heard" from a character that isn't even himself.
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Please show a single scan or statement from the entire manga that proves thisGDEM said:
Because as soon as the SK died there were earthquakes on earth, not throughout the universe or the entire dimension of the human world, on earth
We saw SS planet being destroyed, not the entire dimension, only the planet
The human world in yhwach's planets refers to simply earth but yet for some reason soul society isn't about the parallel planet? Yeah miss me with that headcanon
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- Yhwach says life & death are meant to become one and fused together. < His goal.
- Life & Death didn't existed until Reiō created those along with the rest of every other dimension which are made of different matter; Kishi & Reishi.
- Ginjo heard that Yhwach wanted everything to become like their original plane of existence a.k.a. life & death were meant to become one again.
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Yes, he heard. But that does not make the information invalid, as long as it does not contradict and is not disregarded by the work itself.TataHakai said:
Why would the author give the wrong information? There are cases where, for example, the author purposely of the wrong information so that it is subsequently denied by the work.
This is not the case here, in fact, the true purpose of this statement was to expose that the purpose of Tokinada was different from that of Yhwach. In other words, there's literally no reason for this to be a wrong statement.
Just 'listening' doesn't mean you're wrong. For example, I 'heard' from someone you would 'cry' with this update.
"Not just the Soul Society... but all that is connected to it... Dangai... Hueco Mundo... The World of the living... it will all collapse!"TataHakai said:
Why is that referring to the dimensions? One answer is Dangai.
The Dangai is a space-time that exists between the world of the living and the Soul Society. It connects the two worlds functioning as a passage between them.
Question: What is connected to Dangai
A) Planet
B) Space-time
10 billion points for those who hit!
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If people really want to make an argument about the new and better translations, then honestly they should wait till the translations reach the Volume 3 section where Ichibei explains the past.Antvasima said:
I can see why people are trying to make this upgrade and the basis for it even if I personally don't agree with it now, but they should at least wait for the better translations.
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^Xerkser500 said:
People should also stop using the Dangai as an argument here when we dont even know how big it is. Being called a space-time is worthless without a quantifiable size, which is never given.
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Even if the translations of MissStormCaller are better. If compared to the Scheneizel, the meaning does not change dramatically.IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
For example, a snippet we were just talking about.
This is the translation of the MissStormCaller:
"At first, Ginjō was of the opinion that the religious cult were associates of the Quincies, and that the 'new king' was perhaps referring to Yhwach.
However, he has heard that Yhwach's purpose was not to rule over the three worlds, but to eliminate the boundaries of the three worlds itself and return everything to the original plane of existence."
This is the translation of the Scheneizel:
"At first, I thought that this cult had connections to the Quincies and that the 'new king' spoken about in the prophecy referred to Yhwach.
But Yhwach's objective was not to rule over the three worlds, but to merge them into one, to turn everything back to the way they originally were."
In the end, both of them have the same meaning. Yhwach's goal was to bring the world to its former existence.
The same goes for the information brought from volume 3, some translation errors do not alter the final meaning. In fact, these information coincide with those given by Yhwach, in the official translation.
- "Using his powers of the Almighty as the 'keystone', the five of them created the foundation of a new world. Soul Society, the Material World and Hueco Mundo. Life and death were separated. The Soul Cycle ushered in a new era."
- "The Living world. The Soul Society. Hueco Mundo. They all should have become one. Life and death were meant to be combined as one."
The only stretch that may sound contradictory is this, but I can explain.
- "During that age, all of creation was in a state of ambiguity. There was neither life nor death; progression and regression flickered to and fro. Swaying and swaying slowly; this waning and waxing world waited for a hundred million years to cool down. Eventually, Hollows became a part of the circulation of souls."
Currently, if you are alive, you are on the world of the Living. If you're dead, either you're in the Soul Society or the Hueco world.
It is exactly this concept what was not in the primordial world, where dead's and living's coexisted.
Minimal translation inconsistencies do not shake what has been proposed here.
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Soul King created "Reishi" everything in Soul Society is made out of "Reishi" so Muken which is "in" and "connected" to the Dangai will also colapse means that Soul King created the Muken or he converted a infinity stretching void into matter and move it to Soul Society.Xerkser500 said:
There are two conclusions.
1. Soul King created the Muken.
2. Soul King changed an infinite stretching voice from Kishi into Reishi and moved it to Soul Society.
All of this is base on Soul King creating Reishi and Muken been connected to Soul Society, Dangai, Hueco Mundo and the Living World which began to collapse altogether.
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Thing is, the Muken is not apart of the Soul Society. It's specifically stated to be a realm that is completely seperated from the outside world, the soul society. It's pretty much the ROSAT of Bleach so to speak. Destroying the soul society doesnt automatically result in the Muken's destruction either.
Not only that, the Muken doesnt look like it's made of Reishi. It's a realm of nothingness.
Not only that, the Muken doesnt look like it's made of Reishi. It's a realm of nothingness.
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- Muken only entrance is in Soul Society, if destroyed everyone will stay trap in there forever. -Kyoraku's words.
- Muken was crumbling when all the other dimensions that are connected began to crumble. -Aizen told Kyoraku that Muken was trembling which meant Soul Society was about to get destroyed.
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Muken is connected to Soul King's creation because it was mentioned to be crumbling as well.AppleLord said:Muken (a void that stretches for infinity) also had an earthquake and Dangai was mentioned to collapse too with everything that's connected to Soul Society the afterlife. Dangai has is own space-time and it connects the dimensions.
I don't think that stabilizing an infinite void would give you a tier here
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It's obviously connected to the Soul Society via an entrance. That doesnt mean the Muken would be destroyed along with the Soul Society. We only see it shaking when Shunsui goes to see Aizen. Shunsui even says that "it's nearing the end for the Soul Society" but never says the Muken would end with it.AppleLord said:
Besides, at the end of the day, the Muken is stilll a void of nothingness that expands infinitely with an unquantifiable size. Effecting it doesnt give you a tier.
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- Muken is completely close from the outside world.
- The crumbling of Soul Society can be felt in the Muken.
Either Reiō created the Muken or converted the already existent Muken into Reishi and moved it to the Soul Society's dimensions where Kishi (matter) can't enter.
Make up your minds.
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We're going off of whats blatantly stated in-canon. Not our fault that something is inconsistent with Muken.
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It's not inconsistent. It's very clear that when you feel something "shaking" means that everything around you is shaking. Muken was shaking because is connected to Soul Society. Either way Reiō created "Reishi" and everything in Soul Society is made up of "Reishi" because Kishi (matter) can't exist in the Spiritual World. Reiō either created or converted Muken into Reishi for Muken to be located in "Soul Society" and I am not talking about Soul Society as a planet, but as a whole dimension with the stars, space and everything.
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If people wanna argue that Muken is a void of nothingness, I guess we should make a CRT for void resistance or whatever Aizen, Shunsui and co get for surviving there.
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You know we have a rule against this kind of thing right? Just like not every one and their mother gets infinite speed for being in a void.AnonymousBlank said:
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You know sarcasm is a thing right? If you wanna follow said rule, why are you arguing that Muken is an infinite void of nothingness. Pretty blatant cherry picking right there.
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