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Bleach Acausality for aizen and yhwach

Reio35

Reio35

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So in the other thread yhwach was downgraded from type 2 acasuality because he could change even his own fate but in the description it says type 2 Acasual beings can change or control their own fate. "Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reason. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist" Yhwach is essentially choosing his own fate. I won't be getting into his other feats like being resistant to orhimes causality shield that were already excepted in other threads.

Now for aizen. Aizen is stated to transcend reason itself or causality entirely. We know that this is specifically talking about causality cuz it if you read the context of the translation it mentions aizen is above the kotosu a being who can control space-time and also a creature of reason. So space-time is basically the same as causality. So by aizen transcending reason he transcends causality. The kotosu is stated to have the power throw plp into different timelines. It even sent ichigo and his friends 8 days into the past. So its consistent. That being said i believe aizen should have type 1 or type 2 due to not being affected by the kotosu time hax which can affect the future or the past. Possibly type 5 due to transcending causality.
 
Type 2 just means they cannot be predicted due to not having a future, or they're unaffected by changes from the past or the future.
 
Neither of these are feats for Acausality Types 1, 2, 3, or 5, and probably not 4 either.

Yhwach's feat is not Acausality, that's just his Fate Manipulation, just being able to choose his own destiny isn't Acausality.

As for Aizen's part, before I state anything mind explaining this:
SmartSelect_20210331-223706_Brave.jpg

SmartSelect_20210331-223424_Brave.jpg

(Note: Early translations translated the Kototsu as "seimichio")
 
Considering I was the one who got the Acasuality removed, people already know what my answer is about this.

The answer's no. Yhwach effecting his own fate isn't even the main reason why the Acasuality was removed.
 
Massive disagree FRA. None of the above is Acausality. Type 5 is especially a massive stretch that I'm surprised was even considered for a Possibly.
 
TLDR choosing your fate does not = type 2 you need to exist only in the present and have no future nor past
Not knowledgeable on type 5 but it seems that it needs alot more evidence than just that
 
Everything12 said:
Neither of these are feats for Acausality Types 1, 2, 3, or 5, and probably not 4 either.

Yhwach's feat is not Acausality, that's just his Fate Manipulation, just being able to choose his own destiny isn't Acausality.

As for Aizen's part, before I state anything mind explaining this:
SmartSelect_20210331-223706_Brave.jpg

SmartSelect_20210331-223424_Brave.jpg

(Note: Early translations translated the Kototsu as "seimichio")
Click to expand...
I don't know were that scan is from. The one I used is straight from viz. Not to mention isshin said they were affected by it during the soul society.
 
Zencha9 said:
TLDR choosing your fate does not = type 2 you need to exist only in the present and have no future nor past
Not knowledgeable on type 5 but it seems that it needs alot more evidence than just that
Click to expand...
They soul king and yhwach were resistant to precognition and fate manipulation. However yhwach could control his own fate. Soul King and Yhwach were resistant to Orhimes causality shield which can reject past events.

So yhwach immune to past manipulation,future manipulations and causality. Which should give him type 2 at least
 
That just means they have resistance to fate and causality manipulation. Type 2 would require proof that they exist in neither the past nor future.
 
Planck69 said:
That just means they have resistance to fate and causality manipulation. Type 2 would require proof that they exist in neither the past nor future.
Click to expand...
I mean if your future can not be seen that would mean you don't have one.Ichibie saids the soul king is outside of the concepts of old and meaning the soul king does not exist in the past and in the novels it's said he existed before time itself. Then we have yhwach seeing all future timelines from high above this would imply hes beyond the future and does not exist in it. Not only that his future can not be seen with the almighty which can see all futures. That being said thats at least type 1 or 2 and for aizen type 1 at minimum for transcending causality.
 
Your future being unable to be seen is just resistance to precognition.

I'm fairly sure that we don't award characters that exist before time Acausality by default but I guess I'll see what staff have to say about that.

That bit about Yhwach is pure assumption.

That transcending causality bit is hella flimsy.

I personally still don't see what's acausal about any of this. You can see what others think I guess.
 
Reio35 said:
I mean if your future can not be seen that would mean you don't have one.Ichibie saids the soul king is outside of the concepts of old and meaning the soul king does not exist in the past and in the novels it's said he existed before time itself.
Click to expand...
Way to try and lie about what the novels were saying. It's almost painful how much you are trying to stretch it to mean what you want it to:

1. In the first link, Ichibei was going on about how only the name Reio matters, that it's there and is revered, in response to Kyoraku calling Yhwach the "new Reio". It doesn't imply that the Soul King itself is "outside of the concepts of old and new".

2. Tokinada was being reprimanded by his father for daring to ask what the world was like before the Soul King existed. As the third volume makes clear, time and the original world did exist long before the Soul King was born in response to the threat of Hollows. Again, it doesn't mean that the Soul King "existed before time itself".


Reio35 said:
Then we have yhwach seeing all future timelines from high above this would imply hes beyond the future and does not exist in it. Not only that his future can not be seen with the almighty which can see all futures. That being said thats at least type 1 or 2 and for aizen type 1 at minimum for transcending causality.
Click to expand...

3. Figures of speech don't translate to Yhwach being "beyond the future" and "does not exist in it". All he is describing how, in this allegory, a regular person can "change the future" by jumping from one grain of sand to another - by choosing one immediate possibility in front of them, and then another; then he compares it to himself, who is capable of seeing all possibilities, just as he later describes his power as the ability to "change" any of the possible futures he can see with "The Almighty".

Which is key to understanding "The Almighty" - it can see all future possibilities. If there is a future where an attack of his lands but is instead blocked in the present, he can "change the future" so the attack lands anyway; if he sees a possible future where he dies, and it happens in the present, he can alter it to one where he does not.

4. Not being able to see something's future does not mean the character in question is "acausal", in the case of Mimihagi and the Soul King. It merely implies they have an ability that can hide them from another being's precognitive abilities.

When it comes to Aizen himself, simply destroying Koutotsu does not mean for certain he "transcends causality", either. At best, it only means his power became great enough to affect and destroy Koutotsu.
 
Zencha9 said:
Can a 3D character even get Type 5? Because ive never seen one
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Oryx, the Taken King

Oryx, born Aurash and formerly known as Auryx (meaning "Long Thought"), is the God-King of the Hive and Taken. Being born as a mere Krill princess, she along with her sisters narrowly escaped a conspiracy set up by their mentor that resulted in the death of their father and subsumation of the...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Zencha9 said:
Can a 3D character even get Type 5? Because ive never seen one
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Stella Vermillion

Stella Vermillion is an A-rank Apprentice Knight and the second princess of the Vermillion Kingdom. After a misunderstanding, she dueled Ikki Kurogane and lost, subsequently accepting her defeat and later became his closest friend and ally. After numerous trials and tribulations, the duo would...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

EDITT: Bruh, she is type 4. Sorry
 
Zencha9 said:
Can a 3D character even get Type 5? Because ive never seen one
Click to expand...
Two fodders from Epic Seven (a game) are quite literally stated to exist outside of the system of causality.

mangaverse.fandom.com

Biblio and Biblica

Tier: Unknown Name: Biblio, Biblica Origin: Epic Seven Gender: Male, Female Age: Unknown (Exist in the Infinite Library, where time does not flow) Classification: Librarians of the Infinite Library Powers and Abilities: Mostly unknown, Acausality (Type 5, they are not connected to the world and...
mangaverse.fandom.com mangaverse.fandom.com

Only I'm doing the profiles in this wiki. I have screenshots for everything, I'll add them... eventually, when I have nothing better to do.
 
Last edited:
Reio35 said:
So in the other thread yhwach was downgraded from type 2 acasuality because he could change even his own fate but in the description it says type 2 Acasual beings can change or control their own fate. "Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reason. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist" Yhwach is essentially choosing his own fate. I won't be getting into his other feats like being resistant to orhimes causality shield that were already excepted in other threads.

Now for aizen. Aizen is stated to transcend reason itself or causality entirely. We know that this is specifically talking about causality cuz it if you read the context of the translation it mentions aizen is above the kotosu a being who can control space-time and also a creature of reason. So space-time is basically the same as causality. So by aizen transcending reason he transcends causality. The kotosu is stated to have the power throw plp into different timelines. It even sent ichigo and his friends 8 days into the past. So its consistent. That being said i believe aizen should have type 1 or type 2 due to not being affected by the kotosu time hax which can affect the future or the past. Possibly type 5 due to transcending causality.
Click to expand...
No
 
W0NDER3X said:
Two fodders from Epic Seven (a game) are quite literally stated to exist outside of the system of causality.

mangaverse.fandom.com

Biblio and Biblica

Tier: Unknown Name: Biblio, Biblica Origin: Epic Seven Gender: Male, Female Age: Unknown (Exist in the Infinite Library, where time does not flow) Classification: Librarians of the Infinite Library Powers and Abilities: Mostly unknown, Acausality (Type 5, they are not connected to the world and...
mangaverse.fandom.com mangaverse.fandom.com

Only I'm doing the profiles in this wiki. I have screenshots for everything, I'll add them... eventually, when I have nothing better to do.
Click to expand...
That would be at best Type 4, Type 5 requires very specific feats of pseudo-invincibility from being outside Causality to be obtained.
 
Everything12 said:
That would be at best Type 4, Type 5 requires very specific feats of pseudo-invincibility from being outside Causality to be obtained.
Click to expand...
Interesting interesting. Then I might have to look deeper. All I remember is that whoever saw them or talked to them after a while would forget they ever interacted.
 
That's just passive memory manipulation.

Anyway, this seems to have been rejected thoroughly so I think it can be closed.
 
Planck69 said:
That's just passive memory manipulation.
Click to expand...
Not really. It was in the context of their acausality.

The thing is, acusality type 4 already exists in the verse and it was described in entirely different manner. And now that I think about it, I can use the Eternal Scales to make a compelling argument for type 5.

Anyways, I love how quickly this turned into an off topic thread. Closing this is not necessary, you can just move it and call it good lmao.
 
Last edited:
I mean, that could just be higher Type 4. Type 5 has very strict requirements, which is why I disagreed so hard when seeing it on this thread.
 
Catalyst75 said:
Way to try and lie about what the novels were saying. It's almost painful how much you are trying to stretch it to mean what you want it to:

1. In the first link, Ichibei was going on about how only the name Reio matters, that it's there and is revered, in response to Kyoraku calling Yhwach the "new Reio". It doesn't imply that the Soul King itself is "outside of the concepts of old and new".

2. Tokinada was being reprimanded by his father for daring to ask what the world was like before the Soul King existed. As the third volume makes clear, time and the original world did exist long before the Soul King was born in response to the threat of Hollows. Again, it doesn't mean that the Soul King "existed before time itself".




3. Figures of speech don't translate to Yhwach being "beyond the future" and "does not exist in it". All he is describing how, in this allegory, a regular person can "change the future" by jumping from one grain of sand to another - by choosing one immediate possibility in front of them, and then another; then he compares it to himself, who is capable of seeing all possibilities, just as he later describes his power as the ability to "change" any of the possible futures he can see with "The Almighty".

Which is key to understanding "The Almighty" - it can see all future possibilities. If there is a future where an attack of his lands but is instead blocked in the present, he can "change the future" so the attack lands anyway; if he sees a possible future where he dies, and it happens in the present, he can alter it to one where he does not.

4. Not being able to see something's future does not mean the character in question is "acausal", in the case of Mimihagi and the Soul King. It merely implies they have an ability that can hide them from another being's precognitive abilities.

When it comes to Aizen himself, simply destroying Koutotsu does not mean for certain he "transcends causality", either. At best, it only means his power became great enough to affect and destroy Koutotsu.
Click to expand...
Shun ask is yhwach the new soul king in which Ichibie saids "the concepts of old abd new does not apply to the soul" Shun responds and saids so the power is in the name itself. So anyone sealed under the name soul king are not bound become the embodiment of the name which is does not have a concept of old and new cuz it's under the same name or existence. This alone should be Acasuality type 1 as their is not past associated with the name.

Aizen is clearly transcending causality. It states he transcends "the reason for things" or the cause for things. The kotosu is stated to be reason which controls space and time. Space and time being causality.
 
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