Bleach - Overall Additions

[Nanashi]

Yokoso minasan...

I'm coming here, today, to announce some interesting, but now so new changes I'm intending to help us organize some Bleach profiles better and have a better list of haxes for the characters that will benefit from this. Basically, I've done a Kidou page for the verse, introducing to the concept, explaining some details, explaning all the types of Kidou that actually matter for us and giving a list of all the Kidous, Bakudous and Hadous displayed during the series. But before reaching the climax, I'd like to explain somethings about what I'm pretending with this, why I did this, how this is gonna work/apply and what is going to change now.

• What I pretend with this?
  
  So, my intention with all this stuff is, basically, organize and give other resources to Bleach characters in general. Not going to lie here, the fact that anyone came up with this ideia and that anyone has done this before kinda annoyed me, since there were a lot of good matchups that could've been done if more Bleach characters had more info about what they could do. Well, I kinda overextended myself on this topic, but my main intentions are: organize and give more versatility for all Bleach characters that can use Kidou to a certain extent.

• Why have I done this?
  
  I saw that some Bleach characters needed some revisions and since I'm reading Bleach again, I decided to do this blog in order to organize better all the abilities that come from Kidou, because we're missing a lot of good stuff that could be added to a bunch of profiles. Thought this could be interesting and kinda necessary since other popular pages here like One Piece, for example, had a page explaning the concepts of Haki and all it's types, thus saving a lot of space on their profile which makes reading through their profiles to get some infos even better, because there'd be a dedicated page explaining those abilities in specific. And it's not like if we didn't have any reasoning/logic for something like that, so this is why I've came here to announce and evaluate my page, which you guys can see here right here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:M0rbeck/Kidou_(Bleach)​

• How the changes should be applied?
  
  Okay, having all my reasons for coming up with this, my suggestion with these changes is removing anything related to Kidou from the pages of those that actually use Kidous, since we have a dedicated page for the spells. The excepetion is for characters like Hachigen that fights using Kidous created by him, these type of Kidous should remain listed as techniques on their profiles, because they're not as general/ordinary as the other types. And I'm doing this to give characters like Unohana(just an example), that is always portrayed as a Kidou master, but hadn't had the opportunity to show the true extention of their fighting styles or Kidou usage. That's why this blog came to exist, to give these characters these general/generic abilities (yet powerful).
  
  
  
• What is going to change now?
  
  First, characters like Yamamoto, Unohana, Urahara, Aizen, Hachigen, Azashiro, Mayuri, Ukitake and Kyouraku, . Are able to use all the kidous from the page, despite each one being better in one specific thing (Like Unohana that is better with Kaidous), they're all master in the usage of Kidou, holding with them an excellent overall comprehension from all the types of spells due to their immense experience, having learned a bunch of different techniques during their whole life in Soul Society as a Shinigamis. In their profile it should look like this:
  
  
  
  
  
  Right on the blog I've mentioned some fellas that qualify for Specialist and Practitioner, I think it's pretty self-explanatory if you actually read the entire blog. But to summarize; speacialists can't use everything, they can't tap into Kidous that rank higher than #90 due to their lack of knowledge and experience over the spells. Now the practitioners, of course, are even more restricted in the usage, they can only perform low and mid-class spells, not being able to go past spells like Haien, since they still on the top of the iceberg when it comes to knowledge over the art, once they just know the basic stuff regarding it. To finish this, on the blog I've listed some characters that can be qualified as Specialists, some of them: Rukia, Kira, Matsumoto, Toshiro, Byakuya and Gin. Now for the regular practitioners we've Suì-Feng, Renji and Ōetsu.
  
  
  
• Now you met your end
  
  Now, to put an end to this CRT making my points even stronger, here are the battle charts from Unohana, Aizen, Yamamoto, Mayuri and Kyouraku, respective Kidou Masters:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  All them ranking the maximum rate possible in the respective battle charts.
  
  
  Now here we have the battle charts from Gin, Byakuya and Toshiro, respective specialists ranking 80~90 points (almost the maximum rate) on Kidou:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Last, but none less important, a regular Kidou practitioner, ranking 60 points on her respective battle chart:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  For characters like Zaraki, Komamura and et cetera, who didn't show any form of Kidou use, won't get benefited from the current blog.
  
  
• Well done everyone
  
  This was everything I had to declare, I'm bringin this topic up because I thought it was important to elaborate a discussion over to see if we can add some stuff and help Bleach a little bit more. I hope everything here is easy for to understand and any suggestion related to mistakes or possible additions to the blog are welcome. Let me know your opinion and let's discuss!

 

[Malekith]

I don't know if these graphics are accepted as support material here, and I also believe that to add kidou to certain characters not only this is enough, but they themselves demonstrate that they are capable of using it.

 

[Purgy]

I disagree with this, it's a massive assumption to give a bunch of characters almost every Kido in the verse without them demonstrating that they can use them or it being stated that they can.

 

[Deceived3596]

I disagree with this, it's a massive assumption to give a bunch of characters almost every Kido in the verse without them demonstrating that they can use them or it being stated that they can.

Awful argument, i don't care to explain why it's a bad argument rn since the kido blog in question shouldn't even be made into an actual page until a couple key things are changed/added, while it does have good foundations like nice explanations for the different types of kido, good tabbering etc.

The blog lacks essential things like scans and references for most abilities, something that's needed for new pages, especially references. So i'll have to disagree currently not because i disagree with characters scaling to kido which they haven't shown usage of yet but rather i disagree because the page doesn't match current standards for new profiles.

 

[Purgy]

Awful argument, i don't care to explain why it's a bad argument rn since the kido blog in question shouldn't even be made into an actual page until a couple key things are changed/added, while it does have good foundations like nice explanations for the different types of kido, good tabbering etc.

The blog lacks essential things like scans and references for most abilities, something that's needed for new pages, especially references. So i'll have to disagree currently not because i disagree with characters scaling to kido which they haven't shown usage of yet but rather i disagree because the page doesn't match current standards for new profiles.

You can't say awful argument and then not elaborate

How exactly is giving ten or so characters every Kido in the verse bar one a good idea? Having a high Kido rating in a databook doesn't mean they know every Kido, that's completely unfounded.

 

[Deceived3596]

You can't say awful argument and then not elaborate

I just did

How exactly is giving ten or so characters every Kido in the verse bar one a good idea? Having a high Kido rating in a databook doesn't mean they know every Kido, that's completely unfounded.

Nanashi completely butchered the argument ngl, those scans are supporting evidence to the main databook scan which states the higher numbered a kido is, regardless of it being a Hado or Bakudo, the harder it's to cast, which means someone who can cast Hado 90 would also inherently be able to cast Hado 30 since they can cast a higher numbered kido, which is harder to use and learn.

Also kido masters by definition would know kido's which they haven't shown because.... they are kido masters, it's literally in the name . Unless you want to assume people who've spent literal decades to centuries constantly training the art to the point of gaining mastery of it don't even have shit like Sho or Byakurai because they were never shown using both.

Those scans which Nanashi provide should've been used for purely scaling reasons, like if someone who has only shown kido's in the 30's but also has higher kido mastery compared to another person who can cast kido's in the 50's, we should scale that person who has only shown kido's in the 30's to the person who has shown usage of kido's in the 50's.

 

[Tyri456]

SS arc Shunsui has better speed stats than gin in that databook, might as well put top 2 espada > above gin speed if we count them.

 

[Nanashi]

Awful argument, i don't care to explain why it's a bad argument rn since the kido blog in question shouldn't even be made into an actual page until a couple key things are changed/added, while it does have good foundations like nice explanations for the different types of kido, good tabbering etc.

The blog lacks essential things like scans and references for most abilities, something that's needed for new pages, especially references. So i'll have to disagree currently not because i disagree with characters scaling to kido which they haven't shown usage of yet but rather i disagree because the page doesn't match current standards for new profiles.

Oh I see, not gonna lie that I didn't know about the standards for new profiles, where can I see them? Surely I can edit it to match the standards for new profiles. Finding scans and all that stuff won't be a problem so I just need to know what I have to edit there.

Edit: Oh, nvm I just saw the links there . I'll apply the necessary changes and once I'm done I'll be coming back here.

 

[Nanashi]

@Deceived Check it again when you can, put everything the blog was needing there (all the scans and references) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Deceived3596]

@Deceived Check it again when you can, put everything the blog was needing there (all the scans and references) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Looks good, but make sure to unbold the prefixes which come before some abilities like "Limited" or "Enhanced", only abilities can be bolded.

After that then you should be good.

 

[Damage3245]

I disagree with this, it's a massive assumption to give a bunch of characters almost every Kido in the verse without them demonstrating that they can use them or it being stated that they can.

I agree with this.

 

[Nanashi]

Looks good, but make sure to unbold the prefixes which come before some abilities like "Limited" or "Enhanced", only abilities can be bolded.

After that then you should be good.

Done.

 

[KillerNerd007]

Yokoso minasan...

I'm coming here, today, to announce some interesting, but now so new changes I'm intending to help us organize some Bleach profiles better and have a better list of haxes for the characters that will benefit from this. Basically, I've done a Kidou page for the verse, introducing to the concept, explaining some details, explaning all the types of Kidou that actually matter for us and giving a list of all the Kidous, Bakudous and Hadous displayed during the series. But before reaching the climax, I'd like to explain somethings about what I'm pretending with this, why I did this, how this is gonna work/apply and what is going to change now.

• What I pretend with this?
  
  So, my intention with all this stuff is, basically, organize and give other resources to Bleach characters in general. Not going to lie here, the fact that anyone came up with this ideia and that anyone has done this before kinda annoyed me, since there were a lot of good matchups that could've been done if more Bleach characters had more info about what they could do. Well, I kinda overextended myself on this topic, but my main intentions are: organize and give more versatility for all Bleach characters that can use Kidou to a certain extent.

• Why have I done this?
  
  I saw that some Bleach characters needed some revisions and since I'm reading Bleach again, I decided to do this blog in order to organize better all the abilities that come from Kidou, because we're missing a lot of good stuff that could be added to a bunch of profiles. Thought this could be interesting and kinda necessary since other popular pages here like One Piece, for example, had a page explaning the concepts of Haki and all it's types, thus saving a lot of space on their profile which makes reading through their profiles to get some infos even better, because there'd be a dedicated page explaining those abilities in specific. And it's not like if we didn't have any reasoning/logic for something like that, so this is why I've came here to announce and evaluate my page, which you guys can see here right here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:M0rbeck/Kidou_(Bleach)​

• How the changes should be applied?
  
  Okay, having all my reasons for coming up with this, my suggestion with these changes is removing anything related to Kidou from the pages of those that actually use Kidous, since we have a dedicated page for the spells. The excepetion is for characters like Hachigen that fights using Kidous created by him, these type of Kidous should remain listed as techniques on their profiles, because they're not as general/ordinary as the other types. And I'm doing this to give characters like Unohana(just an example), that is always portrayed as a Kidou master, but hadn't had the opportunity to show the true extention of their fighting styles or Kidou usage. That's why this blog came to exist, to give these characters these general/generic abilities (yet powerful).
  
  
  
• What is going to change now?
  
  First, characters like Yamamoto, Unohana, Urahara, Aizen, Hachigen, Azashiro, Mayuri, Ukitake and Kyouraku, . Are able to use all the kidous from the page, despite each one being better in one specific thing (Like Unohana that is better with Kaidous), they're all master in the usage of Kidou, holding with them an excellent overall comprehension from all the types of spells due to their immense experience, having learned a bunch of different techniques during their whole life in Soul Society as a Shinigamis. In their profile it should look like this:
  
  
  
  
  
  Right on the blog I've mentioned some fellas that qualify for Specialist and Practitioner, I think it's pretty self-explanatory if you actually read the entire blog. But to summarize; speacialists can't use everything, they can't tap into Kidous that rank higher than #90 due to their lack of knowledge and experience over the spells. Now the practitioners, of course, are even more restricted in the usage, they can only perform low and mid-class spells, not being able to go past spells like Haien, since they still on the top of the iceberg when it comes to knowledge over the art, once they just know the basic stuff regarding it. To finish this, on the blog I've listed some characters that can be qualified as Specialists, some of them: Rukia, Kira, Matsumoto, Toshiro, Byakuya and Gin. Now for the regular practitioners we've Suì-Feng, Renji and Ōetsu.
  
  
  
• Now you met your end
  
  Now, to put an end to this CRT making my points even stronger, here are the battle charts from Unohana, Aizen, Yamamoto, Mayuri and Kyouraku, respective Kidou Masters:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  All them ranking the maximum rate possible in the respective battle charts.
  
  
  Now here we have the battle charts from Gin, Byakuya and Toshiro, respective specialists ranking 80~90 points (almost the maximum rate) on Kidou:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Last, but none less important, a regular Kidou practitioner, ranking 60 points on her respective battle chart:
  
  
  
  
  
  
  For characters like Zaraki, Komamura and et cetera, who didn't show any form of Kidou use, won't get benefited from the current blog.
  
  
• Well done everyone
  
  This was everything I had to declare, I'm bringin this topic up because I thought it was important to elaborate a discussion over to see if we can add some stuff and help Bleach a little bit more. I hope everything here is easy for to understand and any suggestion related to mistakes or possible additions to the blog are welcome. Let me know your opinion and let's discuss!

Approved.

 

[Malekith]

Small mistakes aside, in my opinion I kind of agree about kidou since all shinigami go through the academy and are obliged to learn kidou to some extent. Now I don't know if on the wiki it can be accepted due to the fact that it is not demonstrated by most characters

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

You can't say awful argument and then not elaborate

How exactly is giving ten or so characters every Kido in the verse bar one a good idea? Having a high Kido rating in a databook doesn't mean they know every Kido, that's completely unfounded.

they aint call kido masters just cus they can use 1 kido out of 99....they are called masters cus they know and can use them all

unless u want to say that people like aizen and yamaji somehow dont know kido or that they only know 5

 

[Purgy]

they aint call kido masters just cus they can use 1 kido out of 99....they are called masters cus they know and can use them all

unless u want to say that people like aizen and yamaji somehow dont know kido or that they only know 5

"Master" doesn't have to mean complete knowledge/proficiency, rather it can and generally does mean just great proficiency/knowledge

And I'm like 99.999% sure that "Kido Master" is a fanfic term originating from the Bleach wiki, no canon media calls a character that as far as I remember

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

"Master" doesn't have to mean complete knowledge/proficiency, rather it can and generally does mean just great proficiency/knowledge

And I'm like 99.999% sure that "Kido Master" is a fanfic term originating from the Bleach wiki, no canon media calls a character that as far as I remember

so u saying people like aizen who are stated to have reach the limits in all shinigami category's are not masters?

people like urahara who can create new ones and can use up to 99 kido which, if i remember right they start teaching u kido 1, then they move to 2 and up they go 1 by one

so if a character can use up to 99 which is the limit of the known ones, they had to go from 1 to that 99

 

[Purgy]

so u saying people like aizen who are stated to have reach the limits in all shinigami category's are not masters?

Some how Aizen reached the limits in all Shinigami categories even though in the very same scans this thread uses as proof he's listed as a 90 out of 100 in speed and defense and an 80 out of 100 in stamina lol

He reached his own limits as a Shinigami and then surpassed them with the Hogyoku, but these are power limitations, not knowledge limitations, I don't doubt that any Shinigami including Aizen could use every single Kido if they had the knowledge of how to do so, the problem is that there's just no proof that they do have that knowledge.

people like urahara who can create new ones and can use up to 99 kido which, if i remember right they start teaching u kido 1, then they move to 2 and up they go 1 by one

so if a character can use up to 99 which is the limit of the known ones, they had to go from 1 to that 99

Scan for this part? And it's entirely reliant on the assumption that Kisuke learned every Kido he knows from the academy, which is blatantly wrong as he's aware of and able to use forbidden Kido such as Hado 99 as you pointed out, and they obviously wouldn't teach forbidden Kido there.

 

[Deceived3596]

Purgy i have a question, why is it such a massive assumption in your opinion that a character who knows higher numbered kido, which are objectively harder to learn comparative to lower numbered kido's, can't cast or doesn't have the knowledge on how to cast lower numbered kido's just because they haven't been shown to cast said lower numbered kido's?

I think you're misunderstanding how kido actually functions/is learned in the series but i'll explain that more in-depth after you answer my question above.

 

[Purgy]

Purgy i have a question, why is it such a massive assumption in your opinion that a character who knows higher numbered kido, which are objectively harder to learn comparative to lower level kido's, can't cast or doesn't have the knowledge on how to cast lower level kido's?

I think you're misunderstanding how kido actually fuction/is learned in the series but i'll explain that more in-depth after you answer my question above.

Because Kido spells aren't all used/activated in the same way...most of them have unique gestures, incantations and most likely variable ways of channeling Reiryoku in order to perform them, the character needs to know how to cast it, it's not as simple as saying that they know higher level techniques so therefore know all the lower ones as well.

Also, slightly unrelated to this comment but I noticed that Ichibe isn't mentioned anywhere in the OP even though he's by far the character with the most evidence for knowing every Kido

• Is renowned for his wisdom/knowledge and is over a million years old
• Literally named every Kido
• Things have power because of their names, thus in a sense, Ichibe is the direct reason that Kido spells even have power

Ichibe is about the only one I'll agree with until more evidence is presented for the others, though even Ichibe having them was rejected in the past so I doubt that'll go through either.

 

[Deceived3596]

Because Kido spells aren't all used/activated in the same way...most of them have unique gestures, incantations and most likely variable ways of channeling Reiryoku in order to perform them, the character needs to know how to cast it, it's not as simple as saying that they know higher level techniques so therefore know all the lower ones as well.

Thanks for responding, i'll respond to this later since i definitely disagree with the reasons you've laid out above. I honestly believe you'd require more assumptions so assume that someone who knows higher numbered kido wouldn't also know lower numbered kido as well.

 

[Nanashi]

Ichibe is about the only one I'll agree with until more evidence is presented for the others, though even Ichibe having them was rejected in the past so I doubt that'll go through either.

By the way, thanks for mentioning him! I've put him on the first drafts, but I completely forgot the man when doing the CRT. And of course the changes will be applied to him too, since he is also considered a Kidou Master and shown a great mastery when using some high-ranking Kidou, the best part is that he barely needs to use the incantings lol.

 

[Blallooo]

Honestly I think kidou masters should get more something like "potentially many others with kido" and a link to the kido page

 

[Nanashi]

Honestly I think kidou masters should get more something like "potentially many others with kido" and a link to the kido page

I guess that possibly, listed on the profile, for some of them should be fine, indeed.
Because they do have potential to use everthing, despite not showing it during the series. But for example, Kira (that can be considered a specialist) used even Kaidou, which is something that you normally you will see 4th Division using.

And this is probably because of the fact that @Malekith pointed here, almost all of them passed by a school who taught them these things. So it's based saying that these kidou users that have tons of experience in the soul society (Unohana and Yamamoto for example), can use pretty much anything. I think that possibly should be fine for those that haven't used kidous such as Kurohitsugi or Goryutenmetsu and et cetera. However, for characters like Aizen and Urahara, that can use it, I don't see why we cannot include this normally on their respective profiles, they were shown to be using the top-ranking hadous and bakudous from any classs without the need of incantings. It ends up being just like @Deceived said, it's not like characters like Aizen or Urahara cannot use a Byakurai or a Haien, they were obligated to learn this at the school and they used far more complicated kidous, that requires even higher spiritual energy control to use, without incanting it.

There's literally no reason for not accepting it, since the point itself is pretty logic and self-explanatory.

 

[Nanashi]

bump?

 

[Nanashi]

F Thread

 

[Overlord1]

I agree.

 

[Nanashi]

omega bump

 

[Nanashi]

bump

 

[Nanashi]

bump²

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Following

 

[Nanashi]

By the by. I think I'm gonna ask for the deletion of this post. Actually I wanted to rewrite it, with some better explanations.

Since I have more time in my routine now, I think I can work on something more refined.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

By the by. I think I'm gonna ask for the deletion of this post. Actually I wanted to rewrite it, with some better explanations.

Since I have more time in my routine now, I think I can work on something more refined.

Just an advice. You did a great job there but when you recreate it just do the Kidos with numbers as an Arguments. Because unauthorised Kidos are not really arguable for others to use it you can just put them on characters who actually used them. Not as common thing.

Anyway good luck with the work.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Following

I will read it soon and give my thoughts.

 

[Nanashi]

Just an advice. You did a great job there but when you recreate it just do the Kidos with numbers as an Arguments. Because unauthorised Kidos are not really arguable for others to use it you can just put them on characters who actually used them. Not as common thing.

Anyway good luck with the work.

Thank you, I'm gonna save your comment to use as a reminder.